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I want your genuine opinions and feedback, EpicSki community - Page 4

post #91 of 111

Imagine the incredible loss if Facebook pulled the plug on your account and you lost contact with all of the people you only could reach through them?

 

 

Of course you could always join a smaller social media site run by one or two people - just to be safe.

 

Just doesn't seem to be much a point there bob.  There may be reasons to leave Epic, but that just ain't one of them.

post #92 of 111
There is no point. There just seems to be an intrinsic we think this forum is so valuable groupthink going on that the owner probably doesn't share.

And if that's the case what incentive do they have to preserve it for ever? Not like Facebook or Twitter at all where users are their product.
post #93 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbob View Post

what incentive do they have to preserve it for ever?

They don't particularly want to piss off thousands of skiers who funnel millions of dollars into their bank accounts.  However, forever is a long time...

post #94 of 111
They could probably monetize the spin-off by selling it back to us and requiring we get a new name. We'd be running a Kickstarter campaign. Go back to Barking Bears, take the digital content.
post #95 of 111
Where do these 1000s of active users who ski at VR come from that could hold them hostage? Not good PR granted but bears are hardly going to throw their Epicpasses in the bin come Vday.
post #96 of 111
Thread Starter 
I'm mobile so sorry for the brevity. A forum will only exist as long as it's profitable. If you think any other site, even if the owners love it, are going to keep it online indefinitely if it's losing money month after month you're mistaken. They may try to make it profitable, but unless you're independently wealthy and supporting a hobby no one is going to keep running a money pit indefinitely.

Also the content is granted use to EpicSki/vail, but you also retain the rights to all your content. Even for example the stuff I write as part of being on the staff I retain some rights to.

Finally the profitability of a forum in the long term is from its lurkers not posters. It's true that posters attract the lurkers, but from a business standpoint (and thus a whether a site will continue to exist) good content is only a part of the picture. That's my job as Site Manager, making sure all the things are in order to keep EpicSki running.

EpicSki has been a business venture nearly since the beginning (we're just much more transparent about that now). Pugski,Theskidiva, TGR, etc are also all business ventures. No amount of love pays the hosting bills. As long as there is value in EpicSki or any other site it will continue to exist.
post #97 of 111

This is getting to be a long read - I had to go back to page one to see what the original thought was.

 

Great points thrown out here.  I do think there is less industry insider participation going on, but maybe I'm just not spending enough time in the boot thread (where for some reason only insiders can reply to posts).  Whether that's a really bad thing, I'm not sure, because there are so many skiers on Epicski that know the gear, how to tune, best lift deals, etc.  Got a great deal on some Masters cheaters in the Gear section.

 

I like the current site, and I think the moderators are doing a good job.  I recognize most of the pugski participants as ex-Epic members, but it sure seems the newbies gravitate to Epic.

 

I enjoy the gatherings, and it's cool to meet the posters.

 

 

Oh, and Vail sucks.  Just checking.....:D

post #98 of 111

Ban him!!!

 

Thanks @SpikeDog.  Just FYI, the Ask the Boot Guys forum allows anyone to start a thread, but only certain registered boot fitters to answer. It's highly specialized.  If you want to ask a question (or whatever) that anyone can chime in on, you can create a thread about boots in the regular Ski Gear forum.

post #99 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeDog View Post
 

I like the current site, and I think the moderators are doing a good job.  I recognize most of the pugski participants as ex-Epic members, but it sure seems the newbies gravitate to Epic.

 

I enjoy the gatherings, and it's cool to meet the posters.

 

 

To be honest from the limited time I have browsed over the site seems to be almost exclusively ex-Epic members with many of the same posting habits they have always had... I am actually surprised by a few of the posters I've seen over there as I would have thought they would be some what adversarial to the owners. 

post #100 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post
 

Ban him!!!

 

Thanks @SpikeDog.  Just FYI, the Ask the Boot Guys forum allows anyone to start a thread, but only certain registered boot fitters to answer. It's highly specialized.  If you want to ask a question (or whatever) that anyone can chime in on, you can create a thread about boots in the regular Ski Gear forum.

 

There are a lot of people who are certified in different aspects of the ski business here on Epic, why is it just the boot guys have a protected forum?

 

Just asking, no agenda.

post #101 of 111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post
 

Ban him!!!

 

Thanks @SpikeDog.  Just FYI, the Ask the Boot Guys forum allows anyone to start a thread, but only certain registered boot fitters to answer. It's highly specialized.  If you want to ask a question (or whatever) that anyone can chime in on, you can create a thread about boots in the regular Ski Gear forum.

 

There are a lot of people who are certified in different aspects of the ski business here on Epic, why is it just the boot guys have a protected forum?

 

Just asking, no agenda.

There is also an Ask a Ski Pro forum where only a select group of certified instructors are given permissions to participate. About 8 years ago the management group at the time felt that the reason for the exodus of professional postesr was that they felt disrespected by having to compete on level ground with whomever bothered to sign up for an account. The Ask a Ski Pro and Ask a Boot Fitter forums were the result of that effort to retain industry professionals. Both forums are still around, but as has been acknowledged in private nearly since their inception the utter lack of participation undermined the idea that competing with the 'rabble' had little to do with the limited posting by industry professionals. As EpicSki grew there was less of a collegial feel and more public exposure which lead to the industry pros to not feel comfortable posting. It is an undeniable fact learned from experience that the bigger the forum, the more uncomfortable knowledgeable posters are in contributing. The irony being that the more industry pros post, the more popular the forum; it's an inevitable cycle. 

post #102 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

The irony being that the more industry pros post, the more popular the forum; it's an inevitable cycle. 

Does it really have to be an inevitable cycle? There has to be some format that would allow a recognized expert to post on the forum and be able to protect that content whilst allowing interaction with the forum members? Perhaps article based content, or even the question and answer format you are using with the map guy. Maybe even a more heavily moderated area that controls unwanted input. Everything doesn't have to be a free for all.
post #103 of 111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

The irony being that the more industry pros post, the more popular the forum; it's an inevitable cycle. 

Does it really have to be an inevitable cycle? There has to be some format that would allow a recognized expert to post on the forum and be able to protect that content whilst allowing interaction with the forum members? Perhaps article based content, or even the question and answer format you are using with the map guy. Maybe even a more heavily moderated area that controls unwanted input. Everything doesn't have to be a free for all.

 

Well we have that format, but eventually what happens is the professionals (ironically) seem to get bored of not debating or feel that what is to be said has already been said. Quite honestly there is very little in terms of high-level discourse in regards to technique and boot fitting that hasn't already been said at some point on the forum or in the articles. What keeps a forum going is people just rehashing the debate and continuing to discuss it over and over with new participants. It's why forums have a high turnover from year to year. Eventually most of the users get tired of the same questions and debates and drift away. New users who were not involved in the past debates come and the debates continue. A few members stick around a long time because of their love of the community, the content, etc. but they tend to be the exception. 

post #104 of 111
Joining this site has been one of the best moves I ever made in my 40 year career of skiing. There is no place else to get information from top racing coaches, expert instructors, expert boot fitters and alignment techs. I have been here about 9 years and have been through the bashing, argumentative posters and it seemed to turn to a higher level last year at least to me. I saw very knowledgeable posters some of the best in the business constantly being harassed and challenged on the forums to the point of disrespect. I cringed at some of the posts that were only for attacking posters, and reported to a moderator three times on just one post and nothing was done except to drive away very good informative posters. This is not about the moderators but it was the fault of the moderator on several threads where the thrashing was horrible. This drove away some of the best people on this forum. At least they are lurking and making an occasional post. The other website does not have the traffic, is at a very high level and most of them know each other. There is a lot more content on this forum and I hope it continues to grow and bring back other members. But, come on, when you have a poster who is trying to start trouble with every reply of a thread, being disrespectful to the point he is pissing all of us off someone needs to step in. We need this forum and the great knowledgeable skiers who are part of it. Just the fact that you asked for the feedback tells me changes for the good are about. That is great and I thank you for it and also for your hard work.
Fred
post #105 of 111

levy, I agree so much with what you wrote.  I came here 12 years ago and have had the same experience.

 

I also agree that more intervention is needed.  In a recent PM with a less-involved member it was explained to me how they experienced a similar situation, reported it, and were told by the moderator that they were trying to work with the guy.  Nothing ever happened.

 

 

I love the epic interface, the software, the depth of members - to me it's a great set-up.

 

I certainly hope to see people like Bob Barnes back here, but it's all part of the ebb and flow of epic ski.  

post #106 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

The irony being that the more industry pros post, the more popular the forum; it's an inevitable cycle. 

Does it really have to be an inevitable cycle? There has to be some format that would allow a recognized expert to post on the forum and be able to protect that content whilst allowing interaction with the forum members? Perhaps article based content, or even the question and answer format you are using with the map guy. Maybe even a more heavily moderated area that controls unwanted input. Everything doesn't have to be a free for all.


If there were more volunteers to take care of areas that fit the description of "heavily moderated area," your idea might be more practical.  That's based on my experience with the Beginner Zone in the last few years.  If that were a more active forum, I doubt I would last more than a season as a Moderator.

post #107 of 111
Well, how does someone get recognized as qualifying for those restricted forums? Maybe that's part of the issue. At least on mobile, any forum notes are not very noticeable. So, newbies are mystified that no one is responding. Then I'm sure there are plenty of qualified instructors and bootfitters that are just classified as members and can't figure out why they can't respond, but not interested enough to contact someone. They might think the thread was locked or there's some other issue, but they move on to something else rather than deal with it. So, there really needs to be more prominent notice that those are special forums, even if you enter the thread from New Posts. Which gets me to another thing. Mobile needs the default on the Forum Note to be that it's open, because it's really not visible.
post #108 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 
 Maybe even a more heavily moderated area that controls unwanted input. Everything doesn't have to be a free for all.


If there were more volunteers to take care of areas that fit the description of "heavily moderated area," your idea might be more practical.  That's based on my experience with the Beginner Zone in the last few years.  If that were a more active forum, I doubt I would last more than a season as a Moderator.

 

 

As long as reported posts are acted on there doesn't need to be more moderator following of threads.  In my experience reported posts don't necessarily get things done, unless the post is a  flagrant violation of the rules.

 

On one hand I commend the mods for not having a heavy hand, but I think the permissiveness went too far. 

 

Again the forum is not anywhere near as bad as it used to be, so I could see the moderation team thinking less is more right now - but in my (and others) opinion, the effort to maintain an environment that doesn't alienate people needs to be stepped up a little.

post #109 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post


If there were more volunteers to take care of areas that fit the description of "heavily moderated area," your idea might be more practical.  That's based on my experience with the Beginner Zone in the last few years.  If that were a more active forum, I doubt I would last more than a season as a Moderator.

I think you have done an excellent job of moderating the Beginner Zone and have established a different tone there than the rest of the forum. I like that you make people aware that they are posting in an area that is moderated to a different standard, and they respect that. Personally, I would like to see that same level of moderation in the rest of the forum, instead of th variability that exists now. I do appreciate that moderation takes time and effort, but once the culture starts to change posters tend to fall into line and less interference is required. At some point members also start to feel entitled to moderate themselves with peer pressure when a higher standard is etablished. As a final point, I often feel the antagonism that is allowed in P&HT often spills over to the skiing threads and drags them down to a similar level. Perhaps we would be better off with a common level of moderation throughout?
post #110 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post

 


If there were more volunteers to take care of areas that fit the description of "heavily moderated area," your idea might be more practical.  That's based on my experience with the Beginner Zone in the last few years.  If that were a more active forum, I doubt I would last more than a season as a Moderator.


As long as reported posts are acted on there doesn't need to be more moderator following of threads.  In my experience reported posts don't necessarily get things done, unless the post is a  flagrant violation of the rules.

On one hand I commend the mods for not having a heavy hand, but I think the permissiveness went too far. 

Again the forum is not anywhere near as bad as it used to be, so I could see the moderation team thinking less is more right now - but in my (and others) opinion, the effort to maintain an environment that doesn't alienate people needs to be stepped up a little.
Yes
post #111 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post
 

Ban him!!!

 

Thanks @SpikeDog.  Just FYI, the Ask the Boot Guys forum allows anyone to start a thread, but only certain registered boot fitters to answer. It's highly specialized.  If you want to ask a question (or whatever) that anyone can chime in on, you can create a thread about boots in the regular Ski Gear forum.

 

There are a lot of people who are certified in different aspects of the ski business here on Epic, why is it just the boot guys have a protected forum?

 

Just asking, no agenda.


My observation is that the boot fitters who stay involved with Ask The Boot Guys are pretty good about checking in pretty regularly, even during their busy ski season.  There is a volunteer who is the "team leader" for the group.  The number of people involved is relatively small but covers U.S., Canada, and Europe.

 

Just as buying boots is quite a different activity than buying skis or taking lessons or coaching racers, I think the model of having a special sub-forum that works for boot fitters is not a natural fit for other professionals in the ski industry.  YMMV.

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