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Feathering at different points in the turn - Page 4

post #91 of 98

An added component seen in Tdk's post 90 is that here the skier dumps speed with essentially a hockey stop move before re-aligning the skis closer to the direction of travel to allow the skis to come into a carve.  Just like car racing, braking is important.

post #92 of 98

I think towards the end of a turn, the skis' effective angle increases from the fall line just because of the slope and also we are more countered and the skis have turned more against the direction of travel - so skis have a natural tendency to engage better in the low C, the bottom of the turn.

 

I think intentionally pivoting the top is of course a possible strategy, but not a good one, especially on ice... once overwhelmed with pressure and/or angular momentum, it's hard for the edges to regain grip... the previous observation notwithstanding. 

 

On ice, looking for grip is important. Not getting it is a different issue. After getting grip on ice on a black run: you better be in top shape. Ice returns a lot of force to your body: that's the main problem I find with ice: not getting the grip, but putting up with it.

 

Feathering a turn is a good concept, of course. The way it is done matters. Like I said, pivoting the top on purpose is not the best idea, because you overwhelm the skis and create angular momentum. Just tipping the skis at less of an angle, unweighting, fore/aft and stuff like that makes for a much better "feathering" strategy. That could be the topic of your presentation, Meta.

 

Feathering is not an on/off switch. I would not look at it like that: we pivot the top and carve the bottom. Feathering is shy of carving and also is the "grip quality". To deflect laterally, I don't need a solid carve/platform, but some platform and taking my time. That's the notion of impulse: big force over a small duration is the same as a smaller force over a longer duration.

 

cheers

post #93 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

An added component seen in Tdk's post 90 is that here the skier dumps speed with essentially a hockey stop move before re-aligning the skis closer to the direction of travel to allow the skis to come into a carve.  Just like car racing, braking is important.

 

Re-aligning is a good word. Thanks. And can you see how abrupt the realigning is? Its because the racer does not want to keep skidding after he hit the brakes. He needs to quickly lock the skis onto their edges in the direction of his forward momentum.

post #94 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post
 

I think towards the end of a turn, the skis' effective angle increases from the fall line just because of the slope and also we are more countered and the skis have turned more against the direction of travel - so skis have a natural tendency to engage better in the low C, the bottom of the turn.

 

I think intentionally pivoting the top is of course a possible strategy, but not a good one, especially on ice... once overwhelmed with pressure and/or angular momentum, it's hard for the edges to regain grip... the previous observation notwithstanding. 

 

On ice, looking for grip is important. Not getting it is a different issue. After getting grip on ice on a black run: you better be in top shape. Ice returns a lot of force to your body: that's the main problem I find with ice: not getting the grip, but putting up with it.

 

Feathering a turn is a good concept, of course. The way it is done matters. Like I said, pivoting the top on purpose is not the best idea, because you overwhelm the skis and create angular momentum. Just tipping the skis at less of an angle, unweighting, fore/aft and stuff like that makes for a much better "feathering" strategy. That could be the topic of your presentation, Meta.

 

Feathering is not an on/off switch. I would not look at it like that: we pivot the top and carve the bottom. Feathering is shy of carving and also is the "grip quality". To deflect laterally, I don't need a solid carve/platform, but some platform and taking my time. That's the notion of impulse: big force over a small duration is the same as a smaller force over a longer duration.

 

cheers

 

Ice and world cup prepared racing slopes are hard to ski on because the surface is very very slippery. Its almost impossible to make open parallel steered turns in such conditions. And carving is also difficult because of the low friction and the resulting acceleration. So we need to separate these conditions from each other. There is no guiding, feathering or brushing. Instead there is skidding, slamming, hitting, shaking and stone hard surface to brake every bone in your body. Now when I think of it there might be a smooth transition from brushing to carving on a soft regular pist at slow to modest speeds.

post #95 of 98
Here is a good video on two approaches to control speed on steeps...

1) skiing uphill and end of turn
2) feathering

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qyfO8vs41GI
post #96 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

Ice and world cup prepared racing slopes are hard to ski on because the surface is very very slippery. Its almost impossible to make open parallel steered turns in such conditions. And carving is also difficult because of the low friction and the resulting acceleration. So we need to separate these conditions from each other. There is no guiding, feathering or brushing. Instead there is skidding, slamming, hitting, shaking and stone hard surface to brake every bone in your body. Now when I think of it there might be a smooth transition from brushing to carving on a soft regular pist at slow to modest speeds.

Here is an example of ski attack angle and CoM attack angle in such conditions. 10-2.

post #97 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

Ice and world cup prepared racing slopes are hard to ski on because the surface is very very slippery. Its almost impossible to make open parallel steered turns in such conditions. And carving is also difficult because of the low friction and the resulting acceleration. So we need to separate these conditions from each other. There is no guiding, feathering or brushing. Instead there is skidding, slamming, hitting, shaking and stone hard surface to brake every bone in your body. Now when I think of it there might be a smooth transition from brushing to carving on a soft regular pist at slow to modest speeds.

Here is an example of ski attack angle and CoM attack angle in such conditions. 10-2.


The attack angle is basically the degree of skidding of the outside ski. In SL at this level, the bottom of the turn is at the gate.

I need to get that book - I have to see how they measure that vis-a-vis ski bending varying as well throughout the turn...
post #98 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post

The attack angle is basically the degree of skidding of the outside ski. In SL at this level, the bottom of the turn is at the gate.

I need to get that book - I have to see how they measure that vis-a-vis ski bending varying as well throughout the turn...

It is the average, but since the fore part is bent more you get an angle larger than a few degrees when it is bent, even if it is "clean"
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