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Choosing between Marker Griffons or Rossi Freeski 120XL's

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

Looking for some feedback on choosing between these 2 bindings I can get cheapish.

 

These will go on Line Supernatural 92's.

 

Me: advanced/expert skier (ski all over the mountain) out West, more technical than power. 

Only reference I have are alll kinds of Tyrolia/Head bindings, which I really like (but are not on my list this time).

 

Both have same/sufficient DIN range for my needs (am at about DIN 7-8), and first time I would not buy Tyrolia's....

 

My wife has the Griffon's and I find they look kinda plastic-like, while de Rossi's seem sturdier.

 

Rossi's weigh about 2,5kg for the pair, don`t know the Griffon's weight.

 

I tend not to change my gear every season and hang on to my skis, so durability is important for me.

 

Thanks !

post #2 of 20
I hate the Griffons because of all that plastic. Never again.
post #3 of 20

Why are the tyrolias off the list? i'm curious because i'm thinking of getting a set of attack 13's to put on some new skis. i have griffons on another pair, and while they are all plastic, they have been fine so far.

post #4 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by graham418 View Post

Why are the tyrolias off the list?
Just because I can get good deals on the Rossis (110 $cad) or Grifons (130$cad)
post #5 of 20

I got rid of my Griffons due to difficulty getting back on in deep powder or steep terrain as they require a hard stomp. I am not the only person who has had this problem. Otherwise a good sturdy binding for use on groomers.

post #6 of 20
I'm also done with Griffons, which I've had on several pairs of skis. Often, getting into them in powder, I need to reach down and "encourage" the tail piece lever upward by hand. I put Aattack 13s on the Volkl 100Eights I got last spring and I like stepping in to them much more. I'll be specifying them going forward.

Edit: I do have Rossis on a pair of JJs, and they seem fine. Given the choice in the OP, I'd pick the Rossis.
post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 

Thanks all for the feedback, seems to confirm what I was kinda thinking.

 

(now just counting down until we get some snow....)

post #8 of 20

Over and over, folks on Epic and Pugski sites seem to prefer the Attack 13s, for how easily they go back on after falls and for the convenience of adjustment with levers instead of a screwdriver.  But Rossis go back on well, too.  

 

The Rossi heel piece is slightly more awkward getting off and on to me, but I've never run into anyone else who feels that way.  

 

The main advantage, to me, of the Griffons is when they are demo Griffons - moveable on demo rails, or with Schizo cables.  They operate on a metal screw system that gives very precise differences in settings, which comes in handy mostly if you want to experiment with mount position fore-aft, in 1/4 and 1/2 cm precise increments.   Other bindings, with their levers for adjustment, have less precise and larger increments only (often with varying increments to boot).  

post #9 of 20

I have Griffons, Rossi 120s and the Look/Rossi Turntable FKS style all on all mountain skis. I am an aggressive skier and usually run my bindings around DIN 9. Most of my Masters racing skis are mounted with either Marker or Tyrolia.

The FKS type are cool looking expensive heavy and a royal pain to put on, release is reliable.

Rossi 120 has no downside, easy to put / on take off, release is reliable.

Griffon is light, and easy to put on / take off, unfortunately they have never released despite some heavy falls, I have reduced the setting to DIN 8 still no release. Even though I am a Marker fan I would go with the Rossi 120s..

post #10 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speeder View Post
 

I have Griffons, Rossi 120s and the Look/Rossi Turntable FKS style all on all mountain skis. I am an aggressive skier and usually run my bindings around DIN 9. Most of my Masters racing skis are mounted with either Marker or Tyrolia.

The FKS type are cool looking expensive heavy and a royal pain to put on, release is reliable.

Rossi 120 has no downside, easy to put / on take off, release is reliable.

Griffon is light, and easy to put on / take off, unfortunately they have never released despite some heavy falls, I have reduced the setting to DIN 8 still no release. Even though I am a Marker fan I would go with the Rossi 120s..

 

With Marker Griffon/Schizo release, it happens that for me 7-8 DIN works, over a dozen binding sets currently.  This has given me timely releases very accurately, repeatedly.  Never a failure to release when I needed it.  No unneeded releases either.  

 

 If I set to 6 or 6.5 DIN, on the other hand, the Griffons will release prematurely, regularly. I seem to torque right out of them, often without a fall.   I can count on that too.

 

The same goes, mostly, for demo days skiing,  when the demo bindings are Griffons or other brands also, pretty much.     

post #11 of 20

According to evo.com's chart (http://www.evo.com/ski-binding-weight-chart-for-alpine-backcountry-bindings.aspx#2014), the 2013 Griffons weigh 2020 g/pair and the 2015 FKS120's are 2176 g/pair.  According to Tyrolia's mfr. data, the AAAttack13's are 1940 g/pair (all weights include the brakes).

 

If you're going to get either the Griffons or the AAAttack13's, I'd recommend the getting the demo versions if you can.  According to PhilPug, these are the only two bindings where the demos give you performance comparable to the non-demo models (I have the Griffon demos and find they're rock solid, unlike any other demo binding I've used), and being able to dial in your fore-aft position is a great feature -- it removes the torment of trying to guess where to mount the bindings ;).  In addition, unlike other demo bindings, the demo versions of these aren't much heavier than their retail counterparts.

 

I haven't experienced the flimsy-ness issues others have with the Griffons -- I find they're rock solid and like that the heel has wide "flying buttresses" that secure it to the track and minimize lateral deflection when I'm up on edge (OTOH I only weigh 150#).   My issue with them is that I've never cared for how Markers release, and these are no different.  I've not had any pre-releases, but I've found that releases with Markers stress my knees more than other bindings do (using the same settings -- 7 toe, 8 heel).

post #12 of 20
I would stop taking off your skis in powder. Problem solved. smile.gif

/kidding

I prefer looks but have no issues with the royal family bindings since their launch. Not sure that P12 are worth the extra $50 you seem to need to spend.
post #13 of 20

Look pivot, Sth, or Attacks are my top 3 alpine bindings. I literally loathe Markers, especially the griffons. They're clunky, cheap, impossible to put on in powder and fill with ice. For the money it's Attack's for me every time. Low profile, smooth as silk, and they just never let me down.

post #14 of 20

:words:   keep hearing about issues with Griffons but i trust them completely - only release when you need them to if the DIN's set properly. 

no binding is easy to click back into when you bail in a foot of fluff - i have never found my griffons any more difficult to click into than my Aatack 13's in this situation.( the 2 bindings i use most days) . shoot, i had a terrible time getting into my AAtacks one day for first chair @ Alta with sticky snow from the parking lot - i really looked silly that day!! 

 

I had those Rossi's on some Faction powder boards and they functioned great

 

dont think u can go wrong with any of these 3 choices

 

Demo bindings i personally cannot stand , u can feel the slight wiggle/hesitation on each turn when your on steeps and that's no good!

post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackke17 View Post
 

:words:   keep hearing about issues with Griffons but i trust them completely - only release when you need them to if the DIN's set properly. 

no binding is easy to click back into when you bail in a foot of fluff - i have never found my griffons any more difficult to click into than my Aatack 13's in this situation.( the 2 bindings i use most days) . shoot, i had a terrible time getting into my AAtacks one day for first chair @ Alta with sticky snow from the parking lot - i really looked silly that day!! 

 

I had those Rossi's on some Faction powder boards and they functioned great

 

dont think u can go wrong with any of these 3 choices

 

Demo bindings i personally cannot stand , u can feel the slight wiggle/hesitation on each turn when your on steeps and that's no good!

 

I agree, mostly.  I've had good luck with Marker Griffons, and prefer them for the fore-aft adjustment of the Schizos especially (but demos too).   If I wasn't into such adjustments, I'd probably like the Attack 13s just as much.  

 

Many of my favorite ski friends feel that slight wiggle/hesitation of a demo binding, and would never use it for that reason.

 

It's not that I don't notice fine-tuning differences.   With fore-aft mount, a 1/4 cm. change forward or back, for me, can change the ski appreciably.  And a 1/2 cm change can make it feel like a very different set of skis, at times.  

 

But I know that wiggle in the demo is there, and a decisive difference for many.

post #16 of 20

One thing I have noticed about the Griffons.  At times a shop mount can leave the bindings hard to step into: you have to wedge the boot in, then slam it down hard, not always successfully.  A malfunction.  This is with the forward pressure adjusted seemingly correctly.  On the rare occasions when I've had a Griffon (or Marker) binding that did this, in powder it became much more difficult to get back into the bindings, with no hard "floor" underneath to let you stomp into them.  

 

This Griffon entry problem has happened to me twice over the years (out of maybe 20+ bindings, counting demo and Schizo bindings).  It's never happened with a Schizo or demo Griffon.   

 

This may be what some skiers are encountering, not sure. 

 

In time with use, this difficulty seems to dissipate, then disappear. Also, in the short term, readjusting the bindings a tiny bid  back at the heal also seems to alleviate this problem mostly.

 

I don't know enough about mounting/adjustments to have a clue why this happens with some Markers, but I've heard of it from others also.   

 

With Marker Jesters, on the other hand, It's been worse.  Because of my relative light weight, I've found the heavier spring on the Jester makes the problem with entry more likely.  Of two Jesters I've had, both were pretty hard to get into, and even a bit hard to get out of.   If I were 30 lbs heavier, I doubt there would have been a problem as much, more like the Griffons maybe.  

post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackke17 View Post

 

Demo bindings i personally cannot stand , u can feel the slight wiggle/hesitation on each turn when your on steeps and that's no good!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ski otter View Post

 

Many of my favorite ski friends feel that slight wiggle/hesitation of a demo binding, and would never use it for that reason.

 

Yes, that's typical of demo bindings.  But have you/your ski friends have noticed this with the Griffon demos, which are supposed to be one of the exceptions to this?  Further, I tested mine by putting the skis on the kitchen floor, clamping the boots into the bindings (without me in them), standing on the skis to lock them down, and then checking the binding's lateral displacement by trying to rock the tops of the boots back and forth.  I found there was actually less structural play with my Griffon demos than with my Knee Bindings and PRD 12's; my Griffon demos seemed nearly comparable to my FreeFlex 16's.

post #18 of 20

Yep. I actually picked up a pair of K2 Shredditor 102's last year with Griffon Demos on them for my nephews spring break trip out here to Utah . I took them to Alta for some test riding and noticed this issue right away - granted the setup i bought was used so not sure how much abuse those bindings took prior to me owning them.

post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemist View Post
 

 

Yes, that's typical of demo bindings.  But have you/your ski friends have noticed this with the Griffon demos, which are supposed to be one of the exceptions to this?  Further, I tested mine by putting the skis on the kitchen floor, clamping the boots into the bindings (without me in them), standing on the skis to lock them down, and then checking the binding's lateral displacement by trying to rock the tops of the boots back and forth.  I found there was actually less structural play with my Griffon demos than with my Knee Bindings and PRD 12's; my Griffon demos seemed nearly comparable to my FreeFlex 16's.

 

Yes, I have experienced this also.    Correctly or not, I have tentatively attributed this to the metal screw-in-metal-grid design of the Markers, which  gives some precision and tightness to them, I'd guess. Many demo bindings with levers for adjustment seem to wobble more, to me.   And many non-demo bindings also seem to slightly wobble almost as much, or more.  I have tried this from time to time, to see.

 

I have some much older, more used Marker Griffon demo and Schizo binding sets that don't seem to wobble any more than the newer ones, but in this I may be deluded.     

 

Based on me just hand-wobbling the skis/bindings with my empty boots in them and without also, and just wobbling away the empty binding on the rails with various demo bindings and noticing the lesser wobble (to me almost minute wobble) with the Markers, I was satisfied there was a reason I haven't yet noticed this problem while skiing.    

 

But others have, consistently, including with the Markers, and they are often very skilled, knowledgeable skier folks in the biz for life; so I figure good skiers setting an edge hard, perhaps mostly on steeps, might notice a loss.   (Or perhaps I just wobble so much naturally that - eh, one more wobble, more or less, who can tell?  Though I hope this is not the case.)

 

(Hand-wobble, hand-wobble, hand-wobble.)  :D 


Edited by ski otter - 9/1/16 at 1:42pm
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pieter View Post
 

Looking for some feedback on choosing between these 2 bindings I can get cheapish.

 

These will go on Line Supernatural 92's.

 

Me: advanced/expert skier (ski all over the mountain) out West, more technical than power. 

Only reference I have are alll kinds of Tyrolia/Head bindings, which I really like (but are not on my list this time).

 

Both have same/sufficient DIN range for my needs (am at about DIN 7-8), and first time I would not buy Tyrolia's....

 

My wife has the Griffon's and I find they look kinda plastic-like, while de Rossi's seem sturdier.

 

Rossi's weigh about 2,5kg for the pair, don`t know the Griffon's weight.

 

I tend not to change my gear every season and hang on to my skis, so durability is important for me.

 

Thanks !

I have the Jesters, Griffons, Rossi Axial 2 and 3 120s.  I also have a Rossi that goes from 10 to 20 Din that I feel is too much Din for me. I have never had a problem with any of them.  I ski on a DIN of 8.5.  I have heard of difficulty putting a Griffon on in powder and was told to put your toe in the binding and pull up on the ski or the heal piece.  An advantage to the Rossi bindings is that good deals can be found quite often.  I am an advanced/expert 5'9" 245 pound mostly cruiser but can and do ski the whole mountain.  I know I am not saying much but I hope that something I said helps you.

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