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Instructor skiis???

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
I am going to get a pair of skiis to use mainly just for instructing. I am thinking along the lines of a recreational slalom ski. After reading a bunch of reviews and comments...I have it down to....oh...maybe 10 models to demo.. Sheesh..

Any suggestions?

Here's what I'm gathering so far:

1 - The Atomic 9.12 must be tried.

2 - The Head XP-70ti and XP-60 must be tried

3 - The Dynastar Speed SX must be tried

4 - The K2 Mach S must be tried

5 - The Rossi T Power Viper S must be tried

After all that..a few others that caught my attention as an instructor's ski include THe crossmax9, Fischer Rc4 SC, Atomic 10.20 and 10.16

Anyone have any comments about any of these? Basically, I want a ski that I can do nice slow, round turns in any conditions. In particular, I want something that can carve nice slow controlled round turns through just about any mogul field or crud section I can throw at them. Something forgiving and requires not quite so much effort as a higher performing ski....yet also no slouch when I need to turn it on a bit.


post #2 of 27
I just sold my teaching skis last night ..... and I miss them already. Volkl p-40 SL's ..... @ 170.

You are on the right track but I would consider buying a used pair to use as a teaching hack unless you are pushing upper levels where the students can at least stay off your skis. Mine looked like the aftermath of a chain saw masacre movie after only one year.
post #3 of 27
Thread Starter 
Heh heh...I hear ya on that. I'm also trying to prepare for and pass my level 3 certification (CSIA), so I want a fresh set of skiis...
post #4 of 27
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dewdman42:
Heh heh...I hear ya on that. I'm also trying to prepare for and pass my level 3 certification (CSIA), so I want a fresh set of skiis...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good stuff. I just took the CSIA Level III over here on the East coast (and passed). Best of luck with it.

post #5 of 27
Thread Starter 
Congradulations. I am real close to being ready. Its the bump skiing that will make or break the deal. I need to do slow, smooth, round turns through whatever bumps they throw at me. Somehow I don't think my X-Screams are gonna cut it. B-)
post #6 of 27
I want to first admit I'm a K2 "pro rep"!

The Mach S is a great ski. I want to suggest you try the Elan HCX. It's a great carving ski and does fine in the bumps as well.
post #7 of 27
I see a lot of instructors on the rossi tpower viper s because they are so easy to ski on, the atomic 9.12 might feel too heavy and sluggish for teaching... and the other skis that you mentioned may be too big of skis to enjoy teaching on. Most instructors that i know are on shorter slalom type skis. If i were teaching id find a very light slalom ski that was not expensive or possibly even used... My dad's 2001 fischer rc4 sc's would probly be a good teaching ski because they are very light and easy to turn (and dont require you to be going mach 10 to get and edge).
post #8 of 27
I've done all my teaching / coaching this season on my Salomon CrossMax 10 Pilots. Great all mountain boards, and a topsheet that stands up to a little abuse without looking terrible.

post #9 of 27
There are about whole bunch of us at Mammoth Sports School, who swear by the K2 Enemy as a teaching ski, and as an everyday all mountain ski. Great for slow demos, or high speed arcs, easy to skid or carve, plenty of width for versatility in any snow, and of course twintipped for going switch while leading the kids. Of course, there are also plenty of guys on other twins (Vs and 1080s), and shorty slaloms.
post #10 of 27
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Helluvaskier:
I see a lot of instructors on the rossi tpower viper s because they are so easy to ski on, the atomic 9.12 might feel too heavy and sluggish for teaching... and the other skis that you mentioned may be too big of skis to enjoy teaching on. Most instructors that i know are on shorter slalom type skis. If i were teaching id find a very light slalom ski that was not expensive or possibly even used...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not so sure about an easy turning light ski, several of the CSIA level 3 examiners in my region have said that many people have been showing up to level 3 courses with unsuitable skis ie. super carvers that are not very versatile. As a level 3 you need an easy turning ski yes, but you also a ski that can be skied agressively in demanding situations. I think Dewdman42 is on the right track a longish slalom ski is a good choice, at least here in eastern Canada. I've skied and taught the last 3 seasons on 180cm Atomic 9.16's. Got my CSIA level 3 last year on them. I don't think the 9.12 is at all slugish or heavy, in fact I found it VERY responsive, but it might be to carvy for Dewdman42's needs. However, I've only demo'd them for about 2 hours so I could be wrong.
post #11 of 27
Thread Starter 
I am based in whistler. So on top of the requirements stated above... The snow conditions here tend to be soft and cruddy a lot. ice hard bumps are a rare occurrence. I will be doing my level 3 course in late April...hard to say what the conditions will be like then.

Its the bump requirement that has me most worried... I need to find a ski that can help me slow it down in the bumps... Less zipper line skiing and more slow, round, carved turns.

But in any case, I see more and more instructors and examiners showing up with some kind of slalom sidecut. But in my case, it still needs to be a fairly wide ski... And although half the examiners up here are getting on shorter and shorter slalom skiis...I tend to agree...stick to about a 180cm ski (I'm on 187 X-Screams now, so 180 will be a step down), even though many people are telling me 170cm!
post #12 of 27
Although I disagree with skirr [T-Power Viper S can be skied slow, or fast, or hard and fast] - after reviewing the last batch of circumstances you posted, please think long and hard about the Rossi T-Power Cobra X - and bear in mind that I am only matching the ski to the requirements you've posted. These hav a large performace envelope [as well as a large ability envelope] and are wide enough to hand softer or deeper snow. Check 'em out! I skied them in a size longer than I am "supposed to" - and I suppose I had a damn fine time on them! They will go less than Mach Shnell but still pretty durn fast - just get them in a "larger" size, which still will be shorter.
post #13 of 27
It's not the arrow it's the injun.

I don't think any ski will slow you down and keep you out of the zipperline.

Friends don't let friends ski the zipperline!
post #14 of 27
All the skis you listed are groomer skis. When used in West Coast crud (one of your requirements) their performance starts to wane. I think you should be looking at a mid-fat with good carving characteristics. Most of the non-racing instructors I know seem to have settled on the Rossignol Bandit X or Volkl G3. Both are great carving skis that can be taken off-piste.
post #15 of 27
Thread Starter 
I need slalom sidecut more than I need a fat ski.
post #16 of 27
I'll put my 3 cents in here. I haven't paid my CSIA dues in many years, but did get my 3. Any ski will work, and as a CSIA 3, you should be able to ski any condition on any ski. To make it easier though, consider and all-mountain carver as opposed to either a super-carver or an all-mountain mid. The Atomic Carv series of 9.18, 10.16 or 11.16 have a deep enough side cut to rail easilty on edge, but enough surface area to be user friendly in softer conditions. The 9, 10, and 11 are Atomics performance ratings, so the 9 is least demanding, and the 11 most. Choose your length on these models such that they are about eye level.
post #17 of 27
Thread Starter 
times have changed mate. Every level 4 instructor or CSIA examiner in whistler is riding on slalom sidecut boards now....aka..super carvers... And it makes a difference. You can be like Glenn Plake and say that a level 3 should be able to ski anywhere on any-thing...but the fact is...it will be a WHOLE lot easier to make round, smooth, short radius turns the ski instructor way...on appropriate skiis...
post #18 of 27
The most popular ski with instructors at Bridger Bowl is the Volkl G3. They are able to make them carve just fine. Same goes with the Bandit X.

If you want a short slalom ski then stick to the Mach S or Viper S. Both have a reputation for being more versital than many of the other short slaloms. If you are sticking to a carving ski you might also want to look at the Rossi Viper X PPS. That ski is extremely versital (I own a pair and can't stop raving about them).
post #19 of 27
I just got back from Whistler wheere my wife and I took the Dave Murray Camp and our daughter took the 5-day Adventure Camp. We saw more instructors on the Head WC Slalom Ti, especially in lengths around 170 to 175. This included days like Thursday and Friday (21 and 22) where there was plenty of fresh snow (although Friday's was pretty heavy). I also own a pair of the Head WC Slaloms and find them to be lots of fun and relatively easy. Also,, our Dave Murray instructor was sponsored by Salomon, but danced through everything on his Crossmax Pilot 10's.
post #20 of 27

I know lots of level 4s are using new school slaloms, but be careful by saying all do. Wade Sutton mostly uses his Sugar Daddys, and if he needs narrower, he's on 10.ex. The narrowest he has is the 11.20. Sandy Millar uses the 11.16 in a 180 as his turniest pair, and Jason Roe has been on GS skis a lot. The list goes on.

As a teaching ski, you have to look for a ski that carves at low and high speeds, has nimbleness and stability, edge quickness and floatation, and groomed and bumped run performance. You will have to compromise, since very few skis can do everything.
post #21 of 27
Thread Starter 
Was your Dave Murray Instructor Jaques by any chance? He hates Heads...loves Salomon. But of course...its a french ski (and he's sponsored by them too I think). Jaques is a hoot.

At any rate...yes...a HUGE part of whistler ski school is skiing on the Head World Cup. I have yet to try it, but I'm planning on it. A few people I really respect a lot think its a bit stiff for ski instructor use.. But the people skiing on them love them.
post #22 of 27
Thread Starter 
BetaRacer...you are correct of course...It was hasty for me to use the word "all". "All" almost "Never" applies to "anything".

True enough...there are many instructors on many different things. My only intent was to observe that I have noticed a tendency in the past year or so for higher level instructors to start moving towards super carver or other slalom sidecut skiis. And even Peter Keelty seems to think that these rec slalom skiis COULD POSSIBLY turn out to be the all-mountain ski to replace mid-fats in the next few years. Impossible to say for sure, but when I look around the ski school and I see what "most" or "many" (Try to choose my words carefully) of the higher level instructors are skiing on...its super carvers or rec slaloms or even race slaloms.

Certainly they are on turnier skiis than What I have been on. It makes it just a bit easier to navigate those slow, round, small turn shapes. In a ski instructor world where everyone is supposed to try to look consistently the same. TO be honest with you, I never liked overly-turny skiis for fun-free-skiing. I prefer a longer-turning ski. But in terms of teaching and getting certified, I think I will have an easier time looking the way they want me to look if I get on some turnier equipment. I'm still going to get another pair of skiis for fun skiing (longer turning most likely).
post #23 of 27
I've gotta strongly second what SpinHeli said about the Enemies. Before having skied on them, I would never in a million years have believed how versatile they actually turned out to be.

They make it easy to do pretty little demo turns at slow speeds, as well as longer radius turns at reasonable speeds, especially in softer stuff. They are great in chopped up / inconsistent conditions as well as bumps, and they are great for slowly wiggling down the line of crud thrown to the edges of high traffic novice catwalks. Basically, I find that in a 173, they are not too turny-twitchy & not too slow, either.

OTOH, when the snow gets hard, and/or I really want to go fast, my p40's come out (but that's not what you are asking about).

Disclamer - take my advice with a grain of salt as I have not yet demoed any of the new super slaloms like the 9.12.

Tom / PM

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ February 26, 2002 04:33 PM: Message edited 1 time, by PhysicsMan ]</font>
post #24 of 27
I have been skiing on the Atomic BetaRace 9.12 (115-65-100) for 2 months now and I have never been on a more versatile ski (thanks Peter Keelty). I even have hit some deep stuff during a 4 day stay in Kicking Horse and easily kept up with the others on mid fats. Moguls are easy just carve between them. No better ski to show the students how to carve. In fact the students should be on them.

Last year I was on the Rossignol T-Power Viper S at 167 cm and also think it is an incredible ski.

post #25 of 27

No, Jacques taught another group and my wife and I were in John Kindree's group. He was a lot of fun. I thought it was good how everyone in the class found something that expanded their horizons. Especially with fresh snow. Since Tuesday is the regularly scheduled day for First Tracks for the Camp, it was a great day for it as it was snowing heavily.
post #26 of 27
Seems like you asked one question (what's the best ski for teaching) and the discussion moved to another question (what's the best ski for a Level III exam).

To answer the first question, unless you continually get the Level 8-9 classes you need something short, maneuverable, with good sidecut. If you'll be taking your groups to bowls, powder, etc, you probably need a mid-fat. My choice for Vail is the Rossi Bandid XX. It carves well on the groomed but in the back bowls in the crud it does exceptionally well.

Now, for the exam, that's a different story. They want to see an all mountain skier. I heard horror stories about the examiners all showing up in 160 slalom skis, but that was bull. (I recently passed PSIA Level III in the East). By far the most popular ski for the examiners was the Volkl P50 in 173, 177, or 183.

I bought a new pair of skis just for the exams. I got a pair of Elan Integra 9.0 (excellent pro form price), so, like you, I'd have an easier time in the bumps. They were the only thing I was worried about. And, they worked great.

By the way. We took a lot of runs in the bumps, but, each one was different. For example, in a set of milder bumps "let's ski this like you had a strong level 6 class", all the way to, in a really steep set of bumps "let's just see you you can ski this the way you know how to."

Note, that I took the exam in the east, Stowe. I was planning on hard and icy and I got it. If I were doing it in Rocky Mtn I probably would have used my Bandit XX in a 177.

Good luck with the exam. Late April? You know what it'll be like, SLOP. Get a mid fat!

Just my 2cents.


<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ February 27, 2002 07:25 AM: Message edited 2 times, by WVSkier ]</font>
post #27 of 27
Thread Starter 
WVSkier...thanks for the advice... Another ski to check out.

In my case, level 3 is is not the top. CSIA goes to level 4 max. Also, whistler in late April is typically not as sloppy as down in the states. Last year I was skiing on June 8th in mild winter conditions... Its nice to get warmer weather and maybe we will...

In any case, so far that I've seen...in the level 3 prep sessions I have been attending and other level 3's I have spoken with...the shorter, slalomy skiis are what I want... I have a set of mid-fats already.
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