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Ski Boot Changes?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I'm looking to get some new boots this year, something in the range of the Lange 130/ Doberman/ Icon XT etc.

Without the background of it, I need to know what boot fits me best and what size before August 20th, and It's likely the shops wont have 04-05 stuff in.

On the same model boot, does anything change from year to year except the graphics? I don't expect to have too much done to my boots except a footbed, maybe a liner stretch.

So I guess the first question is, can I shell size last years model then buy that size boot in the 04/05 and expect the same fit?

2nd Question: Is it better to get the footbed done before or after I get the boot or doesn't it matter? My logic on this is if I get the footbed done and it doesn't fit into the liner, I need the liner to be stretched or a different boot/size.
post #2 of 21
In the Dobie and Lange, you're probably safe going with the same shell size as last year. For Tecnica, the Icon XT has been completely replaced with the Diablo Race Pro (130 or 110) where the last is entirely different, resulting in a much different fit and feel to the boot. However, having said that, you could shell size the XT and order the same size in the Diablo - size wise you would be okay, but just realize that the fit of the Diablo would be more forgiving in some places and more intense in others.

I would recommend that you buy boot & footbed together if you are changing brands. Your other option is to buy the boot first (but shell size it with an old footbed to account for differences in length of your feet with a footbed) and then get a reputable boot fitter to work on it/build your foot bed.
post #3 of 21

I see that you are interested in top of the line race models. This is a category where very few changes are made from year to year. But 2005 is different, at least for some manufacturers.
I have no info about '05 Lange race models, but i can help you with Nordica and Tecnica.

For 2005 Nordica introduces two new models in their race line: the Doberman Pro 130 and Pro 110. These 2 models have a new last which is 3mm wider in the forefoot than the WC last. The Pro 130 and the Pro 110 have a flex index of 130 and 110 respectively.
Nordica also has the Doberman WC 150. Out of the three models, only the Pro 110 has extrasoft polyether. I don't know if it is supposed to replace the WC XS i don't think so because it doesn't use the WC last anymore (the WC XS was the model i was interested in about a month ago).
It seems that the Pro 130 and Pro 110 use a different liner that the WC 150.
In my opinion these are the main changes for next season in the race line (there may also be smaller changes but you have to look for them yourself).

Here are some links that you may find useful:

For next season, Tecnica makes significant changes in their top line which is now called Diablo. The XT is replaced by the Diablo Race Pro 130 (XT24) and Race Pro 110 (XT17). The Race Pro has a new last which is optimised for two footed skiing. This is probably the most important change in the line. The last is still low volume with a bit more space in the forefoot. The boot has increased forward lean and a lower ramp angle. The boot also has 3 Density Technology which uses 3 different types of plastic to wrap your feet better and in the right place (for example soft plastic at instep).
I also liked the velcro strap which probably closes the cuff better. The liner uses a neoprene toe box for comfort.
There are also many more changes but again you have to look for them yourself.
Chech out this link:

1. I don't think that it is a good idea to try on '04 models and then buy directly the '05 model (are you trying to buy the '05 model online?). Just to give you an example: Nordica for 2005 which now offers the Pro 110. The closest boot from last season is probably the WC XS. The XS has a different last (remember 95mm vs. 98mm) and a different flex index which is close to the Pro 110 (100 vs. 110) so i don't think that you should shell size and buy the '05 model in the same size directly because it may not fit you feet so well.

Tecnica also changed the last of the race boot but i have no info whether it is roomier or not. All i know is that it is still considered low volume and it has a roomier forefoot. But the problem is the last itself. I don't know if it accomodates the Tecnica foot anymore. I have a pair of XT 17s which fit me perfectly but i haven't tried the new boot yet. You say that you need to know what to buy by August 20th. I emailed my local shop and asked about the Race Pro. They said (among other things) that the boots will be in stock starting from October 15th...
I don't know exactly if you plan on getting your boots online or not(at least this is what i understood from what you had written) knowing how the previous model fits but you should try the boot on at all cost, otherwise it's too risky in my opinion.

2. From what i know it's best to have the footbeds with you when you try on the boots. You should go to a reputable shop to get the footbeds done and they should take care of the other problems too.

I hope this helps,
post #4 of 21
Thread Starter 
Wow... thanks for the detailed posts.

I'll have to stop in my local shop and see whats up, sounds like the Dobie WC isn't changing (don't need the wider forefoot I don't think....), and I'm not sure about Lange, I would guess they're the same so the only different one would be technica.

The reason I'm trying to do this is I'm going to be a freshman in college this fall. Now, I can get a race deal with my High school race team or a race deal with my college team. The race deal with my HS team is in late august/ early september (after I'm at school).

My hope was to get my boots fitted and then have my parents go to the race night for me while I'm at school.

One more question about the dobermans. What is the difference in naming between the retail and plug boots? Are the S and XS retail or plug? Is WC the entire name or is it WC S and WC XS?? I've decided not to go plug this time, I have poor circulation anyway I don't need to be losing toes...
post #5 of 21
the shell on the lange 130 is unchanged, the boot has an upgraded "race" liner with the new custom air liner for improved fit and warmth. your dealer may have some in stock now.
post #6 of 21

From what i know the Dobie WC Soft and XS are "plug" boots (these boots generally need grind work to make them fit).
Here is a link to plug boots to confirm this:

On the other hand, the Pro 130 and Pro 110 have a slightly wider last (especially in the forefoot area) to accomodate more feet. So these boots are regular race models. But you said that you don't need the wider forefoot so i guess they are out of the equation.

post #7 of 21
Thread Starter 
Question:::What was the retail dobie called last year then?

EDIT1: Found the 130 K (KIT) on their site, the one I remember seeing that has 2 different cuffs, and also the 140 Foam. I doubt my shop has the 140s and they're probably too stiff for me anyway (I only weigh 155lbs).

Question:::What is the difference between the KIT and the Low Fit 130s?

EDIT2:Sorry to keep bombarding these questions but Lange shows 'ultimate fit concept' and 'injection fit concept'.

They say that the Ultimate Fit Concept is:
" New from Lange is the development of the extra thin liner preferred by athletes. Pockets in FLO material in the ankle area - Thermo fleece upper - Integrated spoiler to increase forward lean."

And the Injection Fit Concept is:
" Competition experience has made it possible to create an innovative injected liner, derived directly from the UFC. Exclusive FLO material combined with a small quantity of injected “foam” material provides excellent sensitivity and ensures precise custom fitting which is particularly soft in the ankle area. Very fast injection times"

Question:::About the injeciton fit: do you think it would make the boots pack out more quickly? They're marketing the IFC as better than UFC (its only in the KIT model and the 140) but what do you think?

Thanks for all the help guys, my first time doing a really serious boot purchase by myself and I'm trying to get it perfect.
post #8 of 21
Kit 130 came with two cuffs and the ultimate liner, for extra money you could get the injection (foam) liner. the injection liner will not pack out as much as a ultimate liner IMHO.
the 130 and 140 are still available. be aware that you can also get the Lange plug boot from you local race dealer in 3 diferent flexes so your weight shouldn't be an issue.
also be aware that the 120/130/140 have replaceable toe and heel plates to get the max height allowed by FIS whereas the plug boot will have risers to screw on the soles which then have to ground to meet DIN standards (PITA if no shops around you do it)
post #9 of 21

About a month ago i was very interested in the Doberman WC XS, which will be replaced more or less with the Pro 110 for the '05 season. I gathered as much info as i could about the XS. I am a little dissapointed that it will be replaced and the remaining WC boot has a flex index of 150 and i don't know if i can flex it. So i was interested only in "plug" type boots. I don't know exactly what was the retail Doberman called last year. I think it was Doberman only without WC and had a flex index of 130 (if memory serves me right). If i don't remember exactly someone please correct me.

post #10 of 21
Originally Posted by Proneax
Question:::What was the retail dobie called last year then?
I think that the whole concept of the Dobermann (before this coming year) was that it was a real "plug" boot that was available to retail buyers.

Now that it's developed a bit of a "name," so to speak, Nordica is trying to take advantage of it by offering a more typical "retail" (non-plug) version, which is what the "Pro" line is supposed to be.

Anyway, that's my impression. It could be wrong.
post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 

says that there will still be the wc line from last year.

sjjohnston: ok, somehow I got the idea that they had retail and plug versions, but now I get it.
post #12 of 21

If they keep all the models in the Doberman line from last year, this is good news, but the problem is that on the official website, the only WC boot is the Doberman WC 150. The other models are the new Pro 130 and Pro 110. So i don't know what to expect. If the WC XS is available for the '05 season, this is great. It is hard to believe that they show only some of their race models... Other manufacturers Rossi for example, show all their models in the top line. At least this is what they did last season and the season before.
Anyway you could send them an email or to a good shop who has these models and see what they say.

post #13 of 21
Most manufacturers don't list their full-on race-stock (plug/non-retail/whatever you want to call 'em) models on their web sites. As you'll note on that GMOL site, a number of manufacturers produce a race-stock model that they don't quite publicly acknowledge even exists ... in some cases they paint the race-stock version to "disguise" it to look like the generally-availabel retail boots.

I guess in part, this has to do with the different needs and requirements of top-level racers, who (among other things) aren't put off by needing to have a boot fitter do a ton of work in order to get the things not to kill their feet. Generally, that wouldn't go over real well with the broad, buying public ... even if there were enough experienced boot fitters around to customize heavily thousands and thousands of boots a year.

Also, I doubt a racer who's skied on pretty much the same boots for a decade would be real excited about suddenly wearing an entirely different boot, just because his sponsor decided to redesign the retail model.

Anyway ... so far as I can tell ... the Dobermann started out as a sort of experimental exception on Nordica's part: a model they actually acknowledged existed, and you could buy in a ski shop (some ski shops, anyway), that was approximately the same as what they supply to top racers (which, AFAIK, is also pretty darn close to a Nordica model of ancient lineage, namely the Grand Prix).

It looks like they're now, essentially, extending the "cred" attached to the Dobermann model name by created a more retail-friendly "Pro" line. The fact that their web site only mentions the two "Pro" versions and the "WC 150" doesn't necessarily mean that the other race-stock versions have vanished. They may just have gone into the same sort of low-visibility mode as the Lange race stock boot.
post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
Called my shop they have the lange 120 not the 130 and the RL1 (hmm...plug...maybe)
Also have the Diablo pro 130/110 and the Doberman Pro 130/110 (maybe the XS too he wasn't very clear about it and I didn't have time to clarify).

So maybe I'll get in the shop next week and get fitted. The guy said I should get the boots fitted then have the footbed done.
post #15 of 21
i hope he meant try the boots on, then get the footbed, then get the boots fitted(ground usually in a lange)
fwiw i skied the rossi and the lange plug boots last winter and they both worked well. by the end of the season i was in the 120 low volume(a little more volume than the plug which equals warmer with a foam liner in my case)
post #16 of 21
if you have a pretty narrow foot and dont mind to sacrifice a little comfort and warmth for performance the doberman is the best i ski it
post #17 of 21
Hey Proneax,

RL1 and Doberman 150 in stock now.
post #18 of 21
Stop screwing around online, hop in your car go see PJ @ racestock sports. (90 east to 87 north, exit 20.....)
Honestly, he'll set you up right. Last season he put my super wide, extra fat, size 8.5-9 mens foot into a Dobie that was a size 5. Most agrresive, custom set-up you can imagine. I have never had a better RACE boot. This thing turns before your done thinking about it & it is completely comfortable. He added custom footbeds & heat as well.
My only caution, be certain of what you want & be honest with yourself. This season, I'm going to have PJ build me up an all-mtn boot for 8am to 5pm+ skiing. I'll save the Dobie for race camps & race day.
post #19 of 21
Too bad my boyfriend is not close to this racestock sports store...he says that his boots hurt his feet. He also says that his calfs/ankles are too big. I think he is in the market for a wider/more comfortable boot this winter. I am going to try and get ahold of a ski magazine. I used to subscribe (not sure if they're still coming...).
I'll mention the Dobie to him. It sounds like something that might work out. I just think he needs to get to a store and try some different boots on
post #20 of 21

more comfortable

I don't think I would recommend the Doby as a wider more comfortable boot unless you are also going to recommend getting on a plane and flying to a shop that can make this happen. Certainly the Doberman can be comfortable and this boot rips but it is narrow (out of the box) and is an aggressive ski boot.

Lilskeer: there is a guy in DC named Brian Eardly who does good work. I forget the name of the shop but it is fairly close to WV (West Virginia?) Skip the ski mag and just go find a good technician.
post #21 of 21
Thanks for the info. Don't want a narrow boot.
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