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Looking for duck foot boots or Offset binding advice - Page 2

post #31 of 53

Lpass - back to the yoga for a minute..I'm more duck-footed than the average person, probably like you. It's true that just about everyone's ski tips point out when sitting on the lift, but mine point out more.  I also at one point thought about having my bindings mounted at an angle so that I would have a more 'natural'stance while on skis - but ultimately decided against it.  Where my duck - footed stance was the most problimatic  was skinning while backcountry skiing.  It was very difficult for me to maintain 2 parallel lines while skinning uphill.  My skin tracks looked more like a herringbone pattern.  What I noticed was that when I 'forced' myself to keep my skis parallel while skinning, my butt muscles really started to hurt - I think it's probably the Piriformis muscle, which has a primary function of rotating the leg outward (Duck-Footed) in the hip socket.   I looked into yoga and stretching out this muscle, which in my case was always very tight (ok - get all the 'tight-ass' jokes out of the way).  With lots of stretching over time, this definitely lessened my duck-footedness  - it probably won't take it away completely, your anatomy is what it is, but it definitely helped in my skiing. The reason I found this out skinning (on longer flatter approaches) is that there was no affect from potential ski technique issues or stance  issues, or issues that crop up on terrain that is more difficult or pushing the boundaries of my skiing skills - basically removed these variables.  So, my suggestion would be to find a very easy flat traverse, concentrate on keeping skis absolutely parallel, and 'shuffle' your skis (simulate skinning) for a while on some flat terrain and notice if there's any area of your anatomy that feels really tight or becomes painful - chances are, that may point you to whatever muscles are too tight and would benefit from yoga and stretching - could be your Piriformis also.

post #32 of 53
DaleBoot
post #33 of 53

The most simple and probably the best answer is to not worry about your ski boots for anything other than making turns. Anything else is technical blasphemy. 

post #34 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpass View Post
 

I started research on stretching exercises to help realign the hips. I've seen quite a few videos all with different exercises and approaches. Anyone have exercises that they have tried and would recommend?

Perhaps not exactly what you are thinking about, but I would think these exercises are good for any skier.

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/142292/2-simple-hip-drills-to-mobilize-the-hips-for-the-season

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post





Pry squats & butterflies- now is a great time to try both each day to get the hips able to access range for skiing.
Cheers & think snow!
post #35 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveturner View Post
 

I think you  are missing one key point and may be focussing on the wrong part of your anatomy.  An additional stance issue is which way do your knees point when your feet face forward?  I think the best anatomical position is to have your feet facing forward with your knees flexing forward. Unfortunately when my feet face forward my knees flex inward unless I build up the inside edges of my insoles. Check your knee flex when you're feet are flat on the floor facing forward.  If the knees rotate inward Try putting a medium thickness magazine under the inside third of each foot and see how that impacts your knee flex. I ski Fischer boots and don't see much difference in the current Fischers and several of my older boots.


Hi Steve I was curious so i did what you suggested and took some pics. I found that when I stand in my normal stance and flex forward my knees are fine, but when I force my feet straight and flex forward, my knees turn in. I then put dvd cases underneath the inside third of my feet and noticed that when I flexed forward my knees did not turn in nearly as much.  What do you mean by 'build up the inside edges of my insoles?'

post #36 of 53

I'm no physiotherapist and have not studied anatomy to any great extent, but I think that's just the way most folks bones work, something to do with the ankle and knee joints.  Maybe your knees come in a little bit more than some, I can't say, but in any event what you need is to get a good boot fitter to align you in a pair of boots, as has been said up-thread.

post #37 of 53
Now you talking alignment which you desperately need. Go to an alignment Tech and find out what you need. if needed they will add shims to the bottom of your boots and make everything line up correctly. Footbeds will also be needed to complete the process.
post #38 of 53
Thread Starter 

http://skibootalignment.com/stance.html

 

Does anyone know of a qualified boot fitter / ski shop in or near Connecticut that knows about canting bindings and just as important know whether it's something I should do?

post #39 of 53
L, your shooting at boogy men in the dark UNTIL you actually have your alignment checked. If you need a medical consult, I'm sure there are orthopedic, podiatry, etc... docs in your area with ski knowledge that can help more than posting here looking for affirmation of a problem than no one here can possibly tell you the degree to which it exists.
post #40 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

L, your shooting at boogy men in the dark UNTIL you actually have your alignment checked. If you need a medical consult, I'm sure there are orthopedic, podiatry, etc... docs in your area with ski knowledge that can help more than posting here looking for affirmation of a problem than no one here can possibly tell you the degree to which it exists.


That is a very valid point! I just don't know any orthopedics in my area that have ski knowledge

post #41 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpass View Post


That is a very valid point! I just don't know any orthopedics in my area that have ski knowledge

If you have any friends or aquaintence in the P.T. field, they'll generally know which docs can be helpful. I don't know any Physical therapists locally who aren't pretty committed skiers. smile.gif At the very least, have a boot fitter look at things while you research your local docs. The fitter certainly isn't a Dr., but he/she can tell you if they see anything really out of the norm that they haven't seen before. Chances are high that they have clients who see docs, etc... And he/she might have docs who are clients that can point you toward the right person. Get your affirmation from the right place, and you'll be fine. Get in the wrong place, and you know the story.
post #42 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpass View Post
 

http://skibootalignment.com/stance.html

 

Does anyone know of a qualified boot fitter / ski shop in or near Connecticut that knows about canting bindings and just as important know whether it's something I should do?

@Lpass, Catamount has a race program.  Aren't they near you? Some of their racers have to get their alignment done and their boots appropriately adjusted whenever they get new boots.  Look at their webpage below, call one of the numbers, and ask whoever answers who they send their racers to for bootfitting.  Get a bootfitter's name, not just the shop.  Call the bootfitter, ask for an appointment to have your alignment checked, and bring your boots.  Be prepared to spend money.  This is a very worthy thing to pay for, and maybe the most useful $$ you'll ever spend on skiing.


If your current boots do not fit properly, you'll get a recommendation to buy new boots.  The new stock won't yet be in; you may need to come in during the fall  when new boots arrive, or maybe they will have new old stock hanging around that anatomically fits your feet much better than your current boots.  

 

If the boots you have now fit fine, but just need adjustments, the bootfitter can simply work with what you've got.  You'll have to pay for each thing he does, but that might not be that much; it just depends.

 

If you buy new boots, you should know that any adjustments/tweaks done to compensate for your anatomy, aka your alignment, are built into the price of the boots.  That means, usually, that all tweaks are free for the first season.  This does not include custom footbeds though.  

 

Here you go:

http://www.catamountski.com/lessons-racing/racing/interclub.php

post #43 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

L, your shooting at boogy men in the dark UNTIL you actually have your alignment checked. If you need a medical consult, I'm sure there are orthopedic, podiatry, etc... docs in your area with ski knowledge that can help more than posting here looking for affirmation of a problem than no one here can possibly tell you the degree to which it exists.
ko

+1
post #44 of 53

The above is all good info, however a decision point is whether you want to work on your PT, before paying to get boots that are customized to who you are now. You are who you are, but you can definitely change yourself too.  

 

If you don't want to go the medical route, you can also go to a gym that has yoga/pilates type class instructors that can offer similar advice on how to straighten/align. Even the most basicYoga class can help work on alignment issues.  It may not be perfectly specialized to your needs, but you also might not need to have specialized training to just get started.  In a group fitness class, you can always bug the instructor for a little while before and after and they can give you a few tips.


Edited by raytseng - 7/11/16 at 4:46pm
post #45 of 53
I don't profess to know a lot or everything but I've never heard of pushing a skier into a fitness program to change alignment issues. First of all he doesn't even know what the alignment issues are. Second of all what exercises could you ever do to fix inside can't or outside can't problems. I still say should start with the alignment technician but I can always be schooled give it to me.
post #46 of 53

Not saying that yoga is guarenteed to fix his alignment issues.  But there's nothing wrong with trying it first to fix what you can fix.

 

It's a no lose situation.  You go to say a yoga class. There's a series of poses you have to work through and results are being able to do the move or not.  You either are able to do them or you don't.  Say you do a warrior 1 pose, and you fall over.   You go to 5 more classes.  Maybe now you aren't falling over as much.   

I don't think you can argue that this has made things worse, because being able to do a warrior1 has negatively affected his alignment.  

It's either the same or improved.  The goal is to achieve moves; it is not blindly trying to swing an irregular action to do the opposite.  But perhaps because he can do a warrior1, his muscles strengthen and his body changes a bit naturally plus he can do the new ability.   

 

Sure, if you're still falling over after 5 classes maybe you're reached the limits of your physiology and you're exactly the same.  However most people find they do yoga or pilates, especially from a zero basis, they will have gotten better, they don't just plateau and have zero gains at all unless they aren't trying or the instructor is just terrible.  

 

The gains definitely do have an effect and can help you straighten and change getting super customized boots molded into who you currently are right now.   Especially if you're a sloucher or twist or lean to 1 side.  Say you're doing vacuum boots, if you don't stand straight and lean to 1 sid, then you end up with misaligned boots just at those 5minutes that they do the molding.   That's a disservice to you to get better.


Edited by raytseng - 7/12/16 at 9:37pm
post #47 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpass View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveturner View Post

 
I think you  are missing one key point and may be focussing on the wrong part of your anatomy.  An additional stance issue is which way do your knees point when your feet face forward?  I think the best anatomical position is to have your feet facing forward with your knees flexing forward. Unfortunately when my feet face forward my knees flex inward unless I build up the inside edges of my insoles. Check your knee flex when you're feet are flat on the floor facing forward.  If the knees rotate inward Try putting a medium thickness magazine under the inside third of each foot and see how that impacts your knee flex. I ski Fischer boots and don't see much difference in the current Fischers and several of my older boots.


Hi Steve I was curious so i did what you suggested and took some pics. I found that when I stand in my normal stance and flex forward my knees are fine, but when I force my feet straight and flex forward, my knees turn in. I then put dvd cases underneath the inside third of my feet and noticed that when I flexed forward my knees did not turn in nearly as much.  What do you mean by 'build up the inside edges of my insoles?'




Mine do that because of the break, no issues.

Sometimes you just have to get used to the correct but initially uncomfortable movement.

In reality, get checked for fit and form. Secondly get used to the correct motion and form.
post #48 of 53
A wedge or "canting strip" that is thicker on one edge and thinner on the other can be placed under your bindings or inside your boot under your insoles. This seems to work well for aligning your knees when the issue is to correct a bow legged or knock kneed stance. My personal opinion it may be less effective in correcting alignment issues for those who are pigeon toed or duck footed.
post #49 of 53

EDIT:..  Ankles & lower leg look pretty medium-normal, just wider forefoot...not alot of bowlegged issue(s)..  Pedorthist/Bootguy for the footbeds = you will notice the difference.  Good footbeds will keep your knees tracking straight ahead...  Setting up a session for alignment assessment & footbeds before Labor Day gets one going on a positive platform for the new season.  Good mentions of some yoga exercises....when added to any exercise routine. 


Edited by HaveSkisWillClimb - 7/19/16 at 10:56am
post #50 of 53

Alignment.  Ankle alignment with orthotics, and leg alignment with canted boots if needed.

 

The original photo shows classic pronation.  The feet point outward while the ankles roll inward, the feet look flat, and if the feet are pointed straight ahead the knees flex inward.

 

A visit to a podiatrist, or certified pedorthist, or certified orthotic fitter, will give you the whole story and possible orthotics for everyday wear, but not skiing.  A highly qualified boot fitter will supply the skiing orthotic, posted, footbeds that correct the alignment of your feet & ankles.  I've had both rigid posted footbeds and moderately flexible posted footbeds in my ski boots to fix my pronation.  The moderately flexible ones are greatly superior, allowing the foot to have natural movement in the correct planes.

post #51 of 53
Sorry but I've never heard of anybody being pushed into working on themselves physically to change and Alignment problem. If you needed inside chance whatever exercise could you do to make that change. Again this is a new arena for me I'm into the alignment part so you know School me please
post #52 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post

Sorry but I've never heard of anybody being pushed into working on themselves physically to change and Alignment problem. If you needed inside chance whatever exercise could you do to make that change. Again this is a new arena for me I'm into the alignment part so you know School me please

We routinely work in conjunction with PT's, Podiatrists, Orthopedists, Rolfers, MAT etc. with some of our clients.

As an example, let's say that the abduction of the OP's feet is being caused by limited dorsiflexion. This is a very common compensation, as is medial tracking of the knees with the feet pointed straight ahead. The very first measurement we take on a new client is how much they abduct or adduct their feet. It is often your first clue to things that are occurring somewhere else.

Limited dorsiflexion creates fairly predictable problems in skiing and with ski boots and there are a few standard things you typically do to accommodate it. Increase zeppa ramp, decrease cuff angle, increase stiffness, decrease delta and so forth.

If the cause of the limitation is a tight calf or hamstring and not a structural impediment in the joint, then a simple stretching regimen will not only change the boot set up, but will pay dividends in many other aspects of life.

A tight IT band can cause a knee to track laterally, you can cant the boot to correct the problem it causes in skiing or you can stretch it and reduce the problems it causes all the time.

If the underlying cause of the lateral tracking is structural (tibial torsion) than soft tissue work is less likely to be successful. Others are welcome to disagree with this but it has been my experience.

The initial complaint in this case is that feet are abducted and if you point them straight ahead the knees track inwards. You could address the symptom by trying mount the bindings crooked (no thanks) and by applying varus wedging to change the tracking of the knees, as has already been suggested and may ultimately be appropriate or not.

If you can determine the cause of a problem and not merely the symptom, and address it at its source it can be far more effective.

jl
post #53 of 53
Thank you I agree with everything you said and of course your knowledge is much more in-depth than mine. But I would just say that I would start from an alignment position and then move into everything else and let the alignment Tech tell me what I need to work on and how. By the way where is your shop?
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