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post #61 of 199

What's a comparable activity to skiing and what does it cost?  Is skiing more or less fun than a day at an amusement park (Disney World)?  Is it more or less fun than renting a jet ski for 4 hours?

 

Skiing isn't cheap, but I don't think it is significantly worse than similar kinds of fun activities.  And yes, if you don't put significant effort into planning, expect to pay more.

post #62 of 199
Considering that a day at Disney World would be the day from hell for me, skiing is cheap.

I'm trying to think how much you'd have to pay me to accompany you to Disney World. I might do it for $750.
post #63 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexSkier View Post
 

What's a comparable activity to skiing and what does it cost?  Is skiing more or less fun than a day at an amusement park (Disney World)?  Is it more or less fun than renting a jet ski for 4 hours?

 

Skiing isn't cheap, but I don't think it is significantly worse than similar kinds of fun activities.  And yes, if you don't put significant effort into planning, expect to pay more.

 

Those are good points. But I would say it's a constant complaint that the percentage of the population that can afford things like that is shrinking. So it's not just the cost, it's also that it limits how many folks can enjoy it - skiing, sporting events, amusement parks, etc.

 

I don't know if that's true, but it seems to be a perception. I wonder if there's any data out there on that?

post #64 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Considering that a day at Disney World would be the day from hell for me, skiing is cheap.

I'm trying to think how much you'd have to pay me to accompany you to Disney World. I might do it for $750.

Ditto on that. Thankfully my kids are past the Disney age. It was two mind numbing boring days out of my life when we went a few years ago.
Just had aquantances report on their NINE days straight at Disney. The thirty year old couple and the young man's parents (late fifties) had a great time apparently. The travelled from Australia for that shit. I asked did they know the Grand Canyon and 14000 foot mountains were just up the road?

Back to topic.
post #65 of 199

I couldn't have afforded to ski earlier in my life.  Certainly not while DD was playing hockey!  Nor those college years . . .

 

There are some inexpensive options, though, aren't there?  Small mountains with reasonable prices?  Ski clubs?  A local club-operated ski area's most expensive lift ticket is $44, and if you ski on Friday or in the evening, much less.  Season pass $369.  (Blandford, MA)  I believe the snowmaking is quite limited or nonexistent, so a season's pass would be a gamble.

 

At nearby Otis Ridge, an even smaller mountain, $40 on weekends and $20 on weekdays.

 

And of course, Berkshire East, the no-crowds, good choice of terrain mountain an hour from home.  ~$665 season pass, if I remember correctly.  Bring your own lunch.  No need to rent a locker; pile your stuff in the lodge like everybody else.

 

I personally couldn't learn on borrowed equipment; I need all the help I can get, so I bought decent boots and all of the layers, rented skis for the season.  But better athletes might be able to begin on borrowed or used equipment - many do. 

 

Of course these ski areas don't give the same experience as huge, varied, expensive resorts.  But one can learn, and ski every weekend, if one of these smaller hills is near enough.

post #66 of 199

Wachusett has a weekday only pass for around $269 and adds weekends early and late season for a little more. 

 

A lot of retired or self employed people ski there a lot of weekday mornings.  That's cheap.

post #67 of 199
Thread Starter 
I have an "old guys" pass at Gore here in NY; $200, no restrictions....great deal by any standards. My complaint is that I like to mix it up occasionally and go somewhere else for a day trip, (I ski midweek only, no holidays). That's when I get stung. Liftopia has helped a lot, but not all areas offer a decent discount, some none at all; Vail resorts for instance. Not that I'm going to a Vail resort anytime soon, but I'm sure there are others in my same situation. I'm most like not going west again for lots of reasons, cost being one and the altitude issue affects me badly the first few days. I really did enjoy 25+ years of western vacations. I really envy you folks that can take advantage of early Epic pass deals! (Though I don't envy you weekend warriors that have to deal with I70). Season passes here in the east at the bigger resorts tend to be much more pricy.
Cheers!
post #68 of 199

Max Pass gets you 5 days each at Okemo, Killington, Pico, Stratton, and few others in NH and Maine. I'm thinking that's your best bet for variety nearby at a decent cost. Not sure if there's a Senior rate though.

post #69 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.B. View Post

I have an "old guys" pass at Gore here in NY; $200, no restrictions....great deal by any standards. My complaint is that I like to mix it up occasionally and go somewhere else for a day trip, (I ski midweek only, no holidays). That's when I get stung. Liftopia has helped a lot, but not all areas offer a decent discount, some none at all; Vail resorts for instance. Not that I'm going to a Vail resort anytime soon, but I'm sure there are others in my same situation. I'm most like not going west again for lots of reasons, cost being one and the altitude issue affects me badly the first few days. I really did enjoy 25+ years of western vacations. I really envy you folks that can take advantage of early Epic pass deals! (Though I don't envy you weekend warriors that have to deal with I70). Season passes here in the east at the bigger resorts tend to be much more pricy.
Cheers!


Wow - you started a whiny thread about prices and you have a $200 unrestricted Gore pass?

 

I just did a quick liftopia search for Wed, March 8, 2017 for an adult ticket. I included 2 ticket prices for seniors.

Okemo $62, 70 or older is $43

Mt Snow $46, 65 or older is $35

Killington $68,

Jay 49

Stratton 49

Smugglers 35

Sugarbush 66

Stowe 92

Burke 40

Bolton 32

MRG 39

SuicideSix 16

Bousquet 16

Otis Ridge 12

Whiteface 50

Hunter 45

Belleayre 33

West 21 for an 8 hour ticket, 17 for a 4 hour ticket

 

There are a load of cheap tickets available for NH, too. I guess you just want to ski for free.

 

By the way, my Stratton non-holiday season pass was $450. Not exactly breaking the bank, and I could have added a MAX pass for $299.

https://www.themaxpass.com/

 

There are plenty of ways to make skiing affordable.

 

 

 

 

post #70 of 199
Thread Starter 
No need to flame guy! My point is the RESORTS should be the ones cutting us a break. We shouldn't have to go to websites to get a deal. Besides, the Liftopia tickets are limited, kinda like what the airlines do with their "cheap"seats.
$92 at Stowe is a good deal?
Peace!
post #71 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.B. View Post

My point is the RESORTS should be the ones cutting us a break.

Why? Why should they? What would they gain? What would they lose?
post #72 of 199
Thread Starter 
No sense in continuing if you can't see what they'd gain? IMHO, it shouldn't be all about money!
I'm out!
post #73 of 199
if you want to take disneyland as an example their breakeven is 7.5 to 10 single day trips to a pass.

epicpass and others are hovering instead around 4 or 5. so definitely there is more unfairness for the destination traveller at the 4or5 ratio and a push to lock locals into a pass and steal them away from competitors.
if you read the vail resorts annual report they explicitly go over this strategy of designating buyers either as locals or destination travelers and the approach for each.

I personally think the 4x ratio is unhealthy and something around 10x would be better for the consumer.
post #74 of 199

Plug in your yesteryear prices in the link below, and see how much resorts should be charging today.

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/

You're welcome. :D

post #75 of 199

Once you race or have kids that race you will see free skiing as a bargain!

 

When my older boy went away to college and was done racing, we got a huge raise. 

 

Tuition and room and board and food, were cheaper than ski racing.

post #76 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.B. View Post

No sense in continuing if you can't see what they'd gain? IMHO, it shouldn't be all about money!
I'm out!

 

Why they are business their obligation is to investors and employees not to customers. I suppose we should ask the lifties to work for free since it shouldn't be about the money? 

 

I'm guessing it shouldn't be about the money unless it's your money right? 

post #77 of 199

So you think the Epic pass should be closer to $1500?  There are some resorts that do this already - like Deer Valley for instance.

 

If you want to ski 5+ days at Vail resorts, you should buy the pass.  If you don't want to commit, you will have to pay later (or go somewhere else).

 

Between rental equipment, airfare, food, and ground transport, the daily lift ticket price is "reasonable"  for the non-local skier. The destination (luxury) skier is willing to pay more per day, and Vail exploits this.  Private 1 day lesson at Vail exceeds the cost of a season pass! LOL.

 

For the local-ish guy who brings lunch and avoids paying for accommodations (or knows a guy with a condo), the pass is the way to go.  Vail is really clever with this scheme, because the cheap season pass commits a lot of avid skiers to Vail resorts.  The avid skiers then persuade their less avid friends to go to a Vail resort since their lift ticket is already paid for.

 

If you really hate Vail, buy their stock so you can share some of the economic rewards. Recently, the stock price has gone up faster than the lift tickets.

post #78 of 199

The only "unfair cost" associated with snow skiing that I consider significant is when someone books a "ski holiday" far in advance only to be presented with conditions that are not only the opposite of "recreational", but rather DOWN RIGHT DANGEROUS.  For too many,  the expense of the ticket is trivial in comparison with the medical expenses.

 

It is a weather dependent happiness to be sure.

post #79 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.B. View Post

No sense in continuing if you can't see what they'd gain? IMHO, it shouldn't be all about money!
I'm out!

I think I know what they would likely gain and lose to my thinking. I was curious what you thought they'd gain and lose... what motivation you saw for then to lower prices.
post #80 of 199

One of the big savers for Vail Resorts is the liability waiver that you have agree to buy a pass. Season pass holders are generally screwed legally if anything happens to them at the resorts.

post #81 of 199

I don't see the ski resorts belly aching that they can't make money. It's really a weather dependent sport. This year seems to have brought out the masses with the conditions being above average. As long as each year the ski resorts increase prices, and demand remains strong, they will continue to raise prices. In years past, when ski resorts are hit with bad snow years, they generally see a decline in skier visits. Normally the way the ski resorts deal with this is to entice skiers to buy early season packages for the upcoming season. That way they can get some cash flow for operations, and hopefully snag a few folks looking for a deal.

 

Skiing is not a poor persons sport. But for those folks that skiing is a way of life, they will find away to pay for living.

post #82 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Here you'd ski free.

Montana. Sounds good.
post #83 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve2000 View Post
 

While it's true that euro resorts are cheaper, that's in large part due to the fact that they don't maintain any of the off piste terrain. So yes, once you are in the alps the lift tickets cost less, but you also can't ski on off piste avalanche controlled terrain.  What's more, if you get injured off piste in the Alps you're generally on your own because their off piste regions are not patrolled.  Plus, good luck finding good tree skiing at most Euro resorts!

 

So yeah, the prices suck, but the reason most US areas cost more is because a LOT more work goes into maintaining the slopes.  Still sucks though, and that's why I sometimes like to visit the more laid back small areas such as Discovery or Schweitzer or the aforementioned Monarch and Wolf.

 

The thing you forget is that European resorts groom a much larger percentage of their trails.

 

For example, PCMR only grooms their greens and some of their blues on normal days. A place like the Espace Killy (Val d'Isere and Tignes) will groom every single marked trail on the mountain on a normal day except for the handful of trails marked as "nature pistes." And since they have nearly 200 miles of groomers, they need a lot more equipment and manpower to do that. Also, they do have to do avalanche control on all of the terrain that sits above marked trails, lifts and buildings, which is a fair bit of terrain.

 

So while US resorts might do more avi control, European resorts do quite a lot more grooming.

 

In terms of off-piste rescues, all it takes is a phone call, which is pretty much the same as on piste. (It's not common for a patroller to happen upon an injured skier on piste; they're called to the scene in most cases.) The only time you're truly on your own off piste is if you're dumb enough to ski on your own in an area that is completely out of site and you hurt yourself too badly to make a phone call.

post #84 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

You could have simply stopped there. Running a ski resort, especially in the east, is EXPENSIVE. Think they could do less snowmaking, less grooming and charge less for a place with few amenities? How has that worked out for all the small ski areas? Not very well. An economist would notice that.
that's got nothing to do with the prices resorts are charging.

The issue is that there's no competition and no new resorts, so they are doing what's economically sensible from their standpoint. When you have a monopoly, you raise prices.

Look at Europe, where there are a lot of resorts, and a lot of competition.

Ski tickets,30-50, private ski lessons, 45-50 per hour, instead of 150 to 200.

And this is in big resorts, so please don't try to compare to small us ski areas.
post #85 of 199
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexSkier View Post

So you think the Epic pass should be closer to $1500?  There are some resorts that do this already - like Deer Valley for instance.

If you want to ski 5+ days at Vail resorts, you should buy the pass.  If you don't want to commit, you will have to pay later (or go somewhere else).

Between rental equipment, airfare, food, and ground transport, the daily lift ticket price is "reasonable"  for the non-local skier. The destination (luxury) skier is willing to pay more per day, and Vail exploits this.  Private 1 day lesson at Vail exceeds the cost of a season pass! LOL.

For the local-ish guy who brings lunch and avoids paying for accommodations (or knows a guy with a condo), the pass is the way to go.  Vail is really clever with this scheme, because the cheap season pass commits a lot of avid skiers to Vail resorts.  The avid skiers then persuade their less avid friends to go to a Vail resort since their lift ticket is already paid for.

If you really hate Vail, buy their stock so you can share some of the economic rewards. Recently, the stock price has gone up faster than the lift tickets.

Of course not!! I was saying that I wish we out here could get those prices. And I do NOT hate Vail, I love the place. Just think their prices for those who can't get enough days to justify a pass get porked. OK?
post #86 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.B. View Post

No need to flame guy! My point is the RESORTS should be the ones cutting us a break. We shouldn't have to go to websites to get a deal. Besides, the Liftopia tickets are limited, kinda like what the airlines do with their "cheap"seats.
$92 at Stowe is a good deal?
Peace!


I was going to leave Stowe out as it is clearly an outlier, but then I correctly figured you would focus on Stowe. Once again, you are complaining about a place you would never day trip. I would guess a guy with a Gore pass is too far from Stowe and on top of the time would never be able to afford the gas to get to Stowe.

 

So to be clear, you want to ski at one of the most expensive places in the East for what you would pay at Suicide Six? Would that be ok?

I want to drive a Porsche, but I own a VW. Why doesn't Porsche sell their vehicles for VW prices? They could sell so many more vehicles.:ROTF 

post #87 of 199

Mod hat on:

 

Gentlemen, gentlemen (and/or ladies), the proposition is reasonable: skiing is getting too expensive.

 

A. Normal folks find it prohibitive; you have to be well-off to afford it, and that seems to be the trend.

 

Also reasonable is:

 

B. There are ways of making it cheaper. Resorts have small margins — and are subject to weather & climate problems. Skiing is an optional recreational activity. 

 

Neither position is laughable; certainly neither is contemptible. We can all admit that lift-ticket prices have soared, and that's lamentable. We can also agree that, with ingenuity, people can still ski.

 

Mod hat off.

post #88 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post


The issue is that there's no competition and no new resorts, so they are doing what's economically sensible from their standpoint.

This is the main reason day ticket prices have soared.  A competitive market is very different, take two movie theaters in a town as an example

 

Theater A charges $50 per movie or 300 per year.  Theater B charges $10 per movie.  In this scenario almost no one buys single movie tickets from Theater A.

post #89 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin211 View Post
 

Funny we are talking about this, my wife who doesn't ski, but my son and I do, every year we get into a fight over how much money i spend on this sport...But as i always say its father son time as i work a ton during the week.

ticket prices where we ski run 89.00 all day

Fuel 100.00

Lunch 20.00

toll 40.00

private ski instructor 60.00 every wkend 

 

new equipment this year as son out grew the old 

Same. I justify it because if we buy our pass at the end of the season for next it is 899 and he is free. Get out gear at a ski swap (less than $100 for both of us). We live about 30 minutes from the mountain and go every weekend, holiday and vacation. I also have a flexible schedule and can usually ski a day or two each weekday. I can usually squeak in an extra 15-20 days on top of my son. We bring our food and drinks. Add all that up and divide by staying inside all damn winter and being depressed waiting for warmer weather and I think it cost me less than .009 cents a day lol. 899+100/1,000,000 = .0009 You really can't put a price on medication either and being on the snow rippin down a mountain is the best drug I can imagine! 

 

I do agree the walk up price is a lot. I think it is there to make the season pass deals seem better and to take advantage of those that don't plan.

Same with rental cost. $50 for equipment. 75+ for the ticket and up to 100 for a lesson. They offer a package deal with everything for 100 bucks and people jump on it. 

post #90 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanvg View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post


The issue is that there's no competition and no new resorts, so they are doing what's economically sensible from their standpoint.

This is the main reason day ticket prices have soared.  A competitive market is very different, take two movie theaters in a town as an example

 

Theater A charges $50 per movie or 300 per year.  Theater B charges $10 per movie.  In this scenario almost no one buys single movie tickets from Theater A.


In my neighborhood, there's a ton of competition — at least ten resorts within an hour an a half. More within 2-3 hours. Lack of competition isn't the case; prices are high anyway.

 

In those theater examples, both offer the same product, I assume. That's not the resort model. Resorts are bigger or smaller. They have different terrain. They do more or less snowmaking, more or less grooming. They have ritzier or less ritzy amenities. Theaters also don't have astronomical liability insurance payments.

 

It's really what the market will bear. If Stowe can persuade people to pay $124 at the window ($92 online) and enough skiers pay it, fine for Stowe (though not so great for us, of course).  I wouldn't pay $124 / day to access it (I don't care about ritz), but I'll occasionally pay $92.

 

Where I ski most, day tickets are $74 - $103 (my pass averages it out to about $30 / day if I ski 30 days a season). People are paying those rates frequently enough that the resorts can keep going. I don't really believe they're raking in the dough.

 

Yes, high prices keep people from skiing, but I see a lot of non-rich families skiing around here anyway. Eventually those may get priced out, which would be a shame.

 

For that matter, there may be no skiing below 10,000 feet, either.

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