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Last skiing for the year - VIDEO

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 

Spring is here and our local ski slopes have all closed. Last weekend we went up north to Levi for some season ending drills and skiing. Please feel free to comment on the video. Cannot phraise Levi enough. Almost no crowd and pist's in pristine condition. Skis are Atomic Redster 157.  

 

post #2 of 47

Smooth skiing and a wonderful demonstration of mastery.

post #3 of 47

Nice tdk6. Getting smoother and smoother. Only thing that sticks out at first glance (and its very minor ie Nitpicky) is you stay a little inclined at the end of your turn going right. Going left you level out better at the end of your turns. Shows up in all the drills at some point in each exercise. Love the fluidity of your skiing and where you have taken it.

post #4 of 47

Just curious, why don't you use GS skis when you practice GS type turns?

post #5 of 47
Unless it's specifically GS training, I would not switch skis just because the turn size changes.

Besides not being necessary, it fine tunes how well you can adjust and respond to what you feel under your feet.

Any good skier (almost anyone for that matter) once they learn to put a ski on edge, can ride a sidecut. It take mastery of skill blending to get an SL ski to make a clean smooth GS turn, and make it look that easy.biggrin.gif
post #6 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post

Unless it's specifically GS training, I would not switch skis just because the turn size changes.

Besides not being necessary, it fine tunes how well you can adjust and respond to what you feel under your feet.

Any good skier (almost anyone for that matter) once they learn to put a ski on edge, can ride a sidecut. It take mastery of skill blending to get an SL ski to make a clean smooth GS turn, and make it look that easy.biggrin.gif

Well I could argue that if the turn radius is above that given by the sidecut the turn is not clean. 99% of the people that ride the sidecut don't make clean turns and I don't really see the point in doing it on purpose when the purpose is race training like the camp TDK was on.

Anyway its not important.

post #7 of 47

I didn't see where the trip to Levi was for a GS or Race camp. Sorry if I missed that. I thought he was just out doing some last skills and drills skiing before packing away the equipment for the season.

 

I agree most people that think they are "carving" or "riding a side cut" are not making clean carves.. I doubt I do either most of the time. BUT if I'm specifically doing drills to fine tune my overall skiing. Doesn't matter what ski I'm on. If it's meant to be several turn sizes and shapes, Unless I'm trying to go Mach x I prefer to be on a SL ski while training.

post #8 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ61 View Post
 

Smooth skiing and a wonderful demonstration of mastery.

 

Thanks :)

post #9 of 47

@dchan
Imo big ski's (with a big sidecut) can help a lot if you want to progress your skiing. It is not true everyone can just ski a gs ski if they can ski a slalom ski. Gs ski's are considerably harder to ski than a slalom ski, it's not even a comparison. 


@tdk6
Nice going tdk! If I were you I would add two things to your skiing:
1. Delay your edge angles (and I would practice this on ski's with a large turning radius) 
2. Inside leg flexion from the fall line onwards to make the outside ski even more dominant 
 

post #10 of 47

Love your videos and your skiing Tom!

 

I do want royalties on the concept of 3 point separation though! :D

post #11 of 47
Thread Starter 

dchan and Jamt - the camp was not a GS specific camp. Just a last skiing trip of the year weekend with a twist of diciplined drills as well as with fun on the hill. We were actually thinking of taking our GS skis instead but since the trails are not that big or long or wide it made more sence going a bit slower and turning tighter. Now we could practise nice carved GS type turns while still ski the stubby SL course and carve down Levi Black. 

post #12 of 47

Nice skiing and fluid super fluid and also smooth.

Why not a 165 SL ski? At your level is not a problem have a clean turn and you can find more stability.

post #13 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
 

Nice tdk6. Getting smoother and smoother. Only thing that sticks out at first glance (and its very minor ie Nitpicky) is you stay a little inclined at the end of your turn going right. Going left you level out better at the end of your turns. Shows up in all the drills at some point in each exercise. Love the fluidity of your skiing and where you have taken it.

 

You are perfectly right. Good observation. When I turn to the right I have a tendency to lean in on my inside right foot and rotate my hips out in the turn. You can see it clearly on the race course as I turn arround the one brush that was no longer in place. On the other hand, many times it looks and feels ok. Note that I'm already 54y old and I'm very stiff with limited range of motion. On my to do list I have "streaching" and "flexibility".

post #14 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
 

Love your videos and your skiing Tom!

 

I do want royalties on the concept of 3 point separation though! :D

 

The royalties goes to SkiMangoJazz offcourse! Glad you picked up on it. See, even I can learn something and also give credit where it belongs :). Thanks!

 

BTW, do you think it shows in any way? Does it look ok? Do I get your approval?

post #15 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art of Skiing View Post
 

@dchan
Imo big ski's (with a big sidecut) can help a lot if you want to progress your skiing. It is not true everyone can just ski a gs ski if they can ski a slalom ski. Gs ski's are considerably harder to ski than a slalom ski, it's not even a comparison. 


@tdk6
Nice going tdk! If I were you I would add two things to your skiing:
1. Delay your edge angles (and I would practice this on ski's with a large turning radius) 
2. Inside leg flexion from the fall line onwards to make the outside ski even more dominant 
 


Agreed and I never said it's a one way thing. Anything you do to "change " the turn size will teach you different things. Being adaptable, versatile and more tools in the tool box is always a better thing. And I agree GS or wider skis takes a lot more "feel" to get them carving, than a SL ski and trying to let it scarve or go sideways more.

post #16 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
 

 

You are perfectly right. Good observation. When I turn to the right I have a tendency to lean in on my inside right foot and rotate my hips out in the turn. You can see it clearly on the race course as I turn arround the one brush that was no longer in place. On the other hand, many times it looks and feels ok. Note that I'm already 54y old and I'm very stiff with limited range of motion. On my to do list I have "streaching" and "flexibility".


You don't get to complain until you catch up with me. Heh....I turn 57 next month!.

 

And yes I'm still always fighting that limited ROM too. Keep at it!.

 

I actually took my L3 teach with a tweaked back. Couldn't sit for more than a few minutes without pain when getting back up. The chair lift rides and unloading was torture.. I stood for most of our follow up interviews and video MA portions just so I would not have to go from sitting to standing. As long as I was moving, it was fine.

post #17 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
 

Love your videos and your skiing Tom!

 

I do want royalties on the concept of 3 point separation though! :D

 

The royalties goes to SkiMangoJazz offcourse! Glad you picked up on it. See, even I can learn something and also give credit where it belongs :). Thanks!

 

BTW, do you think it shows in any way? Does it look ok? Do I get your approval?

 

You are the best!

 

Yes you have my approval and it looks great to me.  Whether I see the 3 way (point) separation or not, not sure honestly.

post #18 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
 

 

You are the best!

 

Yes you have my approval and it looks great to me.  Whether I see the 3 way (point) separation or not, not sure honestly.

 

Check this out:

 

 

On the left the traditional "Superman" drill. On the right the reverse Superman drill I call "007". The photos should be quite comparable since they are taken from the same footage. Especially the ones in the lower row look interesting. Don't you think. MA please.

post #19 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
 


You don't get to complain until you catch up with me. Heh....I turn 57 next month!.

 

And yes I'm still always fighting that limited ROM too. Keep at it!.

 

I actually took my L3 teach with a tweaked back. Couldn't sit for more than a few minutes without pain when getting back up. The chair lift rides and unloading was torture.. I stood for most of our follow up interviews and video MA portions just so I would not have to go from sitting to standing. As long as I was moving, it was fine.

 

Ouch, skiing with a sore back is painful. Thanks for the anecdote. I been in that exact same situation. Before the pain killers kick in.... sometimes they don't... :mad

post #20 of 47
You guys have no idea about ROM issues. Wait another 20 years or so.
post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post

You guys have no idea about ROM issues. Wait another 20 years or so.


Gee. thanks!

post #22 of 47
Thread Starter 

Here is the 3:45 clip in slowmotion:

 

post #23 of 47
instead of thinking "delayed pressure" think "more progressive edge earlier" both on the the initiation and progressively less edge on the release rather than the quick release. (Also think earlier)

We are still talking real fast at the speed you are going but if you can do it all with less abrupt move that would really step up those turns. Let the weight/pressure go where it does and manage it. Think about the edge movements comming from the bottoms of your feet and from the ankles. Be accurate and you will be rewarded! Thinking about those edges earlier but more progressively will result in an earlier edge engagement and if progressive, oddly enough it will "delay" where the pressure ramps up and give you more time to deal with the forces.
post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
 ,
. Let the weight/pressure go where it does and manage it

What the hell does it mean to manage the pressure????  How, where, why, when.  What will the result be if you "manage" the pressure.      Do I want more pressure, less pressure and when?     Where does this pressure come from?     YM

post #25 of 47

Your last day skiing snow was a lot firmer than my slush.  Or did you only video in the morning?

post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art of Skiing View Post
 

 

@tdk6
Nice going tdk! If I were you I would add two things to your skiing:
1. Delay your edge angles (and I would practice this on ski's with a large turning radius) 
2. Inside leg flexion from the fall line onwards to make the outside ski even more dominant 
 

 

I agree. One of my pet peeves is that a good turn should always have up or down acceleration. If you are stuck without it the turn will "die". The most common place is in the middle of the turning phase. There can be several different reason and I think two of the more common are listed by Art of Skiing above. 

Regarding 1. I think this is often related to throwing in all the hip angulation too early. If you do that you loose the dynamic balance because you cannot incline the CoM any more. With GS turns on SL skis I want to see something more like this. With longer turns you would have less float and more rise in transition.

post #27 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

Your last day skiing snow was a lot firmer than my slush.  Or did you only video in the morning?

If you follow the latitude line from Levi to the US you end up in northern Alaska!

post #28 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogaman View Post

What the hell does it mean to manage the pressure????  How, where, why, when.  What will the result be if you "manage" the pressure.      Do I want more pressure, less pressure and when?     Where does this pressure come from?     YM

Do I really need to answer this?

Pressure created by centrifugal forces and centripetal forces from the snow/ski interaction. Also turning and gravity create some of these forces.

If you are patient and accurately guide the skis to an edge, they will interact with the snow, and begin to turn. The guide to an edge will require turning your femurs in the hip sockets (passive rotary if you will) as the skis engage and begin to turn and bend, there will be forces being built up as well. If you don't balance against the pressure or push back (manage) with correct amount, you will upset the balance. tdk6 shows the balance skills to keep from falling over. Physics tell us the weight will go to the outside ski. Trying to push too hard on the inside ski will also upset the balance. Just bracing against the forces will almost always cause the ski to break away. By relaxing or letting go of some of the pressure, you dissipate some of the energy (also a form of managing pressure)

By learning to "feel, and adjust" to what the terrain, snow, and skis throw at you, you can make the turns more and more efficient.
post #29 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

Your last day skiing snow was a lot firmer than my slush.  Or did you only video in the morning?

 

No, it was like this all day. -20 in the night and -2 to -5 during the day. Just looked at the wether report and they predict perfect conditions for eastern up north. The funny thing is that the sun rises really early and sets late in the evening. At 7pm when the lifts closed the mountain was still flooded with sunlight. Sunset at close to 9pm. Sunrise at 6:18am. So called Hero snow. Great season ending. Got 94 ski days this winter.

post #30 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post
 

 

I agree. One of my pet peeves is that a good turn should always have up or down acceleration. If you are stuck without it the turn will "die". The most common place is in the middle of the turning phase. There can be several different reason and I think two of the more common are listed by Art of Skiing above. 

Regarding 1. I think this is often related to throwing in all the hip angulation too early. If you do that you loose the dynamic balance because you cannot incline the CoM any more. With GS turns on SL skis I want to see something more like this. With longer turns you would have less float and more rise in transition.

 

 

I agree perfectly on the up and down acceleration momentum being important. Sometimes when your timing is perfect you can actually keep your upper body vertically stable and just flex and extend your legs and still have sufficient up-down acceleration through inertia but most of the time this up-down movement needs to be present. If you look at guys like Reilly you can see that his CoM goes up and down quite a lot while he still flexes to release. And retracts his legs through the transition. This is the contradicting part. You go up as you flex. You go down as you extend.

 

Regarding 1. Inclining at the top of the turn and at apex kicking in with angulation, counter and tipping progressively. Forcing vaulting at the end of the turn. Triggering the vaulting effect by releasing the outside ski late. Vaulting starts before the release. This is what Ted told me when I spoke to him. Hold on to your edge angles and outside ski pressure all the way to the very end of the turn. Aim for that Crossing effect when skis cross the path of your CoM. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it so that Reilly's hips are lifted up from close to the snow into the toilet seat transition position by the vaulting effect?

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