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# ski lesson-parallel ski in one day (the title of the posted YouTube video)

Lets have a analytical discussion over this video. Anything particular you like or dislike about it? The title says parallel skiing in one day. However, lets not focus on the speed of teaching the parallel turn but instead focus on the movements used.

Here is the instructors 5 steps method if I have understood it correctly:

1. flex

2. extend

4. release edges

Number 2 and 3 are done simultaneously. Number 4 straight after number 2 and 3.

T

And plant the wrong pole for your final turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson

And plant the wrong pole for your final turn.

?

Analytical? I'd really like to be analytical, but it would be such a waste of time. I could only watch the first minute or so and another 30 seconds when I could jump ahead a bit to the point where he says you need to start your turn with your heels unweighted. That was all I could take. I've taught never evers to parallel ski in 90 minutes. It can be done. I'm sure this technique can actually teach some people to parallel ski in one day. I'm not as as sure about a bunch of monkeys in front of typewriters turning out a novel if given enough time, but you get the analogy. Mr. Hall has obviously taught skiing and had some success, but the clues that this is a waste of time are many (e.g. demonstrating walking with skis on without having skis on).

One example is the flex and extend to up-unweight to start a parallel turn. When we teach a wedge turn we teach a slight extension into the new turn. Not up. Into the new turn. When we get to teaching parallel, the extension into the new turn is still there, just more pronounced. Mr. Hall almost has it right when he talks about starting the turn from a countered position. There's a chance that people following these instructions will automatically do the extension into the new turn despite the literal instructions. There's also a chance that on hill guidance can easily morph that go directly up and unweight the heels instruction into extension into the new turn.

So it could work. But in my opinion, this demo would fail at a Level III exam. It might pass a Level II exam. It's a wonderful demonstration of incomplete understanding of teaching and skiing fundamentals. So why on earth would anyone who has enough knowledge to critically analyze this want to spend an hour or more documenting every single analytical thing wrong with this when the right answer is:

Almost, but no. Go back to ski school and teach and study for a few more years.

All I had to see was the boots on his feet in the screen shot. More than enough info for analyzing things from. Then I read Rusty's comment. Yep, I was right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty

Analytical? I'd really like to be analytical, but it would be such a waste of time. I could only watch the first minute or so and another 30 seconds when I could jump ahead a bit to the point where he says you need to start your turn with your heels unweighted. That was all I could take. I've taught never evers to parallel ski in 90 minutes. It can be done. I'm sure this technique can actually teach some people to parallel ski in one day. I'm not as as sure about a bunch of monkeys in front of typewriters turning out a novel if given enough time, but you get the analogy. Mr. Hall has obviously taught skiing and had some success, but the clues that this is a waste of time are many (e.g. demonstrating walking with skis on without having skis on).

One example is the flex and extend to up-unweight to start a parallel turn. When we teach a wedge turn we teach a slight extension into the new turn. Not up. Into the new turn. When we get to teaching parallel, the extension into the new turn is still there, just more pronounced. Mr. Hall almost has it right when he talks about starting the turn from a countered position. There's a chance that people following these instructions will automatically do the extension into the new turn despite the literal instructions. There's also a chance that on hill guidance can easily morph that go directly up and unweight the heels instruction into extension into the new turn.

So it could work. But in my opinion, this demo would fail at a Level III exam. It might pass a Level II exam. It's a wonderful demonstration of incomplete understanding of teaching and skiing fundamentals. So why on earth would anyone who has enough knowledge to critically analyze this want to spend an hour or more documenting every single analytical thing wrong with this when the right answer is:

Almost, but no. Go back to ski school and teach and study for a few more years.

hahahaaa.... ok, so forget the word "analytical". My bad. Anyway, this video is probably not about an instructor getting an L2 or L3 pin. Its simple advice for the average beginner to learn the basics in a parallel turn in just one day. Obviously it would take years to master.

Ok, here we go. Your advice is to extend into the turn and not to extend to release. Could you open this up a bit more. The reason mr Hall extends to release is so that he can take the pressure off his skis downhill edges and roll his skis onto their new edges and pivot them at the same time slightly into the turn for a smooth turn entry. What you are advising is that we flex into and through the transition and the initiation and then extend into the turn. And if we do that, how can we turn our weighted skis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoldman

All I had to see was the boots on his feet in the screen shot. More than enough info for analyzing things from. Then I read Rusty's comment. Yep, I was right.

At least you think you were

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty

Analytical? I'd really like to be analytical, but it would be such a waste of time. I could only watch the first minute or so and another 30 seconds when I could jump ahead a bit to the point where he says you need to start your turn with your heels unweighted. That was all I could take. I've taught never evers to parallel ski in 90 minutes. It can be done. I'm sure this technique can actually teach some people to parallel ski in one day. I'm not as as sure about a bunch of monkeys in front of typewriters turning out a novel if given enough time, but you get the analogy. Mr. Hall has obviously taught skiing and had some success, but the clues that this is a waste of time are many (e.g. demonstrating walking with skis on without having skis on).

One example is the flex and extend to up-unweight to start a parallel turn. When we teach a wedge turn we teach a slight extension into the new turn. Not up. Into the new turn. When we get to teaching parallel, the extension into the new turn is still there, just more pronounced. Mr. Hall almost has it right when he talks about starting the turn from a countered position. There's a chance that people following these instructions will automatically do the extension into the new turn despite the literal instructions. There's also a chance that on hill guidance can easily morph that go directly up and unweight the heels instruction into extension into the new turn.

So it could work. But in my opinion, this demo would fail at a Level III exam. It might pass a Level II exam. It's a wonderful demonstration of incomplete understanding of teaching and skiing fundamentals. So why on earth would anyone who has enough knowledge to critically analyze this want to spend an hour or more documenting every single analytical thing wrong with this when the right answer is:

Almost, but no. Go back to ski school and teach and study for a few more years.

hahahaaa.... ok, so forget the word "analytical". My bad. Anyway, this video is probably not about an instructor getting an L2 or L3 pin. Its simple advice for the average beginner to learn the basics in a parallel turn in just one day. Obviously it would take years to master.

Ok, here we go. Your advice is to extend into the turn and not to extend to release. Could you open this up a bit more. The reason mr Hall extends to release is so that he can take the pressure off his skis downhill edges and roll his skis onto their new edges and pivot them at the same time slightly into the turn for a smooth turn entry. What you are advising is that we flex into and through the transition and the initiation and then extend into the turn. And if we do that, how can we turn our weighted skis?

I try to minimize my turning the skis, its much more fun to let the skis turn me. Easier too.

fom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson

And plant the wrong pole for your final turn.

?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoldman

I try to minimize my turning the skis, its much more fun to let the skis turn me. Easier too.

fom

Hmmmm.... so do I, but if you put your skis on the snow and let them lie there all day they will not move. Or turn. Its YOU that turn your skis. Not the other way around even if that is a smart way of saying it. In carving its a bit different. But even there you need to tip to turn. So your turning movement would be tipping. What is it in the basic parallel turn? Mr Newton.... An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an unbalanced force. An object in motion continues in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

This law is often called: "the law of inertia".

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson

And plant the wrong pole for your final turn.

?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoldman

I try to minimize my turning the skis, its much more fun to let the skis turn me. Easier too.

fom

Hmmmm.... so do I, but if you put your skis on the snow and let them lie there all day they will not move. Or turn. Its YOU that turn your skis. Not the other way around even if that is a smart way of saying it. In carving its a bit different. But even there you need to tip to turn. So your turning movement would be tipping. What is it in the basic parallel turn? Mr Newton.... An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an unbalanced force. An object in motion continues in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

This law is often called: "the law of inertia"

In every turn from wedge to any type of high end parallel change of direction can take place only through the interaction of the ski and the snow surface. Occasionally, it may be necessary to pivot my skis or pick them up and put them down where the need to be but as I said I try to minimize that. The skis take me where I want to go just as my bike or car take me where I want to go. Simple or complicated the tool takes me where I want to go, without the tool I wouldn't go.

Are you thinking of the ski as the object in motion? You can't separate them from the system they are attached to. You are the body in motion, the ski is just a tool.

Put the skis (without brakes) down on a slick,hard, sloping surface and they will move, and turn if you count the tip pivoting to point down hill turning.

fom

ps. Why the pole plant quote is there is a mystery to me.

Edited by fatoldman - 9/26/16 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoldman
....

ps. Why the pole plant quote is there is a mystery to me.

Around 8:40 he begins a turn after moving his downhill arm, hand, and pole backwards, rather than keeping that arm/hand/pole forward "down the hill"

It looks like he plants the "uphill" pole above the skis, behind him, then turns below that pole.

If you watch it without the words, it looks very much like he gets confused.

If you listen to the words, it makes more sense why he does this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6

Ok, here we go. Your advice is to extend into the turn and not to extend to release. Could you open this up a bit more.

Uh no. Not "my advice". This is simple stuff that is in agreement with every ski teaching method I know of.  We used to extend straight up to unweight the skis thirty years ago. You can still ski that way if you want to. But it's not a modern way to ski or teach. If you want to know how to release a weighted ski without unweighting, then do White Pass turns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6

At least you think you were

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet

Around 8:40 he begins a turn after moving his downhill arm, hand, and pole backwards, rather than keeping that arm/hand/pole forward "down the hill"

It looks like he plants the "uphill" pole above the skis, behind him, then turns below that pole.

If you watch it without the words, it looks very much like he gets confused.

If you listen to the words, it makes more sense why he does this.

Yes, its that one time only. He is getting a bit confused. Looks like he is a bit out of energy. At the very end he asks for feedback and anticipates a lot of negative feedback from instructors that don't like to teach this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty

Uh no. Not "my advice". This is simple stuff that is in agreement with every ski teaching method I know of.  We used to extend straight up to unweight the skis thirty years ago. You can still ski that way if you want to. But it's not a modern way to ski or teach. If you want to know how to release a weighted ski without unweighting, then do White Pass turns.

But I don't want to make a White Pass turn. I want to make a normal steered/brushed Parallel Turn. Yes, its old school stuff but still valid. Carving is different. There you tip to turn. In a basic steered Parallel Turn you need to get your ski tails out brushing. How do you do that? The reason you need to be able to ski steered Parallel Turns is that you cannot ride your edges in bumps, narrow passages, when skiing very slowly on a moderate or steep terrain, in the trees, in powder, in crud etc.I'm not buying into this "modern way of teaching". I think that mr Hall is not that far from the truth and it should not be written off as junk without some closer examination. Maybe its a DIRT thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoldman

In every turn from wedge to any type of high end parallel change of direction can take place only through the interaction of the ski and the snow surface. Occasionally, it may be necessary to pivot my skis or pick them up and put them down where the need to be but as I said I try to minimize that. The skis take me where I want to go just as my bike or car take me where I want to go. Simple or complicated the tool takes me where I want to go, without the tool I wouldn't go.

Are you thinking of the ski as the object in motion? You can't separate them from the system they are attached to. You are the body in motion, the ski is just a tool.

Put the skis (without brakes) down on a slick,hard, sloping surface and they will move, and turn if you count the tip pivoting to point down hill turning.

fom

ps. Why the pole plant quote is there is a mystery to me.

In the bolded part you admit that you occasionally need to pivot your skis but that you try to minimize it. So for a second, forget everything else and describe me in detail how you pivot? And in what kind of circumstances?

The pole plant is a mystery to many these days. The skiers that started to ski with carving skis or with snow boards are usually the ones that don't understand why and rightfully so because in carving or when you are riding a snowboard you don't need the poleplant. The real reason is rhythm and timing. Originally the pole plant was to be executed at the exact moment as the weight shift from the downhill ski to the uphill ski took place and in sync with the up-extension. Just like mr Hall demonstrates in his video. Today the pole plant is still used by all upper level skiers. The modern pole plant is more of a pole "tap" than a "plant" in carving but you can see every racer make one.

One way of finding out why we need a pole plant is to go skiing in powder or in bumps. Or in very difficult terrain in general. Loose a pole and you are in trouble.

Well it certainly isn't the PSIA way.  And it's not carving, not even a brushed carve.  However, with the required elements in place as demonstrated (including the step after release you edges, "turn") I can see it working.  It's your basic up-unweight pivot-turn.  Edge release, unweighted pivot on a flat ski, body facing the correct direction to assist in powering the turn.  Good direction on the pole touch so as to avoid reaching with upper body.  Upon reading the text, I envisioned nightmarish skis following upper body, but watching the video it appears a lot better.  Just because it worked 30 years ago doesn't mean it won't work today.  It would get someone started making pivoted non-carved turns, with lot's more (not yet provided) to work on after that start.

Edit: I too, like FOM, prefer a turn that isn't driven by my body pivoting the skis, and I would have some reservations introducing this means of initiating a turn at such an early stage in skier development (if I were an instructor).  It does seem a lot of skier's are permanently stuck with a pivot by default habit in their skiing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty

Uh no. Not "my advice". This is simple stuff that is in agreement with every ski teaching method I know of.  We used to extend straight up to unweight the skis thirty years ago. You can still ski that way if you want to. But it's not a modern way to ski or teach. If you want to know how to release a weighted ski without unweighting, then do White Pass turns.

But I don't want to make a White Pass turn. I want to make a normal steered/brushed Parallel Turn. Yes, its old school stuff but still valid. Carving is different. There you tip to turn. In a basic steered Parallel Turn you need to get your ski tails out brushing. How do you do that? The reason you need to be able to ski steered Parallel Turns is that you cannot ride your edges in bumps, narrow passages, when skiing very slowly on a moderate or steep terrain, in the trees, in powder, in crud etc.I'm not buying into this "modern way of teaching". I think that mr Hall is not that far from the truth and it should not be written off as junk without some closer examination. Maybe its a DIRT thing?

I'm so sorry I misunderstood. Your question made it seem as if it was not possible to release a weighted ski.

Part of my confusion is that it was my understanding that as a director of a ski school that this would all be pretty basic stuff for you. I've been talking about a basic (skidded) parallel turn. I thought the point of this thread was to solicit opinions on the concept of teaching parallel skiing to never evers/beginners in one day. Some of us here have actually done that on snow as opposed to trying to do it theoretically in a 10 minute indoor video. It's not that hard to do and it's actually pretty fun too.

BTW - if you make your basic parallel turns here in the US with just your tails brushing out, you won't even get your level 1 cert. The pivot point needs to be under foot. I've seen your skiing. You know how to do this. I mention cert to reference how basic this material is. If you've got questions at this level, your best bet is to get a manual. I'm not going to waste my time retyping what's already written up. Mr. Hall is not far from the truth, but his video is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Does anyone have any idea who first coined or started to use the term   "brushed"  parallel turns.  Does anyone have a reference in writing and what would be the source.    It appears that some use the term interchangeably with steered parallel turns.   There are only two places where I have seen or heard that term used.   One of those places is here on epic.   I have attended probably close to 75  clinics at my home mountain in the past 7 years, almost exclusively run by instructors certified by PSIA and not once have  heard that term referenced or used.    YM

YM - I like the word "brush" because it implies a gentle motion. Feather is another word that implies a very subtle and gentle motion of the edges brushing over the snow surface. In my mother language we use the word "skid" but that's considered a bad word by you from the US so I have adapted. I don't like the word "steering" because nobody has been able to define what it is, but I use it occasionally because that's standard for you guys. Still I think all of these words are describing more or less the exact same thing: the skis trawling over the snow slightly diagonal and not edge locked carving. This is a bit messy because even the word "carving" has taken on the meaning of a steered turn that is evenly brushed and not skidded

I believe the man's name was Fuller. (sorry you have to be really old to get that one)

There's a certain system (who shall remain nameless) that introduced the "B" word in conjunction with the "C" word (carve) to denote a skidded turn that was not caused by the "R" word (rotation) as a means to distinguish the difference between "their" skidded turn and the skidded turn that it claimed was endemic to PSIA teaching. If you want to make people barf, then cause some skidding by pushing your heels out. That's the bad skidding that people don't want to see. "Good" skidding is where the whole ski is skidding basically throughout the whole turn. PSIA does not use the "brushed" terminology in the manuals, but there are many instructors who do use the term regardless of the dogma they subscribe to.

Some people claim that the good skidding we do want to see happens solely by reducing the edge angle so that momentum overtakes a carving ski's ability to hold an edge. Others claim that same result can occur from "steering" (i.e. pressure applied to the sides of the boots). For the last few years here on Epic, the term brushed has been used more consistently with respect to the result than with the theory of how that result is achieved. When I see the exact same movements produced under both theories, I'm not inclined to argue either way. Thus any worry about who invented the term is similarly useless.

I can say with certainty that Hu did not invent the term.

but he is a great example of the confusion that can be caused by semantics.

Originally Posted by TheRusty

I believe the man's name was Fuller. (sorry you have to be really old to get that one)

There's a certain system (who shall remain nameless) that introduced the "B" word in conjunction with the "C" word (carve) to denote a skidded turn that was not caused by the "R" word (rotation) as a means to distinguish the difference between "their" skidded turn and the skidded turn that it claimed was endemic to PSIA teaching. If you want to make people barf, then cause some skidding by pushing your heels out. That's the bad skidding that people don't want to see. "Good" skidding is where the whole ski is skidding basically throughout the whole turn. PSIA does not use the "brushed" terminology in the manuals, but there are many instructors who do use the term regardless of the dogma they subscribe to.

Some people claim that the good skidding we do want to see happens solely by reducing the edge angle so that momentum overtakes a carving ski's ability to hold an edge. Others claim that same result can occur from "steering" (i.e. pressure applied to the sides of the boots). For the last few years here on Epic, the term brushed has been used more consistently with respect to the result than with the theory of how that result is achieved. When I see the exact same movements produced under both theories, I'm not inclined to argue either way. Thus any worry about who invented the term is similarly useless.

I am very surprised you did not mention rotating the femurs, or turning the legs, or pointing the toes, etc etc etc.

"Steering" is accomplished by applying pressure to the sides of the boots?  Well, yeah, OK.  But is that what we are supposed to say these days instead of turning the legs?

In my experience I have been able to isolate different means of "steering" my skis.  I can apply a torque directly from my body to the skis, a torque about an axis that is perpendicular to the plane of the skis, and rotate the skis about the boots,  In its purest form, this is pivoting a flat ski, best done with ski edges released and the skis not loaded.   I can also tip the skis and vary the pressure between the tips and tails to affect how much torque is acting on the skis from the snow at the tips and tails to cause the skis to rotate about an axis parallel with the snow surface.  I can also tip the skis past the critical angle and carve like I'm on rails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty

I believe the man's name was Fuller. (sorry you have to be really old to get that one)

There's a certain system (who shall remain nameless) that introduced the "B" word in conjunction with the "C" word (carve) to denote a skidded turn that was not caused by the "R" word (rotation) as a means to distinguish the difference between "their" skidded turn and the skidded turn that it claimed was endemic to PSIA teaching. If you want to make people barf, then cause some skidding by pushing your heels out. That's the bad skidding that people don't want to see. "Good" skidding is where the whole ski is skidding basically throughout the whole turn. PSIA does not use the "brushed" terminology in the manuals, but there are many instructors who do use the term regardless of the dogma they subscribe to.

Some people claim that the good skidding we do want to see happens solely by reducing the edge angle so that momentum overtakes a carving ski's ability to hold an edge. Others claim that same result can occur from "steering" (i.e. pressure applied to the sides of the boots). For the last few years here on Epic, the term brushed has been used more consistently with respect to the result than with the theory of how that result is achieved. When I see the exact same movements produced under both theories, I'm not inclined to argue either way. Thus any worry about who invented the term is similarly useless.

Rusty,

Whether our intent is to change the edge angle of the skis or change where the skis are pointed the bio-mechanics are the same, the femurs rotating in the hip socket. So, the outcome, visually, is going to be be the same. But, the two intentions can produce different sensations and outcomes in respect to turn shape and speed control so while arguing is not called for I think that understanding both and being able to perform either at will is important.

fom

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6

?

Hmmmm.... so do I, but if you put your skis on the snow and let them lie there all day they will not move. Or turn. Its YOU that turn your skis. Not the other way around even if that is a smart way of saying it. In carving its a bit different. But even there you need to tip to turn. So your turning movement would be tipping. What is it in the basic parallel turn? Mr Newton.... An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an unbalanced force. An object in motion continues in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

This law is often called: "the law of inertia".

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoldman

I try to minimize my turning the skis, its much more fun to let the skis turn me. Easier too.

fom

This reminds me of the question I ask many students.  It goes like this.  When you drive do you turn your car or does your car turn you.  Once we get through a quick discussion (usually while on the lift) they agree that they don't turn the car,  they turn the wheel and that causes actions in the mechanics of the car which causes the car to turn and as a result, causes them, as the driver of the car to turn.   It's obvious watching never evers in their first attempts at turning that they generally believe that they have to physically turn their skis yet in reality as we all know,  the process is much more subtle.   ym

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet

I am very surprised you did not mention rotating the femurs, or turning the legs, or pointing the toes, etc etc etc.

"Steering" is accomplished by applying pressure to the sides of the boots?  Well, yeah, OK.  But is that what we are supposed to say these days instead of turning the legs?

Why surprise? It's the etc. etc. etc. part that I chose not to elaborate on. These things should already be understood by TDK (as I explained earlier). Getting into these kinds of details lead to the rat hole of rewriting the manuals. There are lots of ways you can "say" how to your students. Find one that "clicks" for them. As useless as it seems, I once was told in a lesson to rotate my femurs. Within the context of the lesson, it made sense to me but it did not work for everyone in the group. As such, there is no right answer for all occasions.

Rusty, it sounded like you were being politically correct, with tongue in cheek.

I've added "apply pressure to the sides of the boots" to my ever-growing list of how to make a turn.

etc etc etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatoldman

Rusty,

Whether our intent is to change the edge angle of the skis or change where the skis are pointed the bio-mechanics are the same, the femurs rotating in the hip socket. So, the outcome, visually, is going to be be the same. But, the two intentions can produce different sensations and outcomes in respect to turn shape and speed control so while arguing is not called for I think that understanding both and being able to perform either at will is important.

fom

By my definition, if the biomechanics are the same, then the results should be the same. One of the qualities of great instructors is an innate ability to diagnose a students understanding of concepts and tailor a specific intention/mental focus that produces a desired outcome in the student's skiing. So I don't care what the mental trigger is if I can get the desired results for myself or my students. Sometimes the triggers make sense. Sometimes the triggers have to work through a "back door" (e.g. thinking tipping to get femur rotation or thinking pull back to prevent pivoting). I do agree that being able to cause skidding on purpose via edge control, pivot control or some combination is an essential skill for advanced level skiing.

I do not like what I watched of the video, Too inaccurate on so many levels and the production is at best really, really bad home video. It's obviously a bad first attempt and maybe after some further study on all levels the next attempt will be an improvement. I know that is pretty harsh but c'mon it's an amateur production that starts with a headless subject and his advice starts with holding a ski level as the primary means of eliminating tip and tail crossing? Really?
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogaman

This reminds me of the question I ask many students.  It goes like this.  When you drive do you turn your car or does your car turn you.  Once we get through a quick discussion (usually while on the lift) they agree that they don't turn the car,  they turn the wheel and that causes actions in the mechanics of the car which causes the car to turn and as a result, causes them, as the driver of the car to turn.   It's obvious watching never evers in their first attempts at turning that they generally believe that they have to physically turn their skis yet in reality as we all know,  the process is much more subtle.   ym

You drive the car. The car takes you places. You turn the steering wheel and the car turns. The car turn and you with it. Just like in skiing. You are making all the movements and calling the shots and the skis reacts by doing things like going straight or turning. Accelerating or braking. I frequently use the expression that "let the skis turn you and not you turning the skis". But that is only half the truth. Because we want the students to stop muscling the skis around with great leg turning action instead of letting the skis tip on edge and do the turning "all by them selves". I also use this cue when I teach people to wedge. I want them to stop all other movements and focus on weight transfer only. Just like I want my students to concentrate on tipping only when learning carving. Wedging and carving are similar in this perspective. The basic Parallel Turn however is different. Pure weight transfer from downhill ski to uphill ski will not start your turn. Neither will tipping your skis from their uphill edges to their downhill edges. You need something more.

However, modern ski instruction has blurred the whole concept of the basic Parallel Turn. Just watched a bunch of videos on the subject and in no video do they mentioned anything about up-unweighting. The reason is that not even instructors understand the basic fundamental mechanism of how a basic Parallel Turn is performed. All demos on the subject by ski instructors on the net look horrible. Nothing I would like to strive for in my own skiing if I was a student. They all basically start with the wedge. Then they try to morph the wedge into a Parallel Turn. In the end its at its best linked Parallel Turns. Notice, "linked". When you link you get momentum. So what they are doing is feeding on momentum from previous turn and up-unweighting and pivoting (very little at its best). Not tipping, weight shifting or releasing to initiate the basic Parallel Turn. Then they spend the rest of their lives trying to work the micro wedge out of their skiing. And the Direct To Parallel crowd uses this kind of misinformation to boost their own system.

I was skiing with 50s gear last winter at a masquerade. Making shaky Parallel Turns and trying to stay upright. Along comes this 55 y old ski instructor and laughs and shouts I'm doing it all wrong. "Your up-and-down movement needs to bee much much bigger and you need to counter more more more. That's how we did it in back then!!!". What she did not understand was that none of those exaggerated movements were needed to turn those 220s. Not then, not now... but she didn't know. Still she thought she did. And sadly enough still does.

So mr Hall or whatever his name is, did something very few have done. He explained in very few steps how to make a basic Parallel Turn. Be it the old school way but still. If you want to ski like Berger, this is a good starting point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet

Rusty, it sounded like you were being politically correct, with tongue in cheek.

I've added "apply pressure to the sides of the boots" to my ever-growing list of how to make a turn.

etc etc etc

When you carve you should apply pressure to the outside LTE of the outside boot and inside BTE of the inside boot. But this is kind of WC level. I don't see how this kind of advice would work at beginner level learning to ski parallel. And I don't understand how you can apply pressure to the inside of a boot when you have nothing to lever against like you have when you carve and your edges are hooked up. Just think about the difference in edge angles.

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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › ski lesson-parallel ski in one day (the title of the posted YouTube video)