Originally Posted by razie
The "fall line" is whenever the skis are pointing straight down - roughly the middle of the C turn, apex etc. Yep.
Because of the elevation, "before" is literally "above" the "fall line" i.e. above the place in the turn where the skis are pointing straight down. Yep.
Is this discussion about stivots? I didn't intend it to be. I don't quite follow the part where we're sliding on the old edges? That's a little weird following a carved turn, because to not catch an edge and fall, it means we'd have turned the skis across the direction of travel, i.e. pointing basically "up the slope"?
Here's Bode doing a stivot, break-down of images provided by Ron LeMaster:
Note that as he approaches the gate doing this stivot, he's on the new turn's edges, not his old edges.
First 4 frames, old edges. Last 2 frames, new edges.
He pivoted the skis aggressively as he flipped them onto their new edges, and at the end is scraping his way sideways before establishing a carve.
Stivots are a "drift" (I guess you could call it that) on new edges. Better yet, we could call a stivot a sideways hockey-stop without the stop,
followed by a miraculous edge engagement (not pictured) as the skier zooms away, carving the second half of the turn.
My idea for the first of the two turn entries in the thread title was drifting through the top half of the turn - on mostly "flattened" edges - waiting for
the forces under play (whatever they be) to turn the skis to point down the fall line. This is how the top half of a drifted C-shaped turn happens.
"Tips seek the fall line" is an important part of it. Thus bow-ties in the beginner corral.
Given the resistance of people here talking about the drift happening on old edges, here's my thinking.
--If a ski's shovel turns to point downhill, slipping across the surface of the snow, with the pivot point under the foot's arch,
--then that shovel needs to be on its old uphill edge.
--Otherwise, the ski edge will catch in the snow below it and face-plant will happen.
--If, however, a drifted turn entry happens with the tail slipping outward, and with the pivot point being somewhere in front of the foot...
--then the tail needs to be on its new edges to avoid catching in the snow as it slips across its surface.
--If this is the way a drifted turn entry is usually done, then we probably need to stop saying "tips seek the fall line" and start saying "tails drift outward."
So how do people understand a drifted turn entry? Maybe no one pays much attention to which edge is slightly lifted during a drifted turn entry,
so maybe all this business of which edge the top half of a drifted entry happens on is moot.
Maybe we do pay attention to where the pivot point is, though. Is it under the arch, with the tip slipping downhill across the snow,
or is it in front of the foot, with the tail slipping outward?
Maybe we don't care about this either, and maybe it makes very little difference in how effectively we turn in real time.
Whichever it is, the real reason I started this thread was to hear a discussion of WHEN anyone wants to do a drifted turn entry instead of a carved one.
So have at it, if you like.
Edited by LiquidFeet - 11/13/16 at 4:26pm