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Above the fall line: flatten and drift on old edges VS tip onto new edges - Page 3

post #61 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
 
  • Extension – Technique Yes, but a tactic applied in the context of fall away turns (No, the best thing a skier can do before a fall away turn is absorb... then extend as they normally would to maintain contact with the snow, watch the Levi SL from last weekend... application of good technique)
  • Retraction – Technique Yes, but a tactic applied in the context of deep powder (no, still technique)
  • Rotary – Technique Yes but a tactic when applied in a context of edging (I'll give you the pivot but rotary in the context of edging makes no sense)
  • Angulation – Technique Yes, but a tactic when applied in the context of anticipation (also technique... you're confusing this with timing)
  • Line – Tactic Yes, but a technique in the context of degree of turn (no, just no... this would also be a tactic)
  • Timing – Tactic Yes, but a technique when applied from a context of rhythm (now you're grabbing at straws)
  • Rhythm – Tactic Yes but a technique when applied in a context of balance (balance is the result of technique... rhythm and timing are basically the same thing... tactics)
  • Flow – Tactic Yes but a technique when applied in a context of stability (stability describes a static state, which skiing is not, so this makes no sense...)

 

Well, perhaps you caught me hedging my bets a bit to make a point. I still vehemently maintain that much of the specialized language used in many a discipline that is rooted in both anatomy and science technology and through both an intellectual and philosophical lens is highly organic in nature and therefore also highly dynamically contextual especially when paired with the most difficult language to learn for the same reason, English. As well as of which the overlaying contextually burdened concepts of tactics and technique are a prime example. All in all, I think things look better above in only black and blue. Although, I don't mind getting red every once in awhile. ;)

 

 

post #62 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post
 

 

Well, perhaps you caught me hedging my bets a bit to make a point. I still vehemently maintain that much of the specialized language used in many a discipline that is rooted in both anatomy and science technology and through both an intellectual and philosophical lens is highly organic in nature and therefore also highly dynamically contextual especially when paired with the most difficult language to learn for the same reason, English. As well as of which the overlaying contextually burdened concepts of tactics and technique are a prime example. All in all, I think things look better above in only black and blue. Although, I don't mind getting red every once in awhile. ;)

 

 

 

:words:

post #63 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpedges View Post
 

 

:words:

 

Yes, very good. A big star on your little forehead. Words are a result of learning to communicate independently ... without emojis. 

 

Sharp edges? You may very well be. Sharp tongue? Apparently not your hat. You better find something though ... winter is coming.

post #64 of 65
It is all outcome dependent and as such a tactical choice that depends on intended route and the speed we are traveling. Early edge to close the radius verses a longer turn where we have more time and room to establish that new edge platform is one example that requires more speed. Slower speed allows the resultant force to draw us into the fall line faster since less forward momentum is present. Throw a ball softly and it drops to the ground closer to you than it would if you threw the ball harder. Gravity still acts the same in either example but the greater forward momentum carries the ball further away from you.
post #65 of 65
Teaching either alone instead of together might be questionable. Unless of course we see a bias that limits the student's versatility and their stated goal is related to one of these two maneuvers.

For example; a habitually late edge engagement caused by excessive pivotting (braquage) might lead us to explore a patience turn to calm down the big rotary input. When the centripital pull of the resultant force turns the skier into the fall line anyway, we can pose the question of need for the excessive rotary input.

For a racer type who habitually make the exact same size turn pretty well but struggles with a rhythm change and more direct lines we may explore a stivot on that more direct line and opening and closing radius turns rather than the constant radius C shaped turn (slow line fast) we teach to u12s.

For an extreme skier on steep terrain many mistakenly theorize early edge and an upside down stance are needed. The critical edge angle is still perpendicular to the balance axis but relative to the snow the angle at the end of the turn will be more parallel to the slope. To get the skis onto their downhill edges the RoM (in degrees) is much larger. Although in many cases that does not mean actually having upside down tibias as prescribed by the theorists who suggest centripital force begins only after the skis get a few degrees past flat to the snow. That is very questionable assumption since the vector for the resultant force is going to be more vertical. Meaning it is closer to parallel to the unobstructed pull of gravity which is always vertical. The reaction force gets further from vertical as the slope angle increases and thus acts less in opposition to Gravity.

Consider a 45 degree slope. When the edge platform loses edge grip that might occur when the skis are still thirty degrees from flat to the snow and the skier is only fifteen degrees from vertical. On a ten degree slope the critical edge angle (relative to that ten degree slope) and reducing the edge angles by that same one third would be about a three degree change and involve standing just three degrees from vertical. Which could be done several ways. Even everting and inverting the feet alone might accomplish that.
Add speed and obviously the critical edge angle (relative to the snow) will increase but realistically speaking a thirty degree edge angle (relative to the snow) on that ten degree slope is very unlikely. At least outside of a FIS race.

In all cases what this means is release is not when the skis go flat just when the skis lose grip. The skier can be perpendicular to the slope but it is not necessary for the new turn to start. That happens when we stop turning one way and begin turning the other. Why is somewhat irrelevent until we start actively shaping that new turn. So there you have the long drawn out reasoning behind saying "it depends" and it is always a tactical decision about route.
Edited by justanotherskipro - 11/17/16 at 4:26pm
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