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Binding Position - Marker Griffon Demos

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 

I recently purchased a set of used demo ski's (16' Blizzard Bonafides with Marker Griffon 13 demo bindings).  I was starting to adjust the binding position/spacing to fit my boots last night and noticed something that seemed odd to me. I'm looking for a little confirmation that I'm not missing something obvious and also maybe some advice on where to start with boot/binding position. 

 

My boots have a 325mm BSL so I adjusted the front toe piece to the 325 mark (can someone please confirm that I am in fact interpreting those marks correctly - I assumed the angled mark on the demo track should line up with the angled plastic near the anti-friction device plate).

 

Ok so I adjust the rear binding position to its 325 mark as a starting point and see the boot is nowhere close to being able to click into the binding (the spacing is too close together to allow the boot to operate the heel piece).  I go ahead and keep backing the heel piece position toward the rear of the ski until I can click the boot in and start the forward pressure adjustment.  I adjust the heel position (without the boot clicked in mind you) until the forward pressure is set - indicated by the position adjustment screw being pulled flush when the boot is clicked in.

 

By the time I got finished adjusting, the heal piece seemed like it was almost maxing out the adjustment range on the rear demo track.  The heel piece is sitting in the range of the 360 mark on the demo track.

 

 

This doesn't seem quite right and I am looking for a way I can confirm that the bindings were properly mounted (position wise).  Mostly because I'd like to know whether I can trust the markings on the demo tracks as a standard starting point for adjustment (if I lend out the skis to a friend).  I noted the placement of the rear demo track seems like it may be farther forward when I compared it to pictures of other Bonafides with Demo Griffons.  The forward demo track may also be mounted too far rearward.

 

My skis:  Note the front demo track barely covers up a white line of text on the ski and the points of the rear track sit at the -2.5 hash mark on the ski.

 

 

Example of pictures found online of the same gear and same model year (saw this spacing on numerous sets of skis): Note the front track is about 5 to 10mm from the text and the rear track is around the -3 mark instead of the -2.5 mark.

 

 

So after all of this I click my boot in and note that the centerline mark on my boot sits about a 1 cm towards the rear when compared with the center "0" mark on the ski.  Should this be expected?  I had expected that if I adjust the demo track to my BSL (325mm), that would place the center of my boot in line with the suggested mounting mark on the ski (the"0" hash).  The fact that my boot center is shifted rearward by about a 1 cm and that the front demo track looks like it could potentially be mounted 1 cm rearward seems like too much of a coincidence to me.

 

So hear are my questions:

 

1. How can I confirm the the demo tracks are installed in the correct or incorrect location? ("correct" being defined as intended by Marker so the BSL markings can be used)

 

2. Should I plan on adjusting the binding position using the boot center mark instead?  Basically just don't pay any attention to the markings on the demo track and only use the boot mark compared to the ski marks.

 

3.  What is a good starting point for boot position?  Line the boot center mark up with the mark on the ski?  I've never tinkered with adjusting fore/aft boot position before but probably will with this pair since it is so easy.  I ride mostly in the Rockies (have to fly there and get only a few days each season now).  I stick to resorts only, but am usually off-trail with some groomers mixed in here and there.  I like bumps (though this isn't a great bump ski or anything) and find that I enjoy a little bit shorter and more frequent carving arc than some other good skiers I know.  This is to be my one quiver do-it-all ski but if I need to make trade offs I'm going to lean towards a setup favoring maneuverability for tight trees with enough stability for cutting through crud.  I ski quickly but am not a racer.

 

4.  Does anyone else happen to have this same equipment setup? (2016 Blizzard Bonafides with Griffon 13 demo bindings - happen to be 180cm length but I don't think it matters for binding mounting from what I have seen).  If you have the same setup could you take a look at your demo track mounting position and see if it is like mine (with the blue arrows) or like the pic I found online (with the yellow arrows)?

 

5.  Any tips for adjusting boot position this season?  Either how to start or minimum time to ski on a given setting before changing?

 

 

Thanks for reading this novel.  Any help is greatly appreciated.

post #2 of 9

You have the front's right. Looks like the heel rail is incorrect.

 

When at "corect [position, it should line up to O on the ski.

post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 

Thanks snofun.  Glad to have some confirmation I at least lined up the front marking right.  Even though the front toe piece is correctly adjusted on the track I still think the track is mounted too far back.  Since the front binding basically sets the position of the boot and my boot is about 1 cm behind the "0" mark on the ski, I'm thinking the mounting is off (also based on the pictures I saw from other skis). 

 

I'm thinking my next steps are going to be:

 

1)  Print off a mounting template and check the screw holes to see if either binding track is mounted where it should be. 

2)  If they aren't, then I'll know that I cannot follow the standard markings/procedure.

3)  Instead I'll use my mid-sole boot mark and the lines on the ski to set my boot position

 

I read some interesting posts about positioning the boot center over the narrowest point on the ski.  I may give that a try.  Anyone else experiment with that approach?

post #4 of 9

My guess is that these bindings were mounted for someone with really short BSL's, so they mounted the toe back of stock (that's why you're 1 cm back) and mounted the heel forward of stock (that, together with the rearward-mounted toe, is why you're running out of heel rail with a 325 mm BSL).  The solution would be to ignore the markings on the bindings, and put your boot so that it's centered relative to the ski, adjusting the forward pressure appropriately.   In doing this you'll be moving the toe and heel forward 1 cm from where they were to start, so that hopefully will give you enough heel rail.  If you want to experiment with positions more forward than this, that shouldn't be an issue, but you're constrained from skiing it rearward of stock.  If you find you need to go in the latter direction, you'll need to have the bindings remounted.

post #5 of 9

Somthing's still weird though. I have a 25.5 boot, and my demo's have that marking (I know - I've used it plenty), whereas yours apparently don't as seen in your first picture. Odd.

 

I'd mount the boot centerline and see how far off everything is. It seems (as you said) that it's off 1cm in front, but waaaay off in the rear, that someone just mounted as they wanted without regard to where it should be.

 

I don't believe that these were for an ultra small boot if they're 180cm bonerfrieds.

post #6 of 9
Quote:

 

Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post
 

Somthing's still weird though. I have a 25.5 boot, and my demo's have that marking (I know - I've used it plenty), whereas yours apparently don't as seen in your first picture. Odd.

 

I'd mount the boot centerline and see how far off everything is. It seems (as you said) that it's off 1cm in front, but waaaay off in the rear, that someone just mounted as they wanted without regard to where it should be.

 

I don't believe that these were for an ultra small boot if they're 180cm bonerfrieds.

I believe this is a confusion here.  

 

As far as I know, the pictured Marker bindings, and Marker bindings I know of (at least my Griffon/demo Griffon and Schizo) have BSL mm. markings, not boot size markings.   For example my boot size is 26.5, whereas my BSL is 304 mm.   A boot size has a range of BSLs.   Again, my 26.5s are as low as 303 mm and as high as 308 mm.   

post #7 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemist View Post
 

My guess is that these bindings were mounted for someone with really short BSL's, so they mounted the toe back of stock (that's why you're 1 cm back) and mounted the heel forward of stock (that, together with the rearward-mounted toe, is why you're running out of heel rail with a 325 mm BSL).  The solution would be to ignore the markings on the bindings, and put your boot so that it's centered relative to the ski, adjusting the forward pressure appropriately.   In doing this you'll be moving the toe and heel forward 1 cm from where they were to start, so that hopefully will give you enough heel rail.  If you want to experiment with positions more forward than this, that shouldn't be an issue, but you're constrained from skiing it rearward of stock.  If you find you need to go in the latter direction, you'll need to have the bindings remounted.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^This, pretty much.

 

Doing this boot centering, also as you indicated in your post #3, you will gain some backward mount position range at the heal and lose some forward range at the toe - but overall have less in total than if the bindings were mounted to spec for your boot size (or than if you had smaller boots:)). 

 

When you experiment on the snow you may find you have enough mount position range for that particular ski, so give it a try before remounting the bindings.  I seem to recall that the range of good settings for the Bonafide is fairly narrow, not like some skis.   

 

Also, you will have to figure out the equivalent toe/heal binding numbers for your BC, and then for small moves forward and back of that - so you can re-create and keep track of the settings you like and why w/o having to re-figure or re-measure them.   

 

(My Marker demo experience: I'm fairly ignorant, not a tech. I don't even know, for example, how to mount the Marker toe and heal pieces on their rails.   But I currently have a number of Marker demo and Marker Schizo binding setups (similar screw mechanics for adjustment), and have used them to find good fore/aft boot positions for a number of skis.)  

 

In answering some of your other questions, for your shorter turn preference and tree manueverabilty, and described use of ski, I suggest you might want to try the BC @ zero position first on the snow, then move half cm. at a time forward next, then try half cm. adjustments back of zero next, to get to know your ski.  Once you've felt the results and can focus in on sweet spots, fine tune their location(s) with 2.5 mm. (~1/4 cm.) adjustments last. 

  

 In answer to part of your question #3, moving mount position forward will probably increase manueverability/lesson stability at some point; and moving mount position back will probably increase stability - and at some point lesson manueverabilty. But there are sometimes surprises, and almost every ski is slightly different. You never know where the best points are for you until you try. 

 

 

As a practical matter,  the big advantage of the Marker demo/Schizo bindings normally is that you can change the Boot Center (BC) mount position forward and back in small, exact distances just by turning the toe and heal screws in small clicks or quarter turns (or just the toe screw, in the case of the Schizos).  This gives some precision to change in settings, and allows changes of ~2 to 3 mm. easily, in addition to half a cm or a whole cm.  

 

You still have this advantage. 

 

As you adjust BC position to try different mount points, count quarter turns of the screw or, if you get definite "clicks" as you turn, count these and make a note of them in relation to the binding numbers.  This way you'll learn how many quarter turns or clicks you'll need to make to change the mount position set for, say, tight trees to a setting for, say, greater crud stability.  Or, if you've noted your corresponding binding bsl numbers, you can use these to quickly move from "sweet spot" setting to setting.  

 

Schizos are a bit easier to do these adjustments with, but demo bindings work well too.   

 

On most of my Marker bindings, there are around 12 "clicks" or quarter turns to a cm., by the way.  But I've noticed small differences from binding to binding.   

 

Sorry for so much detail.  Hope this helps, and good luck!

post #8 of 9

Probably what chemist said. It is likely you can work around this. But it seems odd a demo ski would be goofed up that way. If you have a local shop you trust, consider having them check the bindings out and remounting them at the usual separation. I hate having to do arithmetic or crawl around looking at center marks  if I am messing with skis on the snow or in a rush in the garage. While you might still have to do a quick few clicks to get the forward pressure "just right" (which matters for Royals) - it should be mostly a matter of setting BSL as you guessed. 

post #9 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski otter View Post
 

I believe this is a confusion here.  

 

As far as I know, the pictured Marker bindings, and Marker bindings I know of (at least my Griffon/demo Griffon and Schizo) have BSL mm. markings, not boot size markings.   For example my boot size is 26.5, whereas my BSL is 304 mm.   A boot size has a range of BSLs.   Again, my 26.5s are as low as 303 mm and as high as 308 mm.   

 

You're absolutely right - I must have had a brain fart. Right, my 25.5 have a 295 sole, which would be covered.

 

I still believe these are mis-mounted. There's no way they could otherwise reasonably be so far off.

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