or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Find a recent quote from a Instructor here
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Find a recent quote from a Instructor here

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Within the last few days I read a post where the instructor explained how he taught his racing students not to smear at a stop but to get low and drive the stop or something like that. I am going to learn gates again after a 20 year layoff and I want to understand what he was saying. Seems like something I could practice. I cannot find the post.
post #2 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post

What instructor said, "In racing I teach students when stopping not to smear but to get down and drive"?

From levy1 from post #194 here:

http://www.epicski.com/t/147200/help-with-counter/180
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by E350 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post

What instructor said, "In racing I teach students when stopping not to smear but to get down and drive"?

From levy1 from post #194 here:

http://www.epicski.com/t/147200/help-with-counter/180

Its not 180, cant find it!
post #4 of 17
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your help but it was in the last 4-5 days.
post #6 of 17
Was it racing forum? Or Instruction & Coaching forum?
post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
Instructions
post #8 of 17

OK then may want to look through the last few pages of this thread:

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/146945/carving-deep-and-low/330

post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 

No luck so far

post #10 of 17
Pretty sure @razie said that. Don't remember the thread. Carving deep and low I think...

zenny
post #11 of 17
post #12 of 17
This sounds close: http://www.epicski.com/t/147200/help-with-counter/150#post_2014159

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post

 

Why not focus on the pivoting part at low speeds and flat skis? You know me: my idea of getting someone to get good at piste skiing is to do what Warren W did since 1970:

 

In coaching racers, I emphasize that when free-skiing they must never reduce speed by a skidding action of their skis. Every time they do this they reinforce muscular habits related to skidding turns.

 

In other words: don't "twist and smear", but "drop and grind" ! 

 

cheers

 

If that's it, the quote above was from Warren Witherell, How the Racers Ski, 1972.

 

cheers

post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post

Why not focus on the pivoting part at low speeds and flat skis? You know me: my idea of getting someone to get good at piste skiing is to do what Warren W did since 1970:
Quote:
In coaching racers, I emphasize that when free-skiing they must never reduce speed by a skidding action of their skis. Every time they do this they reinforce muscular habits related to skidding turns.

cheers

If that's it, the quote above was from Warren Witherell, How the Racers Ski, 1972.

cheers

That's it! Now at 68 I am not very flexible so I don't have much drop and as far as grind that's a thing of the past for me so how do I do it?
post #14 of 17

It depends on how much carving skill you already have. At it's simplest, Warren is telling you to control speed via turn shape instead of skidding. The simplest general advice is to try to finish your turns going back up the hill enough to control your speed as desired. You don't need any great amount of flexibility to do this on beginner and low intermediate slopes. You do need the physical control to edge your skis enough to carve and the mental muscle memory control to not pivot the skis to cause them to skid to get speed control. Railroad tracks is the standard drill. Start with shallow turns on easy flat terrain and work your way up to steeper terrain, faster speeds and wider turns. For people that have trouble with railroad tracks, I usually revert back to carved traverses to uphill stops and then work from there. Some people have trouble with the faster speed of carving skis, get into the back seat and then can't help but pivot their skis. There are lots of reasons why people can have trouble with this. Some people get it quickly, some don't. This is easier to learn on skis with shorter turning radii. Your trench depth may vary. 

post #15 of 17

Thumbs Up

 

Yup. It was not about stopping, but slowing down, i.e. speed control. Most skiers, when finding themselves going too fast, will default to pivot/smear/skidding/hockey stops, as a natural "survival instinct". The idea is to teach racers to NOT slow down by skidding, but by carving and to re-inforce movements related to carving rather than pivoting - because in a race, when push comes to shove, the brain will choose what it is most comfortable with, so it's good for it to be comfortable with carving even in extreme situations.

 

----

 

"Don't twist and smear vs drop and grind"

 

That's henceforth copyright by moi :D (<< smug face).

 

The idea of drop and grind is to develop inclination quickly (DROP) and put the skis at a big edge angle to be able to bend them in a tight turn and then GRIND i.e. bend them into a tight arc.

 

That's a blunt statement though - don't take DROP to mean hip dump and don't take GRIND to mean literally grinding the skis through the entire turn. It is the holy grail of ski racing :eek

 

Here's the visual to go with that...

 

 

 

p.s. ...before we start with some carving or no carving crusades, it is a very large subject. Starting with equipment, snow conditions, slope, skill, technique etc.

 

 


Edited by razie - 9/9/16 at 6:53pm
post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post
 

It depends on how much carving skill you already have. At it's simplest, Warren is telling you to control speed via turn shape instead of skidding. The simplest general advice is to try to finish your turns going back up the hill enough to control your speed as desired. You don't need any great amount of flexibility to do this on beginner and low intermediate slopes. You do need the physical control to edge your skis enough to carve and the mental muscle memory control to not pivot the skis to cause them to skid to get speed control. Railroad tracks is the standard drill. Start with shallow turns on easy flat terrain and work your way up to steeper terrain, faster speeds and wider turns. For people that have trouble with railroad tracks, I usually revert back to carved traverses to uphill stops and then work from there. Some people have trouble with the faster speed of carving skis, get into the back seat and then can't help but pivot their skis. There are lots of reasons why people can have trouble with this. Some people get it quickly, some don't. This is easier to learn on skis with shorter turning radii. Your trench depth may vary. 

You are hitting the nail right on the head Rusty. 

 

IMO and assuming a medium radius turn .....

 

A main reason that people can't finish their turns is that (as they approach perpendicular to the fall line) they fail to build (for a host of reasons) the higher edge angles needed to continue the circular travel and fall victim to the constant pull of gravity which is relentlessly trying to return the skier to a linear path. 

 

I strongly believe that the solution lies with our inside half and an active shortening of the inside leg.  Look at any video of experts doing medium radius turns and watch how the inside leg shortens and the foot stays underneath.

 

Now does this take flexibility?  Yes but more important is the understanding that the inside plays a crucial role in continuing a turn, especially as the fall line approaches.

post #17 of 17
Think lift the inside ski off the snow, but actually leave it on the snow.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Find a recent quote from a Instructor here