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INTERSKI Japanese Demo

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
The following video clip is from 2003 Interski:

http://www.slope8.com/jn/InterSki.mpeg


I do not understand what the Japanese is trying to achieve or promote this way of carving a turn (total rotation of the upper body).

Does anyone know?
post #2 of 17
As Mr. Smart said, "The economy in Japan has been bad and they're trying to get more people skiing." There's nothing like wearing two different length skis and using upper body rotation to freshen up a sport, eh?

*I have heard that wearing two different length (short and shorter) skis is an excellent exercise.
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo
As Mr. Smart said, "The economy in Japan has been bad and they're trying to get more people skiing." There's nothing like wearing two different length skis and using upper body rotation to freshen up a sport, eh?

*I have heard that wearing two different length (short and shorter) skis is an excellent exercise.
I did hear what Mr. Smart said, but I do not notice the difference in ski length in this particular section of their demo.

Besides, using upper body rotation to initiate a turn is contrary to everything we have learned so far.
post #4 of 17
I should have been clearer. It appears to be a gimmick to gain consumers that is not reflected in the free skiing of the Japanese demo team.

The fact is, good skiers ski alike despite their nationality's official ski technique, but sales and marketing rely on product differentiation. If my market is telling me, "Oh, skiing, I've tried that and been bored," I might be tempted to make skiing appear "new and exciting" to revive their interest. I believe ultimately this is a bait and switch strategy, with later emphasis on disciplined movements, including those of the upper body.
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
Nolo,

I can see you might explain it that way especially when you hear in the video clip that Steve Smart mentioned about the bad Japanese economy etc.

But I think it is more than that. In fact, there were a few ATOMIC video productions last year that I saw with the Japanese demo skiing like that. Since I don't understand Japanese, I did not understand the commentary in those videos.

I believe they are trying to experiment something and not as a gimmick to lure new market.

For a never ever skier, teaching him in a way which is completely contrary to the accepted principles makes no sense. Besides, their parents and friends are all 'good' skiers. Japanese are very disciplined. All skiers take lessons and they never ski sloppily.

Japanese skiers are very knowledgeable about the technical aspects of skiing, and much more so then the general U.S. skiers.

For a small country, Japan has over 600 ski resorts. Yes, 600 big or small !
I will say that with the young people, over 50% ski or ride. And I was in Japan skiing just this past season and the resorts were very full.
post #6 of 17

Well...

...it may be "bad" skiing, but it looks pretty fun.

Is that allowed?

Bob
post #7 of 17
I guess losing a ski in deep pow ain't that bad after all
post #8 of 17
I guess that's one way to make it ok to ski from the back seat...is it me or were most of the turns done from the feet back to the tail?
post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
Any Interski members that can answer this 'technique' that the Japanese is demoing?
post #10 of 17
Illustrates well the development of the technique many skiers use. ie., ski in the backseat, cannot turn, throw upper body around, now can turn!
post #11 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oisin
Illustrates well the development of the technique many skiers use. ie., ski in the backseat, cannot turn, throw upper body around, now can turn!
That's cute.
post #12 of 17
Sorry. I hadn't meant my comment to be cute. What I described is simply a progression I've observed many times in self taught skiers and those who were led to terrain beyond their ability by well meaning friends and thereby forced to devise some means for their own survival. Its a common fault that instructors are faced with frequently. Understanding the sequence of its development offers insight into possible remedies. I thought the demo was pretty good!
post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oisin
Sorry. I hadn't meant my comment to be cute. What I described is simply a progression I've observed many times in self taught skiers and those who were led to terrain beyond their ability by well meaning friends and thereby forced to devise some means for their own survival. Its a common fault that instructors are faced with frequently. Understanding the sequence of its development offers insight into possible remedies. I thought the demo was pretty good!
This is done by the Japanese at Interski 2003. I don't think it is intended to show how not to initiate a turn.

As I have mentioned earlier in answering Nolo, that there were a few ATOMIC video productions last year that I saw with the Japanese demo skiing like that.
I believe they are trying to do something or new way for the beginners to get the sensation of carving.
post #14 of 17
There is a belief afoot in other countries that "counter" (or "strong inside half" or "inside half lead") is no longer necessary with "shaped" skis. Back at Easter 2001, I was teaching a group of kids a countering drill in Zermatt, and had a Swiss instructor come up to me saying "no, zat is wrong, with ze modern skis ze shoulders must point in ze direction of ze skis at all times". Maybe this weird Japanese stuff is just this belief taken to ridiculous extremes. To me it just ends up looking like France's "la rotation" of yesteryear, but with some carving thrown in...
post #15 of 17
I was told that the rotation does go away by the end of the progression.

It's original presence is to avoid negative movements. I mean, does that demo skier ever look like he wants to "go there" or what?!
post #16 of 17
All,

We are all so caught up in the right way to ski that when we see people using movements that are 'wrong' we tend to have a negative reaction to it. Upper body rotation has been looked on as wrong for so long that the initial reaction to seeing someone use it is "oh no, what can they be thinking". Well what they are thinking is "hey, this move creates a turn and it is an interesting and fun sensation". With the right subjects I've gotten very high level skiers to throw away their poles and rotate and bank their turns. Guess what, in a few runs they are dragging their hands on the snow through their turns and stopping to laugh out loud because skiing hasn't been so fun and silly for years if ever. Even with more uptight types I have managed to get them to take less counter to the extreme of 'negative counter' or allowing a little rotation into the turn just to see how it affects the outcome of the turn. Even these folk came away with the willingness to play with skiing much squarer to the skis than they did before.

The Swiss I know have played a lot with this and it was through an ex Swiss demo team member that I was first introduced to the idea of skiing with movements of the large body parts. Don't knock it untill you try it. Like Bob Peters said it looks like fun and guess what it is.

yd
post #17 of 17
Thread Starter 
ydnar,

Good point.
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