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Anything comparable to Skilogik Ullr's Chariot?

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 

So yes, I know the 1 ski quiver realistically is a myth, but I'm on a budget, and so the pair of skis I'm looking for to replace my K2 Merlin V's (shows how long it's been since I've bought a pair of skis...) need to cover the bases for a while until I can save up for a second pair to cover the roles that the first pair might be lacking in (ie- deep powder).

 

I live in Michigan, and most of my skiing happens here, so first and foremost the ski has to have incredible grip on boilerplate ice - because about half the season, that's what we're skiing on (the rest of the time it's typical groomers - we don't get proper powder at this altitude). I'm an aggressive carver, so the ski has to handle that first and foremost - but, I do plan to head out west from time to time, so something that can also handle powder without making me hate it (like my narrow waisted Merlins do) is another important detail.

 

I demoed offerings from K2, Volkl, Rossignol, and the typical pro-shop brands last winter, and wasn't really pleased with any of them, so I started looking deeper into brands that aren't mainstream, mass produced and marketed stuff, and my sister (a ski patroller who was native to Taos for quite a while) suggested I look to Skilogik.

 

From everything I'd heard, Skilogik's Ullr's Chariot was the ideal ski for what I'm looking for but...well...Skilogik seems to have completely vanished, and REI sold out of the clearance stock of the Ullr's Chariot before I could get the budget saved to buy a pair.

 

Does anyone here have experience with the Ullr's Chariot, to know what else might be comparable that's still available? If not, hit me with your best recommendations...

 

I'm 6'3", 230lbs, and an expert level skier (by the definitions the industry uses).

 

Bonus points if the skis come with bindings, but honestly I'd sacrifice that in in a heartbeat for a ski that's worth it.

post #2 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkaBob View Post
 

I demoed offerings from K2, Volkl, Rossignol, and the typical pro-shop brands last winter, and wasn't really pleased with any of them, so I started looking deeper into brands that aren't mainstream, mass produced and marketed stuff, and my sister (a ski patroller who was native to Taos for quite a while) suggested I look to Skilogik.

 

With all due respect, handling powder at 230 lbs is not going to be within the envelope of any Michigan incredible gripper.     I strongly suggest you rent or demo on your western trips.

Do you remember what you demoed?    For example, did you try any of Head's Monster series? 

post #3 of 30

I've always been curious about Skilogik.  I've never met anyone that skied them, but they are beautiful skis.  I don't know if they are having problems or something, but they are a small operation, so not finding them widely distributed like K2, Volkl, etc, isn't too surprising.  I'm surprised to hear that somebody as big as REI ever carried them; I never saw any SkiLogiks in my local REI shop.

 

You say you want an all-mountain ski, but one that specialized in groomers and ice.  I agree a wider base will help some with the powder, but I would be willing to bet you'll still have a hard time until you get exposed to it enough to really learn to ski it.  A 90-100 mm width underfoot can only do so much, and if you go any wider than that you will definitely start to lose performance on the groomers/ice.  My guess is you are putting your weight aggressively forward and edging hard, being used to ice.  That simply won't work well in powder, and you'll manage to sink 90-100 mm width skis pretty well doing that all the same.

 

I know Volkl's the best, but I'm sure others will come out with different suggestions.  I'm not sure what to really recommend, but maybe something on the wider side of the Volkl RTM series?  Or maybe the 90Eight or the 100Eight, which are really "edgy".  If I were you, I think I'd buy a pair for Michigan, and just do some daily demos from a good shop when you head West if there is decent powder and you want to experience what true powder skis are all about.  And please don't take this the wrong way, because I don't doubt you are good at skiing the runs you have available to you in Michigan.  But maybe take a private lesson when you get out here to get a few good pointers, learn about any bad habits you have that might give you a hard time in powder.  I think a lot of people that "can't ski powder" are just very used to digging in hard and/or skidding around on the groomers.  Powder requires more subtlety. 

 

My uncle-in-law, who skis an awful lot in Michigan, came out here on a ski trip once.  We happened to get in a good powder day while he was here.  He hated it, couldn't ski it at all.  So you are not alone.

post #4 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

 

With all due respect, handling powder at 230 lbs is not going to be within the envelope of any Michigan incredible gripper.     I strongly suggest you rent or demo on your western trips.

Do you remember what you demoed?    For example, did you try any of Head's Monster series? 

 

Yeah I know, but something with a wider waist than the 84-88mm or so that a full on carve ski like a Front Burner or my Merlins have can still have excellent carving and ice handling capabilities without going full-width for powder skiing.  I'd most likely demo out west as well as bringing my own skis, but I know I can at least get something I'm not going to hate on the days where even the front side of the hill out there has more powder than will let me get down to the hard pack...

 

Not 100% sure if I demoed the Monsters, but I did demo a couple pairs of Head skis there.  Their color schemes are all so similar on the websites I'm having trouble telling which one it was...

 

Other skis I know I demoed were: Volkl Code and 100Eight, a narrow waisted Rossignol Experience, Nordica Fire Arrow, Atomic Nomad/Vantage (not sure which, the colors thing again...heh), Blizzard Brahma, and the K2 Ikonic and I think one of the K2 AMP skis...

 

One of the pairs of Volkls was alright, but I really didn't like how far back my weight had to be to get a lively turn out of them.  The K2 AMP were alright, but kind of numb entering turns. None of the skis stood out as a pair I'd want to spend money to own...

post #5 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clong83 View Post
 

I've always been curious about Skilogik.  I've never met anyone that skied them, but they are beautiful skis.  I don't know if they are having problems or something, but they are a small operation, so not finding them widely distributed like K2, Volkl, etc, isn't too surprising.  I'm surprised to hear that somebody as big as REI ever carried them; I never saw any SkiLogiks in my local REI shop.

 

You say you want an all-mountain ski, but one that specialized in groomers and ice.  I agree a wider base will help some with the powder, but I would be willing to bet you'll still have a hard time until you get exposed to it enough to really learn to ski it.  A 90-100 mm width underfoot can only do so much, and if you go any wider than that you will definitely start to lose performance on the groomers/ice.  My guess is you are putting your weight aggressively forward and edging hard, being used to ice.  That simply won't work well in powder, and you'll manage to sink 90-100 mm width skis pretty well doing that all the same.

 

I know Volkl's the best, but I'm sure others will come out with different suggestions.  I'm not sure what to really recommend, but maybe something on the wider side of the Volkl RTM series?  Or maybe the 90Eight or the 100Eight, which are really "edgy".  If I were you, I think I'd buy a pair for Michigan, and just do some daily demos from a good shop when you head West if there is decent powder and you want to experience what true powder skis are all about.  And please don't take this the wrong way, because I don't doubt you are good at skiing the runs you have available to you in Michigan.  But maybe take a private lesson when you get out here to get a few good pointers, learn about any bad habits you have that might give you a hard time in powder.  I think a lot of people that "can't ski powder" are just very used to digging in hard and/or skidding around on the groomers.  Powder requires more subtlety. 

 

My uncle-in-law, who skis an awful lot in Michigan, came out here on a ski trip once.  We happened to get in a good powder day while he was here.  He hated it, couldn't ski it at all.  So you are not alone.

 

I'd heard nothing but great things about Skilogik, but from what my sister heard from the shop she talks to most in Utah, after they moved their production to China, the skis got so bad the shops stopped buying them entirely (and seeing as even their website and facebook have gone dark, it sounds like that killed the company). The 2015 models are apparently the latest ones worth buying.  REI had them in their outlet site - you can still get Front Burners (which I'd order a pair of, but they sold out of my size earlier this week, and won't be getting more), but the other Skilogik skis they used to sell are totally gone.

 

I demoed a couple pairs of Volkls, but I wasn't pleased with how...I don't want to say unforgiving, but...maybe over-bitey they were on turn-in? I found myself catching my front side edges when I dove into deep carves, or tried to string together turns too rapidly.  With a bit of practice I got used to it, but I had to step down how I was skiing to keep them happy.

 

I had the same experience as your uncle-in-law when I went to Winter Park.  I could easily recognize it was my technique (though I'm sure the narrow waist of my Merlins wasn't doing me any favors).  When I go out west next, I'm definitely investing in a day of instruction on powder skiing.

post #6 of 30

There are very many crossover skis with middling-to-OKish to passable grip;  but that very much softens your strong emphasis on grip in your initial post.  

  If you're set on boutique brands Armada make them, Ramp make them, 4FRNT make them, Faction make them, Rocky Mountain Underground make them, Zag make them &c.  it's just a question of finding one that works for your size and style. 

 

Talking of your style, are you in relatively recently fitted boots?

 

Skilogik has a somewhat spotty reputation on this forum for their finish tuning, but are well liked otherwise. 

post #7 of 30
Skilogic did not "move production to China", it was always in China. What did you like/not like about the different skis you demoed (I realize that you don't remember exact ski models, just looking for impressions and issues, overall). I suspect what you are feeling is, the Merlin V is as 'old school' as you can get and still say you have a 'shape ski'. Modern skis are going to take a bit of adaption, also don't believe the hype, a 100mm ski is not going to be fun on mid west groomers. It also won't be fun in powder, you are looking at a 'jack of no trades' solution, not good on firm or in soft. These are great as all around skis for folks who live where it snows, they are a bad choice for people who anticipate they might go out west at some point.
post #8 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

There are very many crossover skis with middling-to-OKish to passable grip;  but that very much softens your strong emphasis on grip in your initial post.  

  If you're set on boutique brands Armada make them, Ramp make them, 4FRNT make them, Faction make them, Rocky Mountain Underground make them, Zag make them &c.  it's just a question of finding one that works for your size and style. 

 

Talking of your style, are you in relatively recently fitted boots?

 

Skilogik has a somewhat spotty reputation on this forum for their finish tuning, but are well liked otherwise. 

 

My boots are outdated, as well.  I'm basically putting together a full package when I purchase.  Everything I currently have is from when I bought the K2 Merlins...

 

I'm not set on boutique brands, I just haven't been pleased with the skis the pro shop offered me when I told them how I ski, and what I'm looking for.  If a major brand has the ski I want, I'm not against buying it...

post #9 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkaBob View Post

 

My boots are outdated, as well.  I'm basically putting together a full package when I purchase.  Everything I currently have is from when I bought the K2 Merlins...

 

 

I strongly suggest you reform that plan, thus:  plow 80% of your budget into boots, use 10-15% of your budget to buy a passable set of swap skis.    By 'passable' I mean "2011 or newer that will for sure hold an edge in Michigan".
 

When (after) you get used to the new boots (with lessons presumably) go back and demo some 2017s. 

post #10 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

Skilogic did not "move production to China", it was always in China. What did you like/not like about the different skis you demoed (I realize that you don't remember exact ski models, just looking for impressions and issues, overall). I suspect what you are feeling is, the Merlin V is as 'old school' as you can get and still say you have a 'shape ski'. Modern skis are going to take a bit of adaption, also don't believe the hype, a 100mm ski is not going to be fun on mid west groomers. It also won't be fun in powder, you are looking at a 'jack of no trades' solution, not good on firm or in soft. These are great as all around skis for folks who live where it snows, they are a bad choice for people who anticipate they might go out west at some point.

 

Fair enough.  I'd gotten the impression from their website (before it went down) that they'd moved part of their organization from the US to China.  Maybe it was part of their operations side of things?

 

What I'm used to from my Merlins, is that I can initiate the turn easily (whether I'm just gently leaning into the turn, or diving into it aggressively) and the ski will hook up and hold the edge solidly, no matter what the speed or surface.  When I demoed them, they really blew my mind with how composed they were, without even a hint of chatter on the solid sheet of ice on the face of Nubs Knob that day.  They've always been very predictable, while still being very aggressive when I wanted to get my ear down close to the snow - whether I was doing poppy slalom turns, or longer GS style carves.

 

The skis I demoed this past winter all seemed to need to be bullied into getting on edge, some of them were very slidey/sloppy coming into the turn until the edge was hard set, and a lot of them would try to force themselves out of the turn early if I tried to carve a long turn out of them.  The higher end green/white/black Volkls were especially bad about that.  They seemed to have a "slalom turns or nothing" attitude.

 

I basically felt like I was fighting pretty much every pair I tried, and the ones I wasn't fighting, it was because they were too numb to really get aggressive with...

 

You're right that the Merlin V is "old school", and I really haven't kept up to date much on my knowledge of how the technologies and design styles of shaped skis have changed since then, because they've always been such a great ski so I wasn't really looking.  Am I just behind the times in how I expect skis to behave?

post #11 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

 

I strongly suggest you reform that plan, thus:  plow 80% of your budget into boots, use 10-15% of your budget to buy a passable set of swap skis.    By 'passable' I mean "2011 or newer that will for sure hold an edge in Michigan".
 

When (after) you get used to the new boots (with lessons presumably) go back and demo some 2017s. 

 

Sorry, I probably should've been more clear.  By putting together the full package, I didn't mean one of those package deals that has skis paired with whatever binding and boot keeps the price low.  I mean picking each part for how good it is.

 

I am, however, severely limited in what I can do to find a good boot.  Out west there are tons of shops that will go to great lengths to fit you in a good boot.  Here, every ski shop is the alpine equivalent of Foot Locker.  They have 10 or 15 different boots, and say, "Well, find one that's comfortable. That's all you need." If you asked them for any tips on advanced fit beyond "it doesn't pinch my calf, and my toes aren't scrunched", you're well beyond what anyone selling boots in Michigan has any knowledge in.

 

I'd love to go out west and have a fitting like my sister got from that shop she likes in SLC.  4 hours of trying on boots until she found just the right pair.  Unfortunately, I don't have the budget for that trip and buying gear.

post #12 of 30

I hear you.    I shake my head sadly but I hear you.    Luck and good snow to you. 

post #13 of 30

ok... could anyone here be able to suggest a good boot fitter located in MI anywhere 100-200mi radius from your location? (I mean you could drive like 4 hrs each way to get your boots dialed, could you?)

post #14 of 30

I have an old pair of K2 4s from the late 90s that I still pull out every now and again for very early season rock days and/or sand dune skiing.  Every time I put them on I can't get over how different they are from anything in the last ten years.  Whatever you get, it is definitely going to be a different feel that may take a few days for you to fully adjust to.

 

But the trick to skiing powder really is experience and proper instruction.  Fatter skis will help make it easier, but to really make it "easy" to avoid sinking at 230 pounds, you'll need to get something super fat that will be outright horrible back home, and 90-100 won't really help unless you already have an inkling of how to ski it.

 

Before you get too disheartened, remember that 15 short years ago 89 underfoot was FAT, and powder was no less fun.  Don't buy into the marketing notion that you absolutely need 100+ underfoot to ski or enjoy powder. 

 

If your old Merlins are in decent enough shape (have a ski shop check those old bindings if you haven't done so recently), I might even suggest hanging on to them for another season while you upgrade your boots instead.  Don't know if you could make the budget work for a proper boot fitting at a good shop if you avoid buying skis altogether for the year, but it's a thought.  Two years ago I had a couple of major edge blowouts early and was left with a quiver of only my ancient K2 4s for half the season.  Got some weird looks on powder days, but I could still ski past a lot of people riding skis with 110+ underneath.  And fun was still more than plentiful.

post #15 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg S View Post
 

ok... could anyone here be able to suggest a good boot fitter located in MI anywhere 100-200mi radius from your location? (I mean you could drive like 4 hrs each way to get your boots dialed, could you?)

I'd love it if they could, but considering all the ski hills anywhere near here shy of Blue Mountain in Canada are man-made sand (or trash) piles, there really isn't much of a ski industry in the midwest. I'm in the Detroit area, and I think we've got about the most reputable shop around, in a place called Schummer's in Grosse Pointe.  That's where I got my last boots, and that's where my "does it pinch your calf, and do your toes fit" fitting was done.  If there are better places I'd be willing to travel within reason to get to them...

post #16 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clong83 View Post

 

If your old Merlins are in decent enough shape (have a ski shop check those old bindings if you haven't done so recently)

 

The skis are in modestly good shape, but the bindings are from the 90s.  They should be replaced. Skiing on them is more of a risk as time goes on...

post #17 of 30

Well, I used to have Merlin Axispro's and the V's "back in the day", and now have some Ski Logiks among other things - how's that for karma?

 

So, "back in the day" while owning the Merlins, I

 

  demoed a whole bunch of things, one day, and found some Dynastar Crossmax 10's that were a revelation from the K2's that started me on a Dynastar jag of 800's, 8800's Mythic Riders, XXL,s etc. That went along until the Sultan's, that were yuck. Then came the Cham's, that were even more yuck, so that stopped the Dynastar love affair, but, the point being that FOR SURE you can find something that will knock your socks off if you look.

 

 

 

 

So, being a gear whore, I tried more K2's and found the Rictor that was popular at the time the ski most likely to be removed from my feet ASAP due to non-performance. What a horrible POS. I did find love with the Obsethed's but have long moved on from them, so I have the K2 love that went away over time.

 

So, moving to today, amongst other things, I have a pair of Ski Logik Rock Stars.

 

 

Coolest graphics EVAH!.

 

 

They LOVE to turn

 

 

So, my Ski Logik history - I bought them at Ski Loft in SLC after being assured that they were the best EVER, and that all their skis had tunes done before selling. The next day I went to Snowbird with a 10 inch dump, and they were the worst performing skis I'd ever been on (even worse than the Rictors!). Complete garbage. Ski Loft told me it was the way I skiied them. Right, 48 years experience and probably >200 pairs of skis on my feet, and it's the way I skied them :rolleyes. Thankfully I had my Patron's in the car too, so the day wasn't totally wasted.  For the rest of the season they got passed around to my SLC buds, who unanimously agreed they were crap.

 

Thought about it all summer long, and finally got in touch with Ski Logik who said that they had a major issue with tunes from the factory, and suggested I take them back. So, I took them back to Ski Loft, and they finally agreed to do what they said they always did - tune them! The result - my FAVORITE ski, that I've been trying to find another pair for my WB quiver, but no luck so far. They can rail like banshees but float wonderfully when there's soft. The Patron's almost seem dead after playing with these.

 

Would I suggest you get a pair of Ski Logiks? No. Find something more mainstream that's being supported by a manufacturer. I was on their site not long ago looking for another pair of Rock Stars (maybe 2 months ago?) but confirm that it's not there anymore. I'll search eghey and whatnot trying to find another pair

 

Truly, most every late model ski can run circles around an old Merlin as I know well from my Dynastar experience.

 

If I was a Michigan skier looking for a GREAT ski that can deal with lots of bulletproof ice, I'd probably be looking at the Kastle line (I know, I'm very predictable), as they are just light years beyond most other offerings.This is what I had at SLC, so I had hard, soft and powder covered, but it's been augmented (of course) since then.

 

 

 

My hard snow ski at both WB and SLC is the MX88, but knowing as icy it can be (I'm a recovered least coast skier), probably a 83 or 78 would be better for you.


Edited by snofun3 - 8/5/16 at 7:13am
post #18 of 30
Thread Starter 

"Truly, most every late model ski can run circles around an old Merlin as I know well from my Dynastar experience."

 

This whole post exists because I found that to be patently untrue, sorry... Compared to a Merlin III or IV?  Sure.  The V and VI were different beasts entirely...

 

Thanks for the recommendation on Kastle, though.  I'll give their skis a look. Are you familiar at all with their CPM model?

post #19 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkaBob View Post
 

 

What I'm used to from my Merlins, is that I can initiate the turn easily (whether I'm just gently leaning into the turn, or diving into it aggressively) and the ski will hook up and hold the edge solidly, no matter what the speed or surface.  When I demoed them, they really blew my mind with how composed they were, without even a hint of chatter on the solid sheet of ice on the face of Nubs Knob that day.  They've always been very predictable, while still being very aggressive when I wanted to get my ear down close to the snow - whether I was doing poppy slalom turns, or longer GS style carves.

 

The skis I demoed this past winter all seemed to need to be bullied into getting on edge, some of them were very slidey/sloppy coming into the turn until the edge was hard set, and a lot of them would try to force themselves out of the turn early if I tried to carve a long turn out of them.  The higher end green/white/black Volkls were especially bad about that.  They seemed to have a "slalom turns or nothing" attitude.

 

I basically felt like I was fighting pretty much every pair I tried, and the ones I wasn't fighting, it was because they were too numb to really get aggressive with...

 

You're right that the Merlin V is "old school", and I really haven't kept up to date much on my knowledge of how the technologies and design styles of shaped skis have changed since then, because they've always been such a great ski so I wasn't really looking.  Am I just behind the times in how I expect skis to behave?

What you are describing, I feel, is Old School ski technique being applied to modern skis- steering the ski across the fall line and then engaging the edges,  pressure is applied in a short impulse, the ski decambers then pressure is released getting a spring-like 'pop'. Modern ski design, much more sidecut, has changed technique of most better skiers to eliminate much of this steering from turn initiation. The ski is tipped onto the edge engaging the ski's sidecut at the top of the turn, the sidecut combined with gradually building pressure decambers the ski... this feels like less 'pop' but when done with precision generates all kinds of crazy energy. Carving skis were an immediate game-changer for most skiers, breaking people out of the intermediate rut, the skis literally turned themselves.  As people started to ski differently and 'carving' became the bench mark of high performance skiing, we started to realize that 'carving' and skiing difficult snow in difficult terrain were a bit... incompatible. So 'freeride skis' appeared, more width and less sidecut, for performance in ungroomed snow where sidecut could lead to skis reacting to the soft snow and feeling 'hooky'. One was good in soft snow and one was good on groomers... neither was very good on the others playing field. What came next was adding rocker. By removing camber from the tip of the ski (or tip and tail) you can have your sidecut for performance on firm snow but tone down the 'hooky' feel in soft snow. Right now we are in an era of the very best all-mountain skis that have ever existed (of course progress marches ever forward and what comes next will inevitably be even better), they can do a bit of everything at remarkably high levels... but the technique needs to have evolved along with it in order for it to work at all. Rocker and 'modern' sidecut, combined with 'traditional' 'steer then load' technique is a recipe for vague feeling turn initiation, chattering and a complete absence of 'life'. Time to upgrade the ski technique.

 

... or maybe I'm way off base.

post #20 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
 

What you are describing, I feel, is Old School ski technique being applied to modern skis- steering the ski across the fall line and then engaging the edges,  pressure is applied in a short impulse, the ski decambers then pressure is released getting a spring-like 'pop'...The ski is tipped onto the edge engaging the ski's sidecut at the top of the turn, the sidecut combined with gradually building pressure decambers the ski...Rocker and 'modern' sidecut, combined with 'traditional' 'steer then load' technique is a recipe for vague feeling turn initiation, chattering and a complete absence of 'life'. Time to upgrade the ski technique.

 

 

I wondered this a bit myself, and I did learn to ski in the old parallel skiing, pre-sidecut days, but as soon as shaped skis came out I adapted to what I think is what you're describing as a more modern technique.  That's why I said I wonder if I'm expecting the wrong things from the skis.

 

When I turn (and this is all, of course, oversimplified because it's what I feel and doesn't include anything of what it looks like to anyone that might watch to critique my technique), the only thing that remains from the way I learned to ski as a kid is the pole plant (tap, really, just to set a mental point for initiation), then I begin leaning into the turn and while doing so bring my inside foot forward as the turn brings my knee upwards, keeping my legs further apart than I would on the old straight skis doing parallel technique, and basically I let the skis do all the work while I keep my body in a position that fights against that as little as possible.

 

I'm not sure if you can discern from that if I'm doing anything that the intervening couple decades since I bought my Merlins has made "bad form"...

 

I also wonder if I'm looking at skis with a shorter turning radius than I'm expecting. I picked the Merlin V because it was as agressive as the VI, but had a shorter turning radius (since the VI was basically billed as a GS race ski, and I was looking for something more versatile).  I seem to recall I did the math with one of those online turning radius calculators and a ruler (since the Merlins are so old nobody mentioned turning radius in the spec, just tip/waist/tail widths), and it came out with something like a 19-21m radius, where a lot of the skis I demoed were 14-19m. What I really didn't like about the Volkls I spent most of the demo day on (because they hooked up the best, even if I didn't like how they skied) was the feeling like they were forcing me out of the turn sooner than I wanted to, when I wanted to lay down a long carve.  Was I just fighting the shape of the ski there, or should I be able to pull off a longer turn than that?  They felt like they were trying to force a slalom rhythm, rather than flowing, high speed carves...

post #21 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
 

What you are describing, I feel, is Old School ski technique being applied to modern skis-

... or maybe I'm way off base.

 

No, you're right on. One of the reasons the Dynastar's worked for me was that they were tolerant of different styles and techniques.

 

For sure Kastle's are also tolerant, having an "old school" feel and construction. No doubt there are others.

 

SkaBob, I think you got it rigfht waying that you were fighting the ski. They are SO much more responsive now that you have to give yourself time to get accustomed to working with them

post #22 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkaBob View Post

I'd love it if they could, but considering all the ski hills anywhere near here shy of Blue Mountain in Canada are man-made sand (or trash) piles, there really isn't much of a ski industry in the midwest. I'm in the Detroit area, and I think we've got about the most reputable shop around, in a place called Schummer's in Grosse Pointe.  That's where I got my last boots, and that's where my "does it pinch your calf, and do your toes fit" fitting was done.  If there are better places I'd be willing to travel within reason to get to them...

A longshot perhaps but do you travel for business regularly and to the same locale? Does that area have a good ski shop?
post #23 of 30

A few years ago I read a review on on SkiLogik's Ullr's Chariot.  The editors said they loved the ski.  Gave it their highest recommendation.  Impressed by their lack of reserve, I snapped up a demo pair in the off-season.  Didn't pay much.  Figured it was worth the gamble.  They were right!  It is a FABULOUS ski.  It will do just about anything well.  They float well in the pow and hold an edge on the groomers.  If you can find a pair (especially if you like the top-sheet graphics) take them home.  

 

If you end up hating'em think of them as artwork and hang them on a wall somewhere.  But you won't hate them.  

 

SL made the Chariot in twin-tip (TT) as well as with a more traditional non-twin called an RL.  If you have the option, skip the TT's (unless you are a certified gotta-land-it-backward kind of guy).  At speed, the TT's put up an enormous rooster-tail of snow.  It will literally take people out.  Stick with the RL if you have a choice.

 

Ullr's Chariot is just about perfect in any conditions typical at Rocky Mountain resorts.  I can't speak for how well they will do in Michigan.  Probably okay. Roll them over on their edges and they bite and hold well.  But they are not ice-skates.  For resorts in the Western US, SkiLogik's Ullr's Chariot I have not experienced a better "one-ski quiver."   

 

Unfortunately, SkiLogik may be out of business.  Their web-site is down.  Not much info available on the net.  But I wouldn't count them out.  They really made a wonderful ski.  Wouldn't surprise me if they claw their way back.  When they do, I'll probably buy another set.

 

Meanwhile, troll eBay.  Search one of the "All of Craigslist" sites.  

 

I just picked up a used set of SL's Depth Hoar.  It is a full-on dedicated powder ski.  Some camber, so they won't be complete mutts.  But the plan is to leave them alone until we get some solid dumper-days.  Seemed like they'd be a lot of fun.

 

As to the boot question, consider Daleboot.  Totally worth it.   Skip SureFoot.  The fitting process is painful and prolonged.  I wouldn't take another set if they were free.   There is a  

post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by artbros View Post
 

 

As to the boot question, consider Daleboot.  Totally worth it.   Skip SureFoot.  The fitting process is painful and prolonged.  I wouldn't take another set if they were free.   There is a  

Patently bad "advice" for your first post.

 

Dale boot tend to use old molds that may, or may not fit your feet and actually do something useful. I was in SLC determined to find nirvana after my latest attempt with some Fisher Vacuum's proved less than successful, primarily due to how cold they were, even though they fit pretty well. When I asked around about Daleboot there were more than a few guffaws and smirks in that their offerings were "aged". For some they might be fine, but anyway Superfeet came up as a potential, and they did a fitting on me.

 

I now have 2 pairs of Surefoot boots, and for the first time, after 50 years of skiing, and going to some of the best bootfitters at the best resorts in North America, I actually have something that fits like a glove and is ultra responsive. So just FYI, the fitting process is far from painful, and in fact, the Vacuum fitting is far more stressful, AND it takes about 45 minutes from soup to nuts to walk out with custom liners, so apparently you haven't been through the process you maligned.

post #25 of 30

Daleboot?  Really?  I know a guy with a pair and they're a POC.  Worst buckles I've ever seen and just very poorly made.  I know someone else who used to swear by Daleboot but now only swears at them.

post #26 of 30

At 230 pounds and as an east coast skier, you must look versatility but always with edge hold in mind... Here are suggestions from another 230 pounds skier:

 

Volkl RTM 84 in 182

Volkl Kendo in 184

 

 

There is also Scott The Ski in 185 that looks a lot like the Kendo when put side to side but the Ski are a tad less serious ski than the Kendo

 

There is also my Magnum 8.5  that are for sale...:rolleyes

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/146612/fs-blizzard-magnum-8-5-ti-flat-new-181-cm

post #27 of 30

It really is a shame they went out of business... the UC twin tip was my go to ski when I didn't know what to expect- a truly excellent one ski quiver choice. Certainly not ideal for everything, but at the very least sufficient, and often excellent to outstanding. I actually just sold my fourth and last pair assuming I would be able to get a new set only to find they had gone out of business :( Additionally upsetting is the fact that now I won't be able to get a new pair of Rock Stars either... my favourite powder ski ever. 

 

I realise I haven't actually suggested any alternatives- I guess I'm more here to commiserate and echo your desire for another ski akin to the chariot.

 

For those who haven't tried them, they are 101 under foot with a 15m turn (in every length I believe). Twin tipped, but with traditional camber and a lot of it. Longitudinally flexy but torsionally stiff.

 

Does that description help anyone think of something comparable?

 

RIP Skilogik, thanks for all the great feels.

 

Edit: btw my first pair was the RL variety, and they were fine but I preferred the TT much more, mostly because I tend to prefer traditional cabmber all the way. I did hear great things about the later model RLs though.

post #28 of 30

My experience with Surefoot was prolonged and painful.  I'd never do it again.  The custom footbed was easy.  But part where you stand there in the boot while they inject their secret-sauce into the liner created immense pressure.  I brought those boots back time after time to relieve pressure points.  SureFoot's injection process put so much pressure on the knuckles of my foot that Morton's Neuroma blossomed.  Surgery was required to treat it.  I would never repeat, or recommend anyone deal with Surefoot or their antiquated, expensive and sub-par boot fitting process.

 

But if you like SureFoot, congratulations.   By the way, SuperFeet and SureFoot are different companies.  Maybe you just got confused.  It's a common affliction in Boca.

post #29 of 30

SkaBob,

 

Hello and I am glad I stumbled on this thread. It pushes all my buttons as far as interest goes. I am a Clyde (Clydesdale) who is 1" taller than you and same weight (I just lost 20 lbs or so this summer). I converted from straight ski technique about 4-5 years ago, I am a East Coast skier (Boston area), and the first pair of shaped skis I bought were Chariot's. I still own a Chariot in 178cm and a Depth Hoar, 192 cm. I learned the hard way, when you buy a Ski Logik ski, have to have the base ground to appropriate bevels and the skis are magic. Don't grind, and they can be hit or miss. Also, make sure the shop knows how to do a grind, an awful lot do not.

 

To give you an answer to your replacement question, I would recommend a Nordica Enforcer or a Blizzard Bonefide. I would also suggest looking at the Blizzard Brahma and the Slaomon X-Drive 8.8 FS. You like the Chariot for the same reason I do, when you roll them on edge, they turn themselves. I think you are using modern technique to ski them, at least mostly modern. They ski that way because of the 15 m radius. There is probably no other ski of that width with that small a radius and fully cambered. (I have the TT's) My 178cm skis are "fat" slalom skis. I like slalom skis, hence I love the Chariots. The Chariots can handle our weight in 178 and in 188 length. 188 would be a little more GS feel and probably the better choice for out West. In the East, either is fine in my opinion. What length was the ski you tried??

 

I will add more to this reply, but I am short on time right now. I will say the Chariots grip ice as well as any ski short of a race stock ski. Most will not believe this unless they have skied them with a good tune. With a bad tune, they can be a nightmare. They are ideal East Coast spring condition skis. They float and are perfectly stable in mashed potato snow. they grip the morning ice like a pit bull. They are the best spring ski I have ever been on.  In powder, the tips dive, but they can be skied very easily, just below the snow, not on top. Having said all that, I would not choose them as my 1 ski quiver for the East coast. The reason being the tips and tails are really wide, the equavalent of a 120mm wide ski. You will notice this on ice and hardpack. It becomes a lot of effort to keep them on edge all day long. As soon as the snow is soft, that goes away and they become a dream to ski. The 101 mm underfoot is kind of misleading, I think of them as my 120mm ski that is really turny. For me, they are a wide slalom ski that can handle any condition and make short or long radius turns. They are pretty unique in the fact you can make GS turns all day long at high speed and they are happy and relaxed. Roll em more on edge and they go short radius mode and get turny, but they are not real quick edge to edge.  Rolling those 145mm wide tips on edge takes some time and effort on hard pack. On a frozen spring morning that will melt into corn, they work great with good edge grip on the frozen and stable ride on the corn.

 

If you want one ski for East Coast and West Coast trips, the Chariots would be good. You might consider getting something with narrower tips and tails that are less work to roll on edge for East Coast ice. Even the Chariots aren't as good as a wide rockered ski in powder, so optimize your East Coast performance rather than splitting it for both. The bones and enforcers have tips that are in the 130mm range, and will carve quicker edge to edge. The enforcers are better in soft and the bones better in hard. Based on what you describe, the Bones might be the way to go. If you really want good carving on hardpack, then a 88mm wide ski is a step up, such as the Brahma. It will be a step down out west, but still skiable in powder. I would rather be on the chariots in powder, but look at the number of ski days to guide your decision. In deep powder, I would rather be on my Depth Hoars. They are 143mm wide underfoot and truly float someone our size. Even a 120mm wide ski wont' float you on top of the snow, but you don't have to be right on top to enjoy powder.

 

More to follow


Edited by bttocs - 11/7/16 at 1:21pm
post #30 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkaBob View Post

I am, however, severely limited in what I can do to find a good boot.  Out west there are tons of shops that will go to great lengths to fit you in a good boot.  Here, every ski shop is the alpine equivalent of Foot Locker.  They have 10 or 15 different boots, and say, "Well, find one that's comfortable. That's all you need." If you asked them for any tips on advanced fit beyond "it doesn't pinch my calf, and my toes aren't scrunched", you're well beyond what anyone selling boots in Michigan has any knowledge in.
Talk to Rob at Sun and Snow in Plymouth and Ann Arbor, I think you'll change your mind. He's done a lot of good work for me, my wife and a bunch of my friends, he's very engaging and will spend the time it takes to get you set up.

Your impression of some of the skis you've tried does sound like mine of these things that have a lot of rocker: real smeary at low angles, rock-hard feeling in the tips until you get them well up on edge, and an abrupt release. Probably great on the kind of day we rarely get in SE MI, but I hate them, and with an old-school skiing style? Nyet.

I love my Head Rev85 Pros, for me they handle everything very well all season - not too wide, good camber and sidecut, with a bit of early rise in the tip but not really rockered, makes a great daily driver to patrol in. I've used them in everything from boilerplate to 15" of Utah fresh and they were fine. I'm 4" and 65 lbs smaller than you so your results may vary, but surely there's gotta be something similar for you.
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