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Need for custom insoles

post #1 of 67
Thread Starter 

In the spirit of "question everything" I have been experimenting a bit with and without custom insoles the last week or so.

 

At least in Sweden it is more or less a given that high end skiers and generally everyone buying high end boots always get custom insole molded after the feet. I have several different insoles with varying stiffness in the support. 

 

On the off season I run a lot and I have been using barefoot shoes for almost ten years. No support whatsoever and very thin.

My feet are strong and neutral, so why do I need a custom insole?

 

So far my experiences are:

 

I cannot feel a huge performance difference between no soles and stiff soles. I have no video so I cannot say for sure that I don't have an alignment problem without the insoles, like A-frame or so, but I don't think so.

 

I feel that the fore-aft balance is more responsive without arched soles. The pressure can be moved between the metatarsels and the heel much quicker when the feet are not "disturbed" by the arch supports.

 

The foot is wider without the insoles, which makes it a bit more painful against the fifth metatarsel. 

 

With insoles I get some minor pain under the arch because of the small muscles being pressed against the support. This does not happen without them.

 

It feels like whole foot balance is easier without arch support.

 

Anyone else having any experiences or thoughts?

post #2 of 67

The standard insoles are made to a last or mold or some "standard" shape.  If you foot has that shape, you are lucky.  If you foot is way off, you will need some customization for a better fit.   A better fit will allow for better control (and help keep your heel where it should be).

 

I've read the arguments about "impact" loading from runners.  Running in bare feet is fine if you have the feet for it.  However,I still think if hitting ruts at 50 mph in high-g turns when skiing, your feet need a little extra support.  Plus with a firmer foot bed you get less deformation under high loads and thus better feed back and control.

 

Just like you don't need 150 flex race boots for sliding around at 15 mph, your foot bed needs will vary with your skiing needs.

post #3 of 67

Not everyone needs custom footbeds.

 

I prefer footbeds with some flexibility so, "The pressure can be moved between the metatarsels and the heel much quicker."

post #4 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

The standard insoles are made to a last or mold or some "standard" shape.  If you foot has that shape, you are lucky.  If you foot is way off, you will need some customization for a better fit.   A better fit will allow for better control (and help keep your heel where it should be).

 

I've read the arguments about "impact" loading from runners.  Running in bare feet is fine if you have the feet for it.  However,I still think if hitting ruts at 50 mph in high-g turns when skiing, your feet need a little extra support.  Plus with a firmer foot bed you get less deformation under high loads and thus better feed back and control.

 

Just like you don't need 150 flex race boots for sliding around at 15 mph, your foot bed needs will vary with your skiing needs.

This is just not accurate for everyone. This is a highly subjective issue that is as much art as science. 

 

The true answer is................................it depends. 

 

I have very rigid feet, and a reasonably high instep and arch. I don't pronate. I use a custom molded non-posted flexible footbed.  Sidas Conformable Custom Pro. Previous to these,  I was always put in a rigid, highly posted bed, some molded weight bearing, some not. Had nothing but problems. Aching in the middle of the bottom of my feet for the first few runs....miserable!

 

The combo of a custom ground plug boot and non-posted flexible foot bed has been blissful! 

 

If you lock your foot in place (depending on your foot, of course) you are precluded from making small muscle balance adjustments inside the boot (also the reason for leaving some room in the navicular area) and are relegated to use larger muscles up the chain for edge angle adjustments. 

 

Here are mine:

 

 

 

 

 

I won't say who wrote this article, but interesting and useful nonetheless IMHO:

 

My staff and coaches are all professional skiers and have been for many decades. These people are not just instructors and coaches, but also boot fitters, footbed specialists and alignment experts. We feel that to teach skiing properly at the highest level you must understand the whole system: feet, ankles, boots and alignment.
With this level of understanding, ski instruction becomes very precise and effective. My staff and I are always looking to enhance our own experience on snow. Therefore I encourage them to try many products and to modify their own. Recently, we have been working on ski boot modifications.
Last summer, I modified many ski boots at Mt. Hood for FIS Junior US development racers with great success. We began this season modifying ski boots for many other racers including World Cup and US Ski Team racer, Erik Schlopy. This has become an ongoing relationship. We send modified boots to Europe for Erik and he sends his new boots to us from Europe to modify. Erik, remember, has access to the best boot technicians the World Cup can provide, but prefers to send his boots to us. We are working on two different modifications on Erik's boots. They increase the ability of the foot and ankle to produce edging power and the ability of the ankle to access the boot wall through medial wall and boot board modifications. These are the same movements of the ankle we try to provide for all our footbed and alignment customers.
The functional articulation of the ankle and foot in the boot provides and enhances the skier's ability to make refined, fine-tuning movements to adjust the ski edge angle on the snow. If this articulation is not available, movements are made at the hip using the adductor muscles to lever the ski on edge. This is a very gross motor movement and does not allow for much adjustment once the movement to the edge begins. In high-end expert skiing or World Cup racing the combination of ankle, foot and leg edging adjustments is essential.
So, why do so few recreational skiers have access to these movements? Because most industry footbeds are overposted and too rigid. This concept has been in my mind and I have applied it for generations as a ski racer, skier, coach and instructor. I have always felt that foot and ankle articulation in the boot are critical to skier performance, especially in the areas of ski edging, holding and controlling. But everywhere I investigated, even to this day, I find that the ski industry is trying to accomplish exactly the opposite.
With hard footbeds and ski boot walls that are very tight on the medial (inside) ankle, most products reduce lateral movement of the ankle toward the boot wall - reducing or eliminating foot articulation. In some ways of thinking this can be justified and explained to seem like a benefit. For example, if rigid footbeds with dense material filling the arch stop any foot movement, one could think that you would get immediate edge and energy transfer. Yes, this does seem to make sense - until you begin to understand that you are now forced to use your upper leg muscles to achieve this immediate edging and transfer. The upper leg muscles (adductors) do not have the ability to fine-tune the edge, thus eliminating any presumed "benefit" of the rigid footbed/immediate-edge-power concept.

Skiers whom we have converted from rigid footbeds to those that allow articulation become more balanced, smooth, and fluid. They also benefit from better foot circulation and therefore have warmer toes. Many overposted and rigid-footed skiers fight their edges. The lack of foot articulation creates chatter on hard snow and over-steering on soft snow. The skis are also super-reactive and feel nervous. Many skiers complain of arch pressure or even pain, but are afraid to mention it because they supposedly bought a "special upgrade". All these problems can be immediately relieved with a more compliant and accurately designed footbed. Now we must keep in mind that every body has different abilities and needs. Some skiers have excess foot movement that needs to be controlled, though not eliminated. A rigid foot and ankle demonstrate the opposite needs.
The rigid foot and ankle are particularly interesting because increasing range of lateral movement in the ankle and foot is much more difficult than reducing range of motion. Hence every footbed needs to be carefully designed and built for the needs of the individual foot to optimize lateral edging power, allowing the range of articulation of the foot and ankle required to apply force to the boot wall. Applying force to the boot wall can only be achieved if the muscles that tip - evert - the foot can function. The peroneal muscles that run up along the outside of the tibia must be able to move the foot through some range of motion for this to occur.
In our painstaking effort to evaluate a skier's balance on snow, we came across some interesting findings. We video all of the skiers who come to our camps while they perform on-snow balancing exercises. After careful analysis of the skiers before and after alignment, over a period of six years, we have determined that skiers with rigid feet and skiers with flexible feet both suffered similar consequences from rigid, inflexible footbeds. These skiers were not able to use their lower joints in the ski boot to help balance or edge the ski. They instead leaned or otherwise used the upper body in a contrived manner to lever the ski to an edge. Most of these skiers cannot engage the edge of the ski – make it slice into the snow. Instead, they demonstrate slipping of the ski.
After a complete set of range-of-motion measurements are taken and a footbed made to allow for proper articulation of the ankle and foot, the skiers again perform the on-snow balance exercises. This second set of exercises yields very different results. Again, slow motion video analysis is used to determine differences in balancing and skiing abilities. One noticeable difference is a new, relaxed body position. The lower body acts as an adjuster of balance and the upper body a stable unit over the boots and feet. Some observers go so far as to say that, the skiers skied as if they had another joint to use in the boot to edge and balance over the ski. Another noticeable difference is an improvement in the skier's ability to engage the edge of the ski, eliminating the slipping that was previously evident. In this season alone we have assembled quantifiable evidence that the footbed and movements I am describing in this article are not only effective but also necessary for higher performance and comfort. We have documented major performance increases with ski racers the very next day after footbed changes. In one particular case, the ski racer improved by thirty FIS points on three different occasions. This occurred without further coaching or equipment changes.
We can document such changes in recreational skiers by video and observing their improved edging and ski performance characteristics, but many objectors and detractors would claim that this is unscientific. When we have quantifiable results based on huge improvements in racing times, there is very little left to doubt. When the top ski racers in this country are noticing the performance benefits, and when our recreational skiers are noticeably skiing better and improving faster, that's all the proof they need.


Edited by Atomicman - 4/14/17 at 11:04am
post #5 of 67

And that's why there is a level of boot fitters certification called "the dark arts"

 

There is a lot of science in the world of boot fitting and footbeds, but there are also a lot of variables based on the needs of the athlete, body makeup, muscles, alignment etc..

 

Having a fitter that really understands how to listen and evaluate an athlete (at least at the upper levels) is extremely important. It's not just a "build a footbed" and you are done. For some it can be a total game changer for others it can ruin the skiing/boarding experience.

 

The average recreational skier probably does NOT NEED a custom built footbed. A well fitted off the shelf may work just as well. A good experienced fitter should be able to spot this.

 

I do know that Starthaus and Bestfit boots used to carry superfeet "cut to fit" foot beds. The last time I was in Jack Rafferty's shop he had them. Also the last time I was in Footloose, they had them. They all build quality footbeds but also offered off the shelf less expensive options for those not demanding that higher level of performance.

 

One comment in Jamt's post reminds me however that a supported (even slightly) foot is very often narrower. It is often slightly shorter as well so those things need to be factored into the fit. Especially if you have hot spots in the width area (bunions, 6th toe, etc)

post #6 of 67

I used custom footbeds for years just because the boot guys recommended it.  I use the stock beds that came with my boot now and I've never had such a responsive, perfectly fit boot.  After five seasons the footbed has kind of molded to my foot anyway.

post #7 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abox View Post
 

I used custom footbeds for years just because the boot guys recommended it.  I use the stock beds that came with my boot now and I've never had such a responsive, perfectly fit boot.  After five seasons the footbed has kind of molded to my foot anyway.


Unless there's a new stock footbed that really has some support (I have not seen one), you are basically skiing with no footbed. the thin felt or foam rubber footbed that comes with every boot I've looked at (including some higher end ones) are a joke.

 

I would suspect its a higher quality, better fit boot that has changed the responsive quality of the boot. Nothing wrong with that by the way. As several people have eluded to, not everyone needs a "custom foot bed" YMMV

post #8 of 67
As another one who doesn't need custom footbed anything, sometimes it really is just about filling up remaindered space in the shell.
post #9 of 67

@Atomicman  What you say makes perfect sense.

 

Not everybody needs custom footbeds, but a good boot fitter should be able to tell you what advantages (if any) a pair would provide and a cost/benefit summary for different types for your feet.

 

It's really hard to tell from anecdotal evidence.  Is one trying footbeds in boots made to fit correctly with a different footbed?

 

I have very difficult feet to fit and high performance demands.  My experience runs from leather lace-ups with no footbeds to speak of to heavily posted footbeds in race boots.

 

Currently I ski with one pair of boots on colder days (to avoid frostbite) that has a more flexible footbed, and ski a pair of boots with a stiff posted footbed on warmer days.  I prefer the posted ones, but that could just be that the boots are better or better fit too.  Considering how bad those posted footbeds are supposed to be, it's amazing I manage to get down the hill at all with the posted footbed boots, let alone ski better in them. :D

:beercheer:

post #10 of 67

My feet are also a bitch. Wide forefoot, fairly high instep, skinny ankle and lower legs and my right foot is fairly curved. 

 

The boot fitters used to call me "The Princess and the Pea"   :D

post #11 of 67
I find any type of footbed causes my feet to ache. I have tried the off the shelf variety as well as a custom set made for me by a sports MD, but now prefer just to go with a felt liner. Perhaps years of training and competing barefoot in martial arts has conditioned my feet?
post #12 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post

I find any type of footbed causes my feet to ache. I have tried the off the shelf variety as well as a custom set made for me by a sports MD, but now prefer just to go with a felt liner. Perhaps years of training and competing barefoot in martial arts has conditioned my feet?

Don't be fooled by the "Sports MD"  moniker!   I went that route too and had orthotics made.....couldn't ski in them AT ALL. 

 

I will bet custom formed and NON-posted flexible beds will work.  But, as you see my beds in the photos above, there is some grinding that needed to be done on those bed even after they were custom molded.

 

Some physical features of the bottom of my foot do not mold into the bed.  I have a very pronounced tuberosity of the 5th met (Not 6th toe although that is bad too) and it never seems to mold into the bed so we have to make a pocket (which is clearly visible in the 2nd photo)  for that and then arch always seems to mold short, so that we need to grind the very rear of the arch  and that is also clearly visible.

 

As Dchan says the stuff that comes in boots from the factory IMHO is totally worthless.


Edited by Atomicman - 4/14/17 at 3:16pm
post #13 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

@Atomicman  What you say makes perfect sense.   That may be a 1st!   :ROTF

 

 

post #14 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

As another one who doesn't need custom footbed anything, sometimes it really is just about filling up remaindered space in the shell.
agree. To my mind for most recreational skiers it's about filling volume of the boot and reducing slop. Hence Superfeet and other non custom brands work just fine for majority.
post #15 of 67

It depends on the feet.   I have one foot that I can ski with little or no custom support.   The other foot needs lots of help and it's tricky to get it right.    Going to a boot fitter is a little like going to a Dr.,  if they don't listen...find another (Dr.) boot fitter.    YM

post #16 of 67
For years I have assumed like most that perfectly fitting customs were the way to go for me....it's just what I needed for high end skiing, right? Since, I have done some reading and research and have determined that I have fairly rigid feet with high-ish arches and a narrow heel. I switched out my customs for some 35$ superfeet, and I feel a noticeable improvement. My feet can now pronate functionally under load, whereas before I feel that I had to fight a bit more to get balanced on edge underfoot. The switch also had the added benefit of lowering my heel in the boot (superfoot is lower profile in the heel than my customs) which was a bonus for my flexy ankles. Of course as noted above, some will need more support (flat, flexible feet, collapsed arches, etc), but this seems to work for me for now...still will experiment this summer.

I DO feel, as do many, that the word "pronation" gets a bad rap, as such is a normal function in otherwise health feet....hence the almost universal call for immobilizing the feet.....

zenny
post #17 of 67

The "anonymous" post by A-man aligns with my experience.

 

What other sport asks for an incredible level of balance and dynamic mobility while all too frequently blocking the myriad fine movements of the complex foot?

post #18 of 67
I skied happily with my superfeet for years. When I bought my current boots, the fitter wouldn't even consider fitting me unless I agreed to custom footbeds. I said yes and have liked them fine. I haven't found them to be any better though. I have very narrow feet , but arch and Instep are pretty regular so that might be why.
post #19 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgrandy View Post

The "anonymous" post by A-man aligns with my experience.

What other sport asks for an incredible level of balance and dynamic mobility while all too frequently blocking the myriad fine movements of the complex foot?

Hockey? Speed skating? Rock climbing esp. overhangs?
post #20 of 67

Lots of people are posting about doing away with custom footbeds.  My story is that I need them, for several reasons.

 

I have "loose," hypermobile feet.  My formerly high arches are pretty much gone, and my feet twist and turn easily (and I have a very large angle of dorsiflexion). I am prone to getting sudden shooting pain that comes from my bones moving inside my forefoot, pinching a nerve until it screams (Morton's neuroma).  My feett tend to roll around inside the boots, creating lag time between what I do with my feet and what my skis do.  Due to that hypermobility, I need a custom posted footbed that reduces the twisty-turny behavior of my feet.  That footbed also eliminates the Morton's neuroma, so for years I've had strong, stiff, posted footbeds.  They feel great.  This year I tried stiff orthotics, and moved to a shell that fits my foot better than any previous boot did (it took forever to get to this bootfitter and this boot, but I'm finally there).  I'm not sure the orthotics are any better for my feet than the custom footbeds - yet.  They are certainly not any worse, and they feet very comfortable.  

 

Having such wobbly feet makes me not understand this talk about needing to feel the feet roll ("articulate"?) from side to side, with ankle bones contacting sides of the boot.  My ankle bones scream when they contact the sides of the boot - because there are nerves right there on the surface that get squished.  That's been a difficult thing to eliminate but it's almost all gone now (aftermarket liners$$).  But I trust that for many people posting in this thread, soft, unposted, or non-custom footbeds are better for their feet than the supports my feet need. 

 

My point:  everyone's feet are different.  Boot fixes need to be different.  There is no one right way to do it.

post #21 of 67
Sure, we're just pulling back from the absolutist 'everyone needs full custom'. Everyone could use a pro evaluation though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

Lots of people are posting about doing away with custom footbeds.  My story is that I need them, for several reasons.

I have "loose," hypermobile feet.  My formerly high arches are pretty much gone, and my feet twist and turn easily (and I have a very large angle of dorsiflexion). I am prone to getting sudden shooting pain that comes from my bones moving inside my forefoot, pinching a nerve until it screams (Morton's neuroma).  My feett tend to roll around inside the boots, creating lag time between what I do with my feet and what my skis do.  Due to that hypermobility, I need a custom posted footbed that reduces the twisty-turny behavior of my feet.  That footbed also eliminates the Morton's neuroma, so for years I've had strong, stiff, posted footbeds.  They feel great.  This year I tried stiff orthotics, and moved to a shell that fits my foot better than any previous boot did (it took forever to get to this bootfitter and this boot, but I'm finally there).  I'm not sure the orthotics are any better for my feet than the custom footbeds - yet.  They are certainly not any worse, and they feet very comfortable.  

Having such wobbly feet makes me not understand this talk about needing to feel the feet roll ("articulate"?) from side to side, with ankle bones contacting sides of the boot.  My ankle bones scream when they contact the sides of the boot - because there are nerves right there on the surface that get squished.  That's been a difficult thing to eliminate but it's almost all gone now (aftermarket liners$$).  But I trust that for many people posting in this thread, soft, unposted, or non-custom footbeds are better for their feet than the supports my feet need. 

My point:  everyone's feet are different.  Boot fixes need to be different.  There is no one right way to do it.
post #22 of 67
I use the green superfeet in my boots and my feet are very comfortable
post #23 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by lott42 View Post

I use the green superfeet in my boots and my feet are very comfortable

I have a pair of custom insoles in my now 2nd pair of Tecnicas

Green superfoot insoles in my no 1 pair

+1 on superfoot green recco!
post #24 of 67
Green superfeet make my feet abduct - kind of extremely annoying when I'm trying to glide in set tracks. Switching to yellows - boom fixed.

Anyone want some only slightly whiffy green ones?
post #25 of 67
I've got the blue ones in a Salomon lab 140 plug...me likey so far :-)

zenny
post #26 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

I've got the blue ones in a Salomon lab 140 plug...me likey so far :-)

zenny
I have a custom footbed too that I like in my 100 last boots but I like green ones in my 98 last ones better.

I tried the blue ones too but for me the green ones felt better 😀
Edited by lott42 - 4/15/17 at 1:43pm
post #27 of 67
Originally Posted by Cgrandy View Post
 

What other sport asks for an incredible level of balance and dynamic mobility while all too frequently blocking the myriad fine movements of the complex foot?

 
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

Hockey? Speed skating?

 

So to reach our maximum potential we should start skiing again in leather boots?   ;-)

 
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

Sure, we're just pulling back from the absolutist 'everyone needs full custom'. Everyone could use a pro evaluation though.

 

In a perfect world that would surely be the answer. However depending on the "pro" your mileage may vary. You might get the right shell fit, appropriate forward lean and flex, etc, or you might get what's languishing on the shelf in the back of the shop, especially around this time of year. The hard part, as with a lot of services, is knowing when to cede control and go with the pro.

 
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

My feet are also a bitch. Wide forefoot, fairly high instep, skinny ankle and lower legs and my right foot is fairly curved.

 

I have pretty much the same profile, only it's my left foot that's more curved, even higher arch, and a bump on top to, er, boot. And I'm pretty bow-legged as well.

 

Over the past seven years I've purchased two pairs of new boots. The first was at what would probably be considered a "semi-pro" shop - not a big box store, but an outdoor sports, not dedicated ski, shop, although located in a ski town and there was a robust ski department with boot fitting stations and experienced boot fitters. In hindsight I came to know I did get the boots languishing on the shelf, with a too-roomy shell fit. Also shell mod work and a custom instaprint footbed at time of purchase. Not perfect, but served me well for several seasons to get going.

 

Couple of seasons back I researched and tried several boots, and ended up with getting a pair of Lange SX 120's, stepping down a size in the process. For footbeds I had a pair of these that I had acquired along the way...

 

 

Heat-moldable and reasonably stiff, not overly rigid. Good support and quality much closer to a custom footbed than the junk that typically comes with ski boots. I tried them in the new Lange's and they seemed to fit and work well. So, having new boots with a good shell fit, shell mods (punches where needed), and upper cuff alignment set, that left ...

 

    v. cant·ing
       1. To lean to one side; slant.

 

Remember, I'm bow-legged, with my left foot making my left leg (knee) tilt out even further, so I need some additional work to get my skis to a good flat, neutral position.

 

Over the years I've worked with four different "Master Bootfitters" in Colorado and California. Two did canting with upper cuff padding. One by grinding and adding plates to the boot soles. And one liked to work "inside the boot". That last one helped set me up with the Lange boots and Viesturs footbeds. After his evaluation in the shop this is the alignment mod he made...

 

 

Over time I began to feel this duct tape cant was the wrong mod for me: Soft snow can hide a multitude of alignment sins, but on firm snow I noticed I had trouble getting my left ski on edge, and also when skating I would tend to slide out. So finally one day I pulled the footbed out and pulled the duct tape off. Things seemed a little better after that, so I took it to the next step...

 

 

Five layers of tape at the toe, and three at the heel. Much better edging, and skating, and no foot discomfort during or after skiing full days. Thanks to the boot fitter who originally did the ankle punch on my shell, (who believes in a good bit of space to allow for ankle movement during skiing), I guess I have enough room in the ankle pocket to accommodate the slight shift of my foot in the boot. That and a slight micro adjustment to the lower boot buckles.

 

More experimentation is and will always be needed - the price of good boot fit and alignment is eternal vigilance! But isn't it interesting that seemingly the proper solution for me is essentially the exact opposite of what the master boot fitter came up with during a shop visit?

 

TL;DR

 

Ed Viesturs makes a relatively inexpensive, good quality, off-the-shelf footbed which may suffice for the needs of some skiers.

 

Boot fitters can be good for boot recommendations, and are typically good for basic shell modifications. Alignment can be complicated and for some (many? most?) skiers may well be an iterative process requiring multiple adjustments/visits.

 

Keep your brain turned on. Get some trail maps, a roll of duct tape, and some of this stuff, and don't be afraid to experiment - with a non-destructive tweak if it don't make it better just back it out and try again!

 

Brace for... (Click to show)
Flames along the lines of "That's not canting!", "A man who is his own boot fitter has a fool for a customer!", "You're doomed to be a terminal intermediate!", etc.

Edited by jc-ski - 4/15/17 at 6:29pm
post #28 of 67
I use the red super feet. My understanding is that the different colors correct different issues. A bootfitter put me in the red ones originally. I'm a bit of a princess and feel even the slightest thing under foot. I was feeling a flaw in the bottom of the ski boot. He ground it down and sold me foot beds. It worked.
Edited by mustski - 4/15/17 at 4:01pm
post #29 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post


I DO feel, as do many, that the word "pronation" gets a bad rap, as such is a normal function in otherwise health feet....hence the almost universal call for immobilizing the feet.....

zenny 

Pronation is a normal  component  of the gait cycle.   Approximately 4 degrees of pronation is considered normal.   Every foot is different.  Some feet have higher or lower arches.  Some feet are more flexible or ridged than others.   It is "excessive" pronation that is abnormal.     When the foot pronates excessively or supinates when it should pronate is when we have a problem.  When the excessive pronation or supination causes poor tracking of the knee we have a problem.   It's also necessary to consider what the forefoot does.  Does the skier have a varus or valgus forefoot which contributes to poor ankle/rearfoot function  and poor knee tracking.       When a person with excessive pronation  causing  flat feet, stands on their toes, the arch is restored.    Folks with ridged flat feet will not demonstrate a medial longitudinal arch when standing on their  toes.  I know of two skiers with ridged flat feet who are   very very good skiers.   My sense is that excessive rear foot motion is more damaging to great skiing than is hypomobility.    YM

post #30 of 67
Quote:
 not understand this talk about needing to feel the feet roll ("articulate"?) from side to side, with ankle bones contacting sides of the boot.  My ankle bones scream when they contact the sides of the boot

The bone should not contact the boot cuff.  Some have the cuff pressed out so they can move their ankles without the contact.  This was mentioned in the article Atomicman posted.

 

This page from the Green Mountain Orthotics Lab shows the need for posted footbeds for some skiers:  http://gmolfoot.com/gmolfootbeds.htm

 

My ankles pronate.  A lot.  If I stand with both feet pointing straight ahead and flex my knees, my knees come together.  If I stand so my knees flex straight ahead, I'm standing duck footed.  If I stand on my posted footbeds (or the equivalent orthotics made by my podiatrist), my feet are straight ahead and my knees flex straight ahead.  That's me.  You're different.  Everyone's needs must be evaluated individually.

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