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The best ski/snowboard tuning in the nation - Page 2

post #31 of 50
Thanks for the reply Mike. I may be stopping into your Danvers store sometime this fall. I haven't really noticed any bad tendencies in my 10.20s and 11.20s (or maybe have adapted to them). I don't race, and only ski about 25 days a season, so I don't need a WCup tune. I had the older 10.20s hand tuned at the Starting Gate last season and didn't notice much of a difference. Other than that I do all my own tuning. But you've got a good sales pitch here, and I assume will get some more business from it.
post #32 of 50
25 days is alot for someone from the Boston area who works fulltime.

I try to get out at least 20 times a year or more but that is difficult sometimes.

Just because you don't race doesn't mean that you wouldn't appreciate an accurate tune. Mike might not put a crosshatch pattern or high fluoro wax on your skis for a non-race tune but he will take the same amont of time and care with every pair of skis.

Two years ago my wife and I purchased Volkls and we skied on them for a few days out of the wrapper. We took them back to Mike and had him do a tune. The difference was night and day. It was easier to roll the ski over, carve, stop, ski ice, and many other benefits.

We then bent both pairs of skis at the beginning of the season. We had Mike tune them again after we got the replacements. It was alot of money to have 4 $75 tunes in a few months but to us it was worth it.

To me a $65-$75 once a year maintenance fee on $800-$1000 skis is totally worth it. Why not have your skis perform the way they should?
post #33 of 50
Well, some of my days consist of 2-3 runs. If it's too cold or less than ideal conditions, I'd rather sit in front of the fire and watch the liftline or football game than be sitting on the chair freezing my arse off. That's not too many days for a full-timer with a place to stay every weekend...you gotta get out more buddy!
post #34 of 50
Thread Starter 
CP,
Ski racing does not do a great deal to serve the general skiing population, nor does it make money for the manufacturer. It only costs the factories money to be involved in racing.
Of course I do race preps, but the edge angles are all identical, and the physics of what the skis need to do for the driver are the same.
Precision Tuning Center is about better skiing, not ski racing. My experience with world class athletes and their needs, only serves to benefit the average skiing enthusiast.
Just like car companies with their race teams use knowledge from their sport and finds its way into the cars that people buy. Get the picture?
Mike
post #35 of 50
Any comment on factory tunes on Dynastar equipment? eg. course 66, omeglass? Any good or too variable to tell?
post #36 of 50
[quote=CP]Well, some of my days consist of 2-3 runs. If it's too cold or less than ideal conditions,

Cp you need to get out more. I was demoing Salomon skis at one of there Oasis Day's last Jan. "Oasis" yea, it was -29F But I demoed all the high end skis they had. It was great there was no waiting in line.
post #37 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CP
That's not too many days for a full-timer with a place to stay every weekend...you gotta get out more buddy!
I'm willing to put your ski place to good use. Where is it.

post #38 of 50
"Thanks for the reply Mike. I may be stopping into your Danvers store sometime this fall"

CP - I think Mike only operates out of the Framingham location. It's on Rt. 9, basically right at the entrance to Framingham State College. Definitely worth the longer trip, though.

Oh - and if you don't remember me Mike, you may remember my really, really beat up Dynastars that I came in with last fall (gouged, bent edge, no camber) and ended up replacing w/ Solly Scream Hots. :
post #39 of 50
You can drop off your skis at the Danvers store and they will drive them down to Framingham where the shop is.

They will then bring them back up after they are all tuned up.

I live right in town so both locations are the same distance from me.

Call Mike and see when he will be at the Danvers store because he tries to go up there now and then. If you like to talk about tuning and ski equipment you should meet him.
post #40 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE
Any comment on factory tunes on Dynastar equipment? eg. course 66, omeglass? Any good or too variable to tell?
BigE,
Dynastar makes awesome skis. Their factory prep is one of the best in the business. You know when it's not when the ski asks you for too much effort in the initiation phase of the turn. When a ski asks nothing of you, but gives you everything you want, that is what defines good preparation.
Mike
post #41 of 50
Thank you skidoc! I'm always leery of that first grind, ever since I detected a calibration error in an edge sharpening machine at the ski-shop we use. The machine would not sharpen the tip on one side of the machine. About 3 cm. Worse, they did not hand sharpen to fix the error! So I don't want to use them on a brand new pair, and I don't know where else to go. OTOH, I am investing in my own tools this year....
post #42 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidoc
BigE,
Dynastar makes awesome skis. Their factory prep is one of the best in the business. You know when it's not when the ski asks you for too much effort in the initiation phase of the turn. When a ski asks nothing of you, but gives you everything you want, that is what defines good preparation.
Mike
Skidoc

I agree with you. I've had great luck with the factory tune on all my Dynastar skis, and have had the same experience with my Fischers skis (RX8's) as well. Both pairs of my K2's were just the opposite out of the box. They performed terrible with the factory tune and were greatly improved after a shop tune.
post #43 of 50

Please tune my skis! You have opened my eyes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by skidoc
Every ski from beginner to racer, every powder ski, and every snowboard should be tuned the same. Base edge bevel between .5-1.0 degrees, side edge angle between 2-3.0 degrees. These angles allow for the effortless automated response skis and snowboards are designed to deliver. It also keeps them extremely stable, and predictable in all conditions.
Really? I have Spatulas. Should I have a race tune put according to your specs? May I mail them to you for a tune? I want to have the best carving performance possible on a 24" day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skidoc
Hey guys,
I was absolutely shocked and horrified at the plethora of misinformation out there. Not to mention the vast majority of ski service going on is actually more of a disservice to the skiing public. Shaped skis need a very high level of attention to edge and base surface tolerances, otherwise they WILL NOT deliver the goods to the driver, FACT. Poorly serviced shaped skis are a HAZARD, FACT.
Especially in the West where we have soft snow! Could you put a super tune on my Volkl Dragonslayers? I hear it's really important for the bump course. Please too for my K2 Fujatives. I need super sharp edges on those for the pipe and rails. It is vital to performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidoc
Skiers need to start realizing that "the tune sucks, it's not you" as opposed to "you suck it's not the tune."
Really? Is that why I suck?
post #44 of 50
Summit go post somewhere else and be a jackass.
post #45 of 50

Hey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalce
Summit go post somewhere else and be a jackass.
Why should I be a jackass? That would be mean. You're being mean. Stop it please.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

TECHNICAL TUNING QUESTION:
Situation: So in April I hucked a 40ft cliff and stuck the landing, ripped some powder 8s, then did a long traverse to get back inbounds, but at lower altitudes from our trek out there wasn't much snow. This required some special skiing:


Rest of that sequence: http://www.biglines.com/photos_large.php?picid=22758
http://www.biglines.com/photos_large.php?picid=22760
http://www.biglines.com/photos_large.php?picid=22761

That was my picture of my buddy (in Line Dragons). I was using Volkl Gotamas. We went back and did the whole thing three more times.
What sort of tune would you reccomend for that terrain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skidoc
Hey guys,
I see skis everyday with base edge bevels upwards of 10 degrees.
Wow... those shops should stop using trained orangoutangs to tune skis... also the orangoutangs should not smoke crack. Call PETA.
post #46 of 50
Summit,
If you had your skis set up right, we should be seeing a trail of cut grass behind you. Either that or your technique is all wrong!
post #47 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidoc
CP,

Of course I do race preps, but the edge angles are all identical, and the physics of what the skis need to do for the driver are the same.
Precision Tuning Center is about better skiing, not ski racing. My experience with world class athletes and their needs, only serves to benefit the average skiing enthusiast.
Respectfully speaking, you are talking out your hat. Tuning variations makes quite a difference in performance. Consider this (from Tognar):

"Racers and high-performance skiers and riders, however, may want to adjust the bevel more to suit their particular needs. A slalom racer, for example, might choose a 3 to 4 degree side and 0 to 1/2 degree base edge bevel for super sharp grip when making quick turns on an icy course. A giant slalom skier might stick with a 1/2 to 3/4 degree base edge bevel, but reduce the side edge bevel to 2 or 3 degrees so the skis glide fast, but aren't too grabby. Speed events such as Super-G and downhills usually dictate more base bevel and less side bevel. When Bill Johnson won the Olympic downhill years ago, his skis were tuned with a 4-5 degree base edge bevel and a slightly reduced side edge bevel...this provided the fastest possible speed for Johnson on a relatively flat, soft downhill course. By contrast, Tommy Moe won his Olympic downhill gold with only 1 degree of bottom edge bevel. This was dictated by the steep, icy conditions on the course in Norway."
post #48 of 50
Quote:
Of course I do race preps, but the edge angles are all identical
I think what Skidoc meant was that a one degree is a one degree is a one degree...regardless of whether it's a race tune or a recreational tune.
post #49 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat
Summit,
If you had your skis set up right, we should be seeing a trail of cut grass behind you. Either that or your technique is all wrong!
Didn't you notice the adjustable bindings? They appear to be set on "mulch":
post #50 of 50
Thread Starter 
[quote=Harry_Morgan]Respectfully speaking, you are talking out your hat. Tuning variations makes quite a difference in performance. Consider this (from Tognar):

"Racers and high-performance skiers and riders, however, may want to adjust the bevel more to suit their particular needs. A slalom racer, for example, might choose a 3 to 4 degree side and 0 to 1/2 degree base edge bevel for super sharp grip when making quick turns on an icy course. A giant slalom skier might stick with a 1/2 to 3/4 degree base edge bevel, but reduce the side edge bevel to 2 or 3 degrees so the skis glide fast, but aren't too grabby. Speed events such as Super-G and downhills usually dictate more base bevel and less side bevel. When Bill Johnson won the Olympic downhill years ago, his skis were tuned with a 4-5 degree base edge bevel and a slightly reduced side edge bevel...this provided the fastest possible speed for Johnson on a relatively flat, soft downhill course. By contrast, Tommy Moe won his Olympic downhill gold with only 1 degree of bottom edge bevel. This was dictated by the steep, icy conditions on the course in Norway."[/QUOTE

Harry, I can't dispute what you say because I can't prove it for sure. You see I try not to make a habit out of "talking out of my hat," and Jack from Tognar spent the afternoon in my race room, which is where I explained to him my low variable approach. This approach came to me as I learned more and more from my World Cup experience and helping Hilary Lindh achieve her level of success. Suffice to say, I believe I over-beveled her skis and actually kept her from doing as well as she could have. If I could do it all over again I would have set her base bevels with a ceramic disc somewhere around .5-1.0 degree regardless of conditions. Too much bevel on speed skis can keep them from tracking properly and actually slow them down. If an athlete has 10 different pair of skis with varying base bevels, that would require them to drastically change their technique every time they got on a different pair. In my opinion this would not be a good thing. What I can tell you for sure is that Katja Seizinger's tech Gunther Dorfner, would send me her skis to put my speed grind on, not all, but some. He would then proceed to base file .5 degree of base edge bevel on every single pair of her skis regardless of the event. The only variation on her skis was a 2 degree side edge for all speed skis and 3 degree for technical skis. This preparation, besides her amazing talent is what made her in my opinion the best female DH skier in the world. God knows she definitely has the Globes to prove it. If you don't believe me I would be happy to give you my good friend Gunther's phone #.
The reality is that things change over time as a result of testing, and I would bet my shorts that it would be an extremely rare occasion that one would ever find 3-4 degree of base bevel on any World Cup athlete's speed skis today. I know Burntski use to say he did it for Edie Thys. But trust me when I tell you she was far from being a world beater when she was on Dynamic. I know, I was there.
When I say "identical" I'm ultimately referring to principal. I admit that I'm guilty of tuning Chris and Paul Casey Puckett's tech skis to 5 degree of side edge angle, and Heidi Voelker's to 8 degree. She finally relented and found 3 degree to be just right. These angles are something I would only recommend for the strongest of athletes, as severley acute side edge angles create enormous amounts of instablity when the ski becomes tipped on edge. How do I know that? By actually giving other athlete's on the USST Heidi's skis to test, and their feedback was that they "royaly sucked!" I generally don't tend to mention these things because these edge applications are so rare.
Bill Johnson was a unique talent that functioned more on sheer will than technique. His personality type allowed him to overcome many obstacles in his way, like Klammer. I would be willing to bet his 3-4 degree of base bevel was just one more obstacle that he was able to overcome to win the Gold. I would also be willing to bet if Herman Maier's tech gave him 3-4 degree of bevel, he would rip him a new AH. However, that is just speculation.
Respectfully,
Mike
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