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Adjusting Head bindings for boot length

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 


Hi. I've got new skis for my wife and I am confused by the bindings. 
The boot length is 305mm. The boot is Nordica MP265. The skis are Head Super Joy.
If I put both sides of the binding to this interval (299-306 front and 303-310 in rear) the boot does not fit. I have to move the binding by one step at both ends for the boot to fit, but then the indicators are way off (307-314 in front and 311-318 in rear). 
Also, the boot seems to be off center (assuming that the center is the narrowest part of the black plastic cover). 
Any thoughts would be appreciated. 

post #2 of 15

Both your boot and your ski  should have a center mark.  Sometimes the binding plate covers the ski mark, but not usually.  The boot will have a small < notch molded in under the foot arch.  Use these marks to decide if you are centered on the ski.  The binding plate is not marked for center.

 

I like to be centered on carving skis and up to 2 cm back on off piste skis.  I often move the front and back binding points to achieve this (without making the numbers match).

 

What you have to be watching for is the forward pressure indicator on the back binding.  When the boot is locked it it should be even with the back of the binding.

 

With all that said, if you are not completely comfortable adjusting the binding for fit, DIN setting, brake operation, etc  it is best to go to a shop.

post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 

The bindings are factory mounted. I see the center line on the boot, but not on the ski.

I've purchased these skis online, hence I can not go with them to the shop.

post #4 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuikiz View Post
 

The bindings are factory mounted. I see the center line on the boot, but not on the ski.

I've purchased these skis online, hence I can not go with them to the shop.

 

You can still have your skis serviced at a shop, even if you did not buy them there. I would recommend doing that, since setting DIN's and forward pressure on a set of skis is important, and easy to get wrong if you don't know what you're doing. 

post #5 of 15

Sure you can go to a shop.  They'll charge $20 or so to set the bindings to your boots.

Remember to take the boots.  If they are busy, they might want you to leave them overnight or for a few days.

post #6 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuikiz View Post
 

The bindings are factory mounted. I see the center line on the boot, but not on the ski.

I've purchased these skis online, hence I can not go with them to the shop.

Welcome to EpicSki!  My impression is that ski shops everywhere take care of bindings for a small fee.  Not just in the U.S.  If you do not know what "forward pressure" means, then the bindings should be checked by a qualified ski technician.  Even when someone has their own skis, it's safest to have the bindings tested at the beginning of every ski season.

post #7 of 15

@zuikiz, like @liquidfeet and @marznc have said shops will set bindings for a fee.

Even though I can adjust my bindings for position and boot size and can set the DIN and forward pressure I still take my skis in to be checked.

The reason is I don't have the equipment to verify the release setting. That is, if I set to a DIN of 6.5 is the binding releasing at the correct pressure? Most of the time the markings on the binding are accurate but not always. Also, they can be off slightly ski to ski so you could have different settings right to left. Any good shop will have a device to calibrate the release so it's the same ski to ski regardless of the numbers on the binding. The shops I use even provide a print out showing the release torque vs DIN setting. My area requires yearly checks for all skis being used by instructors.

It's well worth the money.

post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 

Guys, thanks for your thoughts. I am not a novice, I had bindings set many times, but I've never encountered a situation like this.

My previous experience is mostly with Marker and Look/Rossi bindings.

On these skis, the bindings are Head Joy 9 (I believe they are actually Tyrolia).

The skis are brand new, even though they are from last season.

The shop will hardly tell me more than I know. Also, we have only one Head dealer in my hometown and they are not very friendly based on my past experience.

 

I will try to look into forward pressure adjustment, but I am not sure that this will adjust the bindings being off by two steps.

Also, as I have learned there is no center mark on Head skis, which is surprising, since it makes fine tuning of the bindings position much more difficult.

post #9 of 15

@zuikiz I'm not positive but I think there is a center mark on the Head skis but it's under the mounting plate.

You can always use a caliper and measure the waist of the ski and use the point of narrowest width to mount the boot center.

A second alternative would be to use the center of the running surface to mount the boot center.

I would suggest measuring both and seeing how they compare.

 

The attached should give you a good idea of how to set the forward pressure, http://theskimonster.com/blog/posts/how-to-adjust-your-tyrolia-ski-bindings/.

post #10 of 15

I spent a fair amount of time looking for a Tyrolia technical manual (Head owns Tyrolia) that shows that particular track without success. The best advice is to take them to a shop. Who cares if they're friendly. Or take them to any shop that sells Tyrolia bindings. If you insist on doing it yourself--you've started the right way. Now look at the forward pressure indicator--see the link RCC posted. If it's good, you're done. The ranges of the toe and heel you've set overlap.  (However, If you want to move the boot back just move toe and heel back one notch. Move them both forward if you want to move the boot forward. Then check forward pressure again. I agree that the narrowest part of the track is where the center of the boot is supposed to be, for the average skier. It is probably not at the measured center of the ski.) If the forward pressure is not correct you have to move the toe or heel or both. There may also be a forward pressure adjustment screw as shown in the link. I don't know if the rental binding heel has the screw or only adjusts by moving the toe and heel. If there is a screw you can use it to fine tune the forward pressure. The key thing is for the forward pressure to be correct--if it is too high the binding won't release, too low and it will release too easily. You can't go by whether the boot seems to fit right. Note that when clicking in the boot on the bench the binding may seem to small and you may have to push down on the heel of the boot while lifting up on the binding heel piece lever at the same time.

Did you buy the boots at the same time as the skis and bindings, or send in the boot? If so the binding was probably adjusted correctly. If not then you do have to adjust. But really--unless someone here has the definitive answer for this particular binding you really should take it to a shop.

 

Re: skimonsters binding adjustment instructions. For anyone who happens across the link and looks at Salomon--the link does not show the current STH2 series heels. Those do adjust with the end of the screw flush with the housing, a la Marker. Salomon's shop manual is easily found on the webz.

post #11 of 15

Zuik, measure the boot sole length.  It might be mismarked.  Don't expect an exact 305 mm, but it should be close.

 

Do you see a metal tab at the back of the heel binding with some small lines etched across it?  When the binding length is correct, some of those lines show, and some are hidden.  Anywhere in the range is OK.  If none of the lines show, it is too short. If they all show and there is a gap, it is set too long.

 

When you find the correct length setting, have her try that.  Then, move both toe & heel bindings forward one notch.  Try that.  Then two notches forward.  Try that.  Back one.  What feels best to her?  That's the spot to keep them in.  Or, maybe back one.  My Head Supershape i.Rally are sweet two notches forward.  A friend's Supershape i.Speed are best one notch forward.  And, it takes just seconds to make the change.

 

Don't know about the off-center.  Take a good look at the exterior of the boot.  Molded true?  Heat damage from too-hot drying?  Something on the boot that holds it out of position that can be cut away without doing damage?

post #12 of 15

Maybe try asking the guys that sold you the skis what they can do to help you out; it's in their interest to keep you buying skis and bindings from them.  You didn't see a small piece of paper with instructions hiding inside the shipping box?

post #13 of 15
Thread Starter 

I've got back to this matter over a weekend and I am still stuck.

See in the pics, how the 305mm (measured and confirmed) boot looks if the binding is adjusted for 305mm)

Another photo shows the center of the boot (see a line on the boot) with respect to what I assume is the center of the ski - both binding pieces are set by one step away from 305 mm.

Also, it seems that forward pressure is indicated by the heelpiece lever, but I have no idea how to adjust it.

 

 

 

 

 

post #14 of 15

You can see the forward pressure indication marks in your first picture,   On my Head Freeflex Pro bindings, you put a screw driver under that metal piece with the markings and pop it up.  That allows you to move the heel back and forth a bit.  Push down and that locks the heal in place.  If you check the link in post #9 above from RCC, that is the procedure for the Attack bindings.  Yours look like the Adrenalin bindings where arm is pulled up.  No screwdriver needed.  .   


Edited by JimH - 10/23/16 at 5:04am
post #15 of 15

It looks like the forward pressure on your bindings is adjusted by moving the toe and heel pieces, as you have done. There is no additional adjustment. The forward pressure is always checked with the boot in the binding. You want about 3 hashmarks showing. In your first picture it looks like the boot is in the binding with about 5  hashmarks showing, so the forward pressure is a little low. You might try moving either the toe back or the heel forward and leave the other one alone. Either way will work--either will still leave the heel and toe in ranges that overlap. If that doesn't increase the forward pressure enough you would then move the other piece. As I said before, sometimes it seems like the boot won't fit if you're fitting it on the bench, unless you lift up on the heel piece top lever (not the heel position lever) at the same time. The boot will still fit if someone actually steps into the binding.

 

To help you understands how this works--the heel piece is spring loaded. When you step into a properly adjusted binding the heel piece is supposed to slide back a small amount. If it doesn't move at all--forward pressure is too low. The same number of hashmarks will show whether the boot is in or out. This means the heel and toe piece are too far apart. Binding will release too easily. If the heel and toe are too close together the heel moves back too much. No hashmarks show. The binging won't release. The reason a properly set binding sometimes won't seem to fit on the bench is because when you actually step into the binding you are pushing the heel back as you step. When you are fitting on the bench you aren't strong enough to push the heel back as you insert the boot, but you can overcome that by lifting up on the heel as you push the boot into the binding. (Note--in deep snow you also might have to lift up on the heel to get back into the binding because the soft snow makes it impossible to put enough pressure on the heel piece to close it automatically.

 

As far as centering the boot, I wouldn't worry about it at this point. I'm guessing that the binding was mounted by the manufacturer and is set so that when the heel and toe pieces are located withing the same overlapping ranges the position will be correct. If your wife is not happy with how the skis work for her you can experiment by moving the heel and toe forward or back by the same amount (always recheck forward pressure). In general, moving the bindings forward will make the skis easier to turn but sacrifice stability and edge hold. You can google ski binding position to learn more.

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