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help!! how thin an edge??

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
Hi all,

I have a pair of crossmax skis i purchased this season. Ihave
sharpened the edges a total of 3 times so far this season. It seems
that my edges are very thin compared to when i first bought the
skis(edges with bases facing up).
I have also compared the edges with my wifes brand new crossmax 7`s
and her edges look much beefier than mine.

I have had my skis tuned at three different places but never
noticed this before last night so i cannot pinpoint which place has
been butchering the edges.How many sharpening should a ski normally be able to take before it is considered junk? How little an edge can i ski on before it becomes too thin to use?

Brand new edge was around 1/16 wide . It is now approximately half
that. At this rate my skis should last me another 3 sharpenings!!???
What is up with that!

I am definitely gonna learn how to tune my own skis.

Thanks for all responses.
NICK
p.s. If anyone knows a good shop in the MONTREAL or LAVAL area,
please let me know..
post #2 of 8
While never having actually dealt with it first hand (I hand tune all my own stuff), I have heard some terrible stories about over zealous shop-rats removing a lot of edge in the interests of finishing quickly. A good edge sharpen shouldn't remove even half of what you are saying was removed each time, so my guess is one or more of the ski shops ground off way too much. Sharpening, like skiing, is about finesse rather than strength, you shouldn't need any considerable pressure at all to shave a nice sharp edge. If you are using pressure that tires your hands at all, you are probably pushing too hard too hard and removing too much material. Jsut think that the file is doing the cutting, not your arms, and keep that in mind.

Definalty get some nice stuff and tune them yourself. In all honesty, you probably won't save any money (assuming for no particular reason that you are like me) because once you start getting the basic tuning gear, other implements of ski preparation will strike your fancy and you will pick them as well, but it is a nice feeling to know you are in complete control over all aspects of your ski's, and therefore your skiing as a whole's, wellness. I on the other hand actually make just enough cash to buy myself new wax by tuning all my freinds' skis and snowboards for around five bucks each.

As for how much edge you can still stand to lose, I would say NO MORE if they were my skis. If I were you, I'd get the gear, practice on a pair of rock skis, (it's worth picking a pair of junkers up at a pawn shop for practice until you get a good feel for tuning) and use a delicate touch. As for how delicate, the story of the princess and the pea comes to mind in terms of delicateness.

Just my 2 cents worth, with a few nickels thrown in for good measure.

EDIT:grammar

[ March 20, 2003, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: Karsten Hain ]
post #3 of 8
Sounds like someone is really grinding your edges. Are you measuring from the outside edge of the base (inside of the edge) to the outside of the edge?
post #4 of 8
By “sharpening” do you mean you had the bases ground?

A friend of mine went to a demonstration by Wintersteiger (company producing stone grinding machines) of one of their robotic machines. As part of the demonstration the operator intentionally incorrectly programmed the machine and it removed the whole base in one pass through it! Fortunately those circumstances are unlikely to occur in real life, but many years ago I did have a lot of base removed by an over-zealous operator. These days I am very particular where I take my skis and specify precisely how I want the grind done, the structure I need, etc etc.

Once the base is gone there is nothing you can do about it, however in normal circumstances you should get many grinds from a pair of skis. Having said that, they shouldn’t need to be ground too often, and hand tuning the edges will ensure you get more life from your skis, and arguably produces a better result.

Regarding how thin the edge can be, I guess that depends on where you are skiing. I've watched Japanese racers file their edges (side, not the base you're talking about) to almost the thickness cardboard. Even then, that process took 2 years of filing every day. However if they hit a rock with an edge that thin it would probably be toast instantly.

Cheers,

Pete
post #5 of 8
What Karsten said.
Quote:
Brand new edge was around 1/16 wide . It is now approximately half
that. At this rate my skis should last me another 3 sharpenings!!???
What is up with that!
Yeah, they've been butchered all right. Even good shops will occasionally do this. You now have the choice of selling them now and buying something on special,(not really that bad a choice actually), or treating them like race skis. You cannot have the side edges done by machine again!!! Plus, when doing them yourself you need to avoid the file as much as possible.

Remove burrs with diamond stone and try to get away with as little filing as possible. This means if you hit a rock, you will have a gash. Just smooth it out with the diamond and possibly -very- light filing but you pretty much just leave it. That's good practice in general anyway. Also, make sure to use ski straps when transporting them so as not to wreck the bases and edges partic. in the car.

It's interesting, the Head slalom skis I got last year had some of the widest edges I've ever seen on a consumer race ski. (looking at the bottom, not side) Their race dept skis have half that size edge.
post #6 of 8
Thread Starter 
-- Sounds like someone is really grinding your edges. Are you measuring from the outside edge of the base (inside of the edge) to the outside of the edge?--



Assuming the ski is upside down and the bases facing you ,the width of the edge seems very thin, meaning someone butchered the sides of the edges. If you are looking at the ski from the side (base flat on a bench )the edge thickness seem to to be o.k. , but i guess this is what you meant

should this affect the performace of the ski?
post #7 of 8
As far as performace and edge-hold go now, you are probably alright, and I doubt the loss of edge makes any difference at all, but like Tog said, if you hit a rock and take out a little chunk of edge, rather than trying to sharpen it away, just smooth aruond it and pretend you dont notice it. You wont feel the difference.

I have about 1/4" worth of edge length on one edge of one of my atomics that have a deep gouge from hitting another ski after following a freind closely who double ejected and running over one of his skis (sadly unavoidable) but I just smoothed around it and rather than sharpening off half my edge thickness for what amounts to an imperceptible increase in edge hold, I just realize it won't make a difference. I still sometimes put that ski though so the nicked edge is on the outside.
post #8 of 8
Karsten and Co provided good advice regarding blowing a chunk out of an edge. I have a section of edge missing from my rock skis from (here's a surprise) hitting a rock. I have marked the top cap so which edge is missing is indicated and that is my outside edge. I don't notice the difference on the outside, on the inside I do notice the missing edge on hard pack and ice.

Ski edge 'sharpening' should be more of a honing versus a grinding off of the steel. Some people do pressure ski techs to have their skis perfect after a tune up. Rather than fill gouges some techs have been no to grind off material to satisfy the demand for perfect skis.

It is technically possible to replace edges, but I wouldn't be tempted to try it.
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