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Full Tilt Classic Size Question

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

Hello to all members of the forum!

I am on the process of buying my first pair of ski boots and I decided to buy the Full Tilt Classic Model to fit my narrow feet. My measurements are:

1) Foot length: 25.3-25.7 cm

2) Foot width: 94-95 cm

3) Instep height: 26cm

4) Level: Beginner-Intermediate

 

The shell fit on 25.5 size model was 1.4cm and on 26.5 was 2.4 cm.

Both models felt really snug especially on the instep (the shorter size more).

I decided to go by the book and choose the smaller model the 25.5, although it was less comfortable and roomy.

 

My first two hours of skiing upgrading from Rentals to Full tilt felt like crying from happiness. I could do things I never could have imagined. I had the boots really loosely buckled because they still felt quite snug. And then .. came the pain and numbness on toes caused by lost blood circulation.

I was able to go through it by doing short breaks and unbuckling the boot completely to take the foot out. Finally I could not ski more, the feeling was unbearable.

The next day at home, I tried wearing them for a couple of hours more and the pressure on the point where the tongue meets the shell was always there and causing discomfort. Obviously, i have a relatively high instep especially for Full Tilts shell.

 

Also, I should notice that my toes were touching the front most of the time while skiing, but that did not bother me that much, except from when I was hitting bumps, where it felt painful. But keep in mind that since I am a beginner, my technique is not the best and i am not flexing so much, so I suspect that this may have also caused the fingers to slide forward. 

 

My question to you guys is whether I should keep my boot and be patient hoping things will improve or go with the one size up.

The main problem is the pressure on instep, there is not much room there. Will it get better with time? Will it help to heat mold the liners or buy a heat molded footbed?

Should i sacrifice the "shell fit by the book" of my current boots for a bit more comfort that the one size up will offer or that will cost me lack of control in the long run?
 

Best regards!

post #2 of 17

I own and use the Full Tilt Classic about half the time(have two pair of boots).  I have a high instep and have decided that FT boots just aren't made for someone with a high instep.  There are some things you need to know about Full Tilts that are not on their website but any half-decent boot fitter should know and should have told you.  First, the sole on the Intuition liner is 9mm thick.  The industry standard is 2mm.  That 7mm makes a huge difference is fit.  I cannot use mine with custom footbeds which I need. I resorted to buying a new liner, the Intuition Pro Wrap which has a 2mm sole.  It made a huge difference.  Did the store where you bought these not suggest that you heat mold them right then?  The liners need to be heat molded and you need to wear toe caps when you do it.  Be prepared because it will not be a pleasant experience, it hurts.  If the place where you bought them doesn't have an oven or any other equipment for molding the liners, just get a refund and find a real boot fitter.  Did you choose this boot because it fit better than any others or because it's a cabrio boot or for some other reason?  There are many other narrow boots and there are boots that narrower than Full Tilts.

post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 


Hello!

Wow, so many information that I never knew, I am genuinely impressed!

I bought them in Austria, where they do not really have any boot fitters. The salesperson guy that helped me was really knowledgeable compared to the other ones in town, which no-one even bothered measuring my foot, but still he was not a professional bootfitter.

I did not choose them because of hype or anything. I actually have never heard about them before. The salesperson guy recommended them for me, because I told him that i always felt like "swimming" in rental boots and this was the narrower model he had. He told me that unless i want to go to racing boots like Lange, which are not my level and would kill me, Full Tilt was the only narrow model in < 100mm for Beginner/Intermediate skiers and that the forward stance and natural flex would also promote good skiing habits for me to improve my skiing.

 

Having heard that about the liners from you, made me feel like "oh damn, I wish I knew it before.."

Is the Intuition Pro Liner the one named "Pro Aftermarket Boot Liner" that you could find on FT website?

The good news is that the shop does have a device to heat mold the liners.

 

Thanks for your answer

post #4 of 17

Intuitions need to be either heat molded at the start or they require about 3 days of skiing (full days) to form to your foot.

 

I choose the latter path for the last two pair of boots after heat molding the previous boots.   No complaints.  In fact I feel the "wait it out" method provides an optimal fit and liner life.   but I have a rather high threshold for foot discomfort. ;-)

All three boots were fitted with the Intuition overlap liner.

 

I suggest you have the liners molded before trying other remedies.

post #5 of 17
Full Tilt Flexon boots can be easily modified by a good bootfitter to create more room over the instep through heating and opening up the slot in the lower shell on which the external tongue rests. A bootfitter might also shave down the footboard under the liner to effectively lower the foot in the shell creating more room over the instep.
The Flexon can be easily modified by a good bootfitter to deal with other issues, as well.

The shell size you have seems right to me. One way to check it at home is to pull your foot back in the shell so that your heel is firmly in the heel pocket and buckle the boots firmly. Buckle the middle buckle first then the top buckle and finally the toe buckle. If your toes are not hitting the front of your boot and you can wiggle them a little you should be fine as far as length. Keeping your buckles loose to try to deal with the instep issue may be causing your foot to slide forward in the shell when skiing causing your "toe bang".

Unless you have a very rigid foot you can likely benefit from a footbed. I would also have the liner "cooked".

Full Tilts use Intuition closed cell foam liners which do not pack out much with use. So for sure I would see a good bootfitter that works with Full Tilts to discuss the most appropriate remedies.

Getting a boot a size too big will create its own set of problems which will be more difficult or impossible to correct since a too big boot cannot really be made shorter.

I skied in Raichle Flexons for years. Full Tilt bought the Raichle molds and continued to produce the Flexon under their brand name and expanded the model line. The Flexons are a fun boot. A lot of park and mogul skiers especially like them. As for me, I ultimately changed to a four buckle conventional two piece shell about five years ago which I decided works better for me in the conditions
I most typically now ski. But I still have my Flexons.
Good luck.
Edited by Lostboy - 3/19/17 at 3:39pm
post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 

Hello Lostboy and thank you also for your valuable comments!

It would be really difficult to find a boot fitter in Austria to do the things you described.. 

Believe it or not they do not really exist here, as far as I searched. I would most probably need to travel to another country.

 

I did the test you mentioned (with the liners on) and i touch a bit the front and i can still move my toes. The more i flex my knees the less i touch the front, so I guess the size must be good.

I just cannot flex my knees much while skiing with FT :)

I am now wearing my FT while writing on my computer and i need to mention that by sitting is way worse pressure on instep than standing.

Wearing a footbed, although good in general, I am afraid it will use more volume and shrink the free space and make the situation worse for my instep.

 

Do you also think that changing the Intuition liner to a thinner one as mtcyclist proposed would solve the issue without resolving to a boot fitter?

They definitely seem a fun boot and I hope i can enjoy and ski in them.

Thanks

post #7 of 17

Well you came to the right place for help.  There is at least one excellent boot fitter in Austria and it would be worth it for you to visit him.  His name is Fabien Stiepel and he's located in Kaprun.  I recommend you see him before you spend nearly $200 on a better liner.  And I have to say it is inexcusable for any place that sells Full Tilt or any boot with an Intuition liner to not have toe caps.  And, to further irritate me, the guy you dealt with either doesn't know anything or just plain lied to you.  Atomic, Salomon, Lange, Head and Nordica all make boots that aren't race boots and are narrow enough for your feet.  My Head Hammer 110 boots are a 98mm last, narrower than Full Tilts and have more instep room and they aren't race boots.

post #8 of 17
I can't say whether changing the liner will solve your problem. It might or it might not.

You are correct that a footbed will take up some additional room in the boots but that Should not be an issue if a bootfitter opens up the slot on the lower shell and/or grinds down the footboard.

Whether you stick with the Full Tilts or go with another narrow lasted boot you may well need some tweaks that require the services of a competent bootfitter. Given the national sport status alpine skiing has in Austria they have to be around. A good bootfitter can also tell you whether you can benefit from footbeds.

Following up with mtcyclist's suggestion sounds like a very good idea to me.

Having well fitting boots can make all the difference in your enjoyment of the sport and how quickly you progress. It will be well worth it to have things done right.
Good luck.
post #9 of 17

Perhaps a thinner insole would provide more instep room.! 

 

At least a place to start.

post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 

Thanks for all the suggestions you all three!

Yes I feel lucky that I came to the right place ;)

Mtcyclist your recommendation about a bootfitter in Kaprun was excellent, really!

I will try to contact him, since Kaprun is a 3-hours drive away from the town I am located. It might also be a chance to finally ski at a bigger resort.

Now regarding your comment about other narrow boot models, I am still not sure if they correspond to my level of skiing.

I only started skiing this year, so I am still learning! 

I tried for example once to ski on a brand new Atomic Hawx Prime Pro 100 and I found it incredibly stiff, I could not really flex it!

I am also quite lean measuring 1.80m and 65kg ( 5.9 inches, 143 pounds ) so this might also play a role in me not being able to flex a stiffer boot.

Or simply put, it can just be my lack of proper technique.

I wish I could find some really narrow width 96-99mm boot in a 80-90 Flex for example. In this sense the Full Tilts with their Progressive Flex felt much softer compared to a 100 Flex.

But perhaps you or Mr.Stiepel could suggest me some other boots that would be more proper for me to fit my foot and my skiing style.

I feel a lot more knowledgeable after talking to you guys!

 

P.S. Do you think guys that it is true that with Full Tilts having that excessive forward stance will teach me to ski better? It is a novice mistake as you all know to not put your weight forward and lean back and with FT this error feels harder to be made.

post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowBeginner View Post
 

I am also quite lean measuring 1.80m and 65kg ( 5.9 inches, 143 pounds ) so this might also play a role in me not being able to flex a stiffer boot.

 

But perhaps you or Mr.Stiepel could suggest me some other boots that would be more proper for me to fit my foot and my skiing style.

 

Do you think guys that it is true that with Full Tilts having that excessive forward stance will teach me to ski better?

You're about my size, I'm 170cm, 68kg.  My Head Hammer boots are 110 flex and it is a stiff 110.  Experience and proper technique are important to helping you flex a boot.  You want one you can flex without much difficulty in the shop where it's warm.  It will then stiffen up outside when skiing.

 

I cannot, nor can anyone else here, recommend a boot.  Fabien will be able to do that once he sees your feet.  And, I highly recommend you make an appointment in advance.

 

Full Tilts have excessive forward stance?  Really.  Did someone tell you that.  There is a little wedge at the back of the boot, just above the heel that can be changed.  My FT boots are set for the most upright stance and they're fine.  Excessive forward lean in the boots will not help you ski better.  Excessive forward lean is more likely to teach you to sit back(ski in the backseat).  If your knees are in front of your toes, you'll most likely be in the back seat.

 

Also, I want to point out that I did not suggest you spend $200 on new liners.  That was what I did and if I didn't work part-time in a shop I'm not sure I would have.

post #12 of 17

180 cm = 5.11 :D 

175 = 5.9

post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg S View Post
 

180 cm = 5.11 :D 

175 = 5.9


Google conversion fail :)

I always gain some height in Europe :p

post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post
 

 Experience and proper technique are important to helping you flex a boot.  

I guess i lack on both :) 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post
 

I cannot, nor can anyone else here, recommend a boot.  Fabien will be able to do that once he sees your feet.  And, I highly recommend you make an appointment in advance.

I already did make an appointment, thanks again for an excellent recommendation. I will let you know how it went.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post
 

Full Tilts have excessive forward stance?  Really.  Did someone tell you that.

Again the salesman I am afraid :) And some posts I have read on Internet, about people complaining when skiing with them, that their quads are "on fire" due to different skiing style with FT. No idea if that is true, perhaps you can tell me more.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post
 

Excessive forward lean in the boots will not help you ski better.  Excessive forward lean is more likely to teach you to sit back(ski in the backseat).  If your knees are in front of your toes, you'll most likely be in the back seat.

 

 

That is also something else i did not know. I am afraid the latter happens with me quite often.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post
 

Also, I want to point out that I did not suggest you spend $200 on new liners.  That was what I did and if I didn't work part-time in a shop I'm not sure I would have.

 

No problem, I understood your point, that it just has worked out well with you. You wanted to emphasise the difference in liners thickness. 

post #15 of 17

When someone complains about their quads burning while skiing it is because they are in the backseat.  Most of the park skiers I see are in the backseat.  Do you know what a "wall sit" is?  Try it and see how long it takes for your quads to start screaming.  A wall sit is an exaggeration of how some people ski.  If they butt is behind their heels, they're in the backseat and skiing will not be pleasant.

 

Glad you made an appointment with Fabien.  You are definitely in good hands there.

post #16 of 17
Thread Starter 

Just an update, Fabien did a great job with my boots. He warmed up the liners and did some small modifications and now there is a huge improvement, meaning no pain anymore. They even start feeling a bit bigger :) Fabian also said, that the choice of FT was a good one, because I am a beginner level and the flex is soft and furthermore is combined with a narrow last that suits my feet. He even recommended my next boots, after a couple of years when I get better, to be some teenager race boots in order to accomodate my extremely narrow foot, which is even less than 95mm wide. He is also a very friendly and amazing guy. As for footbeds, I did not risk using them yet, being afraid of the extra volume they might create and Fabian agreed on that. Perhaps in the future.

He did not get me into buying some new boots, because he said he always prefers working with what we have already. Also the size i have chosen was perfect, he measured my feet and  they were 25cm, so 25.5 was good. Also he commented that feeling my toes touching the front before warming the liners is perfectly normal and also a good indication of correct size.

post #17 of 17
Glad to hear that things worked out for you with mtcyclist's recommendation of a bootfitter. The reason why your stock Intuition liner has a thick footbed is that when heated it is supposed to eliminate the need for a custom footbed. How well it works I can not say as I always used a custom footbed.

If you should decide to get a custom
footbed in the future, you can have your boots modified to create room for them or buy an Intuition liner model with a thin sole.
Happy skiing.🙂
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