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post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
This weekend I learned some lessons about my bindings and as a result I have a few questions. I was training on Saturday for a recreational Super G and pre-released out of my Marker MRR SC binding on some chatter right in front of the coach. He said it was a definite pre-release and that the forward pressure needs to be increased. Should I also increase the DIN? (When I bought bindings for a pair of slalom skis this year I would have normally bought Markers but heeded the knowledge base on this site and eliminated them from consideration).

Because I did not have time to take the bindings to a shop and didn't have tools, I decided to race Sunday on my Atomic Beta Ride 10.20's with RaceRace 614 bindings (the snow was soft). We had a training run which went fine. For the race, I tried for an explosive start and came right out of my binding. I later duplicated this while I had my wife and a friend watch to confirm I didn't step on my skis. I had the bindings tested at the chart DIN and they were fine. Looks like these need to be cranked up a notch or two. Should I just go up one chart setting?

For those of you saying I should be on Look bindings, a friend also pre-released on a pair of this year's Look Pivots.
post #2 of 17
Racing is a few levels above the setting chart level 3. Therefore, it is recommended that the DIN be increased a number of points for racing.

As to pre-releasing, there are a number of factors which could have caused the ski to come off. Riding the inside ski and knocking the outside ski back ontot he snow is a surefire way to go mono skiing.
post #3 of 17
Race 614 has a pretty weak forward pressure spring. If you are 170lb or more and race on rough courses, get yourself Race 1018 and all your binding troubles will be over.


Speed does not kill, the difference in it does...
post #4 of 17
If you can pop out of the heel practicing your starts then crank the bindings up one release setting. Then try your start again maybe 3 or 4 times. If you release then crank the setting up one more, if not don't.

Forward pressure affects the toes on the Markers. Ask your coach about how to set that.<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by NordtheBarbarian (edited March 19, 2001).]</FONT>
post #5 of 17
>>Forward pressure affects the toes on the Markers. Ask your coach about how to set that.<<

Its my understanding that foward pressure affects the toes on *all* modern bindings.
post #6 of 17
>>Its my understanding that foward pressure affects the toes on *all* modern bindings.<<

true... but for some reason, markers live in this delicate balance, and seem to be much more affected if the forward pressure is out of whack.
post #7 of 17
post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 

Thanks. I had read this article when you posted ther link to it previously on this forum. That's a big reason I did not adjust my bindings up for the training and race. However, I will read it again for further insight on the heel release from the start and the pre-release on the chatter.
post #9 of 17
The Markers are heavily affected by forward pressure, due to the way the their upward release works. Quote from their website.
"Logic2 provides skiers of all ability levels advanced protection and performance. A unique and central protection feature in Logic2, Biometric Programmed Upward Release, can now provide "during-the-moment" release force reduction of between 25-50%, depending on the skier's individual release force settings, when skiers need it most-in backward twisting falls."
So when the ski de-cambers forcefully the binding "thinks" you're in a backward fall and lowers the release force. Then you are on your butt instead of your skis. If you crank up the forward pressure the Marker binding doesn't "think" that you're in a backward fall as easily. Too much forward pressure and your bindings will not function. Find someone (race/mogul coach or ski shop guy that works with racers) to help you set up you're bindings.

I have heard that the forward pressure affects the heel release on the Atomic bindings, but I don't have any experience with that or any concept of how that works.
post #10 of 17
Here is some rules of thumb we use. For GS and SG training go 20% above shop setting (DIN)for toe, and add one full setting on heel. Forward pressure is per setup. For very hard or chattery conditions, and races we typically set 40% above DIN with 2 full numbers on the heel. Forward pressure is per setup. Downhill is a different story. We require all our racers to mark all skis with shop setting, training, and race settings.

Example: Say shop setting is 7, training is toe at 8.5 heel is 9.5.<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by edgreen (edited March 21, 2001).]</FONT>
post #11 of 17
Thread Starter 

Just to clarify, is the basic GS/SG heel setting you recommend one DIN higher than the chart or is plus one over the toe (which is 20% above chart DIN)?

post #12 of 17
Heel is plus 1 over the toe. Occasionally, with some bindings, plus 2. People almost never come out of the toe. Heel releases are more often than not due to counter flexing of the ski due to not enough pressure on the ski, ie. falling inside.

The above is for J4's and up. J5's and down can often ski on shop settings for GS. Also We don't let anyone train SG on shop settings.
post #13 of 17
Are these settings for all bindings? In my experience some binding brands require higher settings than others.
What are your guidelines for setting bindings for icy chattered up slalom courses?<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by NordtheBarbarian (edited March 21, 2001).]</FONT><FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by NordtheBarbarian (edited March 21, 2001).]</FONT>
post #14 of 17
As I said, in the first post, this is a general rule of thumb. Some of our top men go much higher, like using the racing set for training, and then go above that for racing. Secondly, as you suggest some bindings need to be set higher than others. Marker and Atomic come to mind. Atomic needs more heel, and a bit more forward pressure. Salomon can be skied a bit lower on the toes.

As far as slalom goes, I’m reluctant to go too high on toes. A ski that doesn’t release from a hooked gate, can lead to a blown knee or concussion. I’ve seen this too often.

I need to emphasize that knowing a shop setting is critical, relative to a race setting. I’ve seen too many racers skiing on settings much too high, especially in slalom.

post #15 of 17
Ed, I'm glad to see that my practices -- albeit somewhat more informal -- generally conform with yours. Also, I'm always pained when my racers crank up up their sl toe settings specifically so that their bindings will NOT release when they hook -- I don't think finishing in such circumstances is worth risking a torn knee!
post #16 of 17

I have neither the time or desire to post hundreds of messages. The race season on my end doesn’t ever really end, and I’ve got two jobs. One is a cash creator and the other a cash consumer, the Loveland Race Club; I’m president. So, with this in mind, what do you think people who follow this site would be interested in that isn’t routinely written about in Ski Racing, or posted on the USSA or FIS-SKI web sites? Also, I’m not too sure I want to talk about vanilla ski technique. Race specific stuff, maybe from a problem solution approach. I’ve been on a number of race room lay-ups for next year. Some of them force you to ski the way they want. So, we could get into the equipment-generates technique-generates-equipment cycle. Coaching issues might be fun, but maybe this would be best off-line. Hay I got it, 10 never previously revealed secrets guaranteed to turn an over weight NASTAR racer into an overnight World Cup sensation. I bet we could write a book on it. I think you start with a pair of jet sticks.

<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by edgreen (edited March 22, 2001).]</FONT>
post #17 of 17
Ed, I'm basically in the same boat as you re: obligations, so I generally jump in only on topics that have some relevance to racing or where I have different angle. Plus being a college coach and not interacting with a lot of coaches on a mtn team, I really value input from other coaches.

Tips on actual race *coaching* (i.e., providing feedback) are great (especially since we have done almost none of this at the USSCA programs I have attended, including the Mammoth Nat'l Coaches School), but I think accomplishing that via the internet is rather difficult.

The other big help is advice on ski length, which has become so difficult lately as lengths seem to keep dropping each year, even in gs.

I'm not sure what others want, and I don't want to speak on their behalf, but as far as transforming an overweight NASTAR skier into an overnight WC sensation, everyone knows the key is to buy the latest gear at retail prices, plus the most expensive speed suit available, and then finish it off with pure fluoro additives (even if the humidity is low)!
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