or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › EpicSki Community › Skiing News › The "Park City Effect": UT Records Best Skier Visits
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The "Park City Effect": UT Records Best Skier Visits - Page 2

post #31 of 55
Quote = fosphenytoin:
Do you take Friday and Monday as vacation days, leave on Thursday night and flight back on Monday night?

Historically that's what I did.  When I began going to the Iron Blosam Week as a guest I flew out Friday and came home Tuesday because the timeshare week started Saturday night.  There were also a couple of years when I went for the back end of the timeshare, flying out Wednesday and coming home Sunday.  Once I became a timeshare owner in 2009, I went for the entire week. From SoCal I drive to Utah if it's a whole week, especially since I'm usually hauling at least a case of wine.

 

Quote = fatbob:
even the unfittest Euro skier plans on skiing 6 days straight in a week's vacation.

This surprises me, since on bad weather days in the Alps it's hard to see. Plus so much terrain, including everything off-piste, won't be open.  I'll bet a lot of those days are ski a couple of hours, decide the weather isn't going to improve and then spend the rest of the day at a gourmet lunch or doing something else.

 

Quote = KingGrump:
Sustainability often is a relatively simple relationship between terrain, snow condition, skier ability, fitness, ego and equipment.

Absolutely. 4 days is about the limit that I could push hard every day on Alta/Snowbird type terrain, even with good conditions.  On the one week trips I usually need to dial it back a couple of days and cruise around more.  Now that I'm retired there's definitely less incentive to ski hard every day.  The main reflection of this is taking a drive day between areas on road trips.  While I was working I would be more likely to ski to mid-afternoon, then get on the road to the next place.

post #32 of 55

I have skied on departure days and it is not my preference.  At a hotel, you need to checkout by 11am.  Sometimes you can delay checkout, but not always.  So, I have to pack and leave bags at the front desk in the morning.  It's a bit of a hassle to deal with in addition to the ski gear in the morning.

 

During the day skiing, I am worried about traffic and when exactly to depart.  It adds stress to skiing that I do not enjoy.

 

Finally, it implies a late flight and late arrival at home.  Later flights are more prone to delays and cancellations.  The next morning and following week difficult (presuming I am doing this to get to work the following morning). Late afternoon or evening flights also mean leaving the resort during prime traffic...which I hate.

 

I prefer to have one last good long day of skiing with time at the bar afterward and leisurely dinner.  Then leave on a mid morning flight the next day.  I arrive home earlier and have time to unpack and do a few errands before the work week starts.

post #33 of 55
Quote:
During the day skiing, I am worried about traffic and when exactly to depart......Late afternoon or evening flights also mean leaving the resort during prime traffic...which I hate.

That may be true if you have to drive I-70 to Denver, but it's certainly not true in Salt Lake.

 

It can all depend on your mindset.  I viewed vacation days as a very valuable resource.  I was very resistant to wasting one on a ski trip and not ski.  Nearly all of my ski vacations when working were one week or less. That seemed to go better at work too.  Nobody seemed to care that much when I was gone one week or less.  It was the occasional 2+ week trip where more planning/notice was necessary.

post #34 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Crocker View Post

That may be true if you have to drive I-70 to Denver, but it's certainly not true in Salt Lake.

It can all depend on your mindset.  I viewed vacation days as a very valuable resource.  I was very resistant to wasting one on a ski trip and not ski.  Nearly all of my ski vacations when working were one week or less. That seemed to go better at work too.  Nobody seemed to care that much when I was gone one week or less.  It was the occasional 2+ week trip where more planning/notice was necessary.

I've seen it take two hours to just get down LCC to I-215.

That being said, I agree a 100% with everything else.
I take a ton of 3-4 day trips. I never blow a day traveling and I've never missed a flight, but I've been dam close.
post #35 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Crocker View Post
 

That may be true if you have to drive I-70 to Denver, but it's certainly not true in Salt Lake.

 

It can all depend on your mindset.

And it depends on the day. As long as you are not flying out of DEN on a Sunday or maybe a busy Saturday, you should be able to get most of a day skiing in at Beaver Creek, Vail or any Summit County, CO ski areas and catch a flight. I drove from Basalt to Breck on the Monday after the Super Bowl and skied 33.5K vertical, my 2nd highest day of the year. I had time to stop for a pint and light dinner at brewpub in Idaho Springs before driving towards airport and filling rental car with gas and returning it. For details, see http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12052&p=75594

 

On my long road trips in 2015 and 2016, I skied 18 and 13 days in a row, respectively, often including a lot of driving between skiing, some of it solo. As long as I stay healthy, I don't need days off as I get stronger and more confident with more days in a row although picking the wrong skis on my last day in 2016 led to a hard fall and slightly bruised ribs.

post #36 of 55

I always ski the last day to maximize my vacation time and also minimize lodging/rental car costs.  You have to watch the weather a little and leave in some extra time in case of delays but it works.  I've skied the same day as my flight in all regions CO/UT/MT/ID/CA/NV/NH/VT/ME/AB/Europe.

 

Sometimes I ski the first day too.  If I take the 6am flight I can be on the slopes in CO by 9am.

post #37 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Crocker View Post

This surprises me, since on bad weather days in the Alps it's hard to see. Plus so much terrain, including everything off-piste, won't be open.  I'll bet a lot of those days are ski a couple of hours, decide the weather isn't going to improve and then spend the rest of the day at a gourmet lunch or doing something else.

Yep vis isn't always great in the Alps but pass pricing and accommodation model tends to mean that most people are on 6 day passes. Plus IME areas are so big there's rarely all zones whited out at the same time. Not forgetting that most people don't consider off piste because culturally and skills wise it is a step apart. I reckon on about 1 stinky no fun whiteout day every 2 weeks if in a high alpine area but it's too late if you already have the ticket for that day. .
post #38 of 55

Out of 35 potential ski days in the Alps on 4 different trips, two days the weather was so severe I didn't ski at all.  Six more days it was bad enough to limit open terrain so I skied no more than half the day.  Given my much more extensive history at exposed mountains like Mammoth and Bachelor, a ~20% bad weather/restricted skiing rate for the Alps seems reasonable.   Since weather can persist over the short term, that means you can get skunked for a whole week, as Liz did on her first trip to the Alps in 2001.

 

Max consecutive ski days for me was 14 in B.C. in 2010, 9 of those being cat skiing.   I also skied 12 consecutive in Japan this January.  During both of those trips some of the days were light on vertical so I never got too tired.

 

More often, and certainly during my Iron Blosam week, I get tired enough after 3-4 days keeping up with Utah locals or my son's group that I need to have an easy day skiing a higher proportion of groomers and/or with people skiing a more moderate pace.

 

Every once in a while I'll overdo it and need to take at least half a day off.


Edited by Tony Crocker - 7/23/16 at 1:43pm
post #39 of 55
Skunked for a week is really unlucky in Europe. I tend to go to Val Thorens or Cervinia late in the season and I've definitely been whited out both places even in April/May. Even if you are skunked there is usually somewhere with tree lined skiing available within a bus ride although those places obviously get busy e.g. Les Houches when the Chamonix Valley gets shut down by the Fohn.
post #40 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Crocker View Post
 

+1 When I was working the plan once every season was:

4-day weekend, 2 vacation days used, evening flights to/from SLC, 4 bell-to-bell ski days.  This is a piece of cake from any West Coast airport.  I was exhausted when I got home but I was also in bed before midnight.   The easterners can do this too, but they have to suck it up for a redeye on the way home.


I've done this a few times with my son, but from the East Coast we only get three days skiing. For MLK weekend he usually has school half a day Friday and off Monday. We blow iff Friday since they never do anything on half days and leave Florida Thursday afternoon/evening after school. Usually get to SLC around 11pm and get to hotel an hour later, once at Brighton and twice PC. Ski Friday, Saturday and Sunday and take an early morning flight on Monday.

post #41 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbostedo View Post
 

I guess I'm just not quite enough of a skiing enthusiast to take a trip where I come back completely tired out. I view ski vacations at least in part as just that - vacations. So getting some down time matters to me too. More power to everyone that goes harder at it - sounds like you're getting everything you can, which is great. I don't know that I'll ever be willing to do that.

 

I think Epicski is generally a poor representation of your average ski tourist.  Epicski is comprised of people who are skiers first, and are taking a trip to ski.  A lot of ski tourists, probably a heavy majority, are people who are vacationers first and are taking a trip to vacation which happens involves some skiing.

 

They're typically traveling with kids and are looking to come home relaxed and refreshed.  A nice dinner and a properly functioning hot tub are more important than perfect ski weather/conditions, and they're not really looking for the added stress of getting the whole family to get all cleaned up and gathering up all of their stuff in time to stressfully rush to the airport just in time for a late night flight that might have them up late and going back to work the next day on little sleep.

post #42 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcize View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbostedo View Post
 

I guess I'm just not quite enough of a skiing enthusiast to take a trip where I come back completely tired out. I view ski vacations at least in part as just that - vacations. So getting some down time matters to me too. More power to everyone that goes harder at it - sounds like you're getting everything you can, which is great. I don't know that I'll ever be willing to do that.

 

I think Epicski is generally a poor representation of your average ski tourist.  Epicski is comprised of people who are skiers first, and are taking a trip to ski.  A lot of ski tourists, probably a heavy majority, are people who are vacationers first and are taking a trip to vacation which happens involves some skiing.

 

They're typically traveling with kids and are looking to come home relaxed and refreshed.  A nice dinner and a properly functioning hot tub are more important than perfect ski weather/conditions, and they're not really looking for the added stress of getting the whole family to get all cleaned up and gathering up all of their stuff in time to stressfully rush to the airport just in time for a late night flight that might have them up late and going back to work the next day on little sleep.


While I agree that those who post regularly on EpicSki are not average ski tourist, at any given time there are far more lurkers than active members.  While some are parents, I doubt that's a majority of the lurkers.

 

I was an adult intermediate who only took a ski vacation every 2-3 years for much longer than I've been a retired ski nut skiing 20+ days out west each season.  Certainly would not have posted on a ski forum but would probably have lurked a lot if the opportunity had existed back then.

 

I've done ski days that ended with travel, either driving 4+ hours or flying.  Definitely not my first choice.  However, I've had trips where my daughter skied with friends before we headed to the airport while I relaxed at the lodge.

post #43 of 55

I think most of us have made clear our personal perspectives and allowed for those whose circumstances are different.  The 4-day trips from points east to Denver/SLC do require an ironman mentality if you're going to ski full days, take a redeye flight home and go to work the next morning.  I'm just pointing out that from West Coast cities it's not that big a deal as you will get home after a short flight in time for a decent night's sleep before you have to go to work/school. And yes, I had at least one kid with me on those 4-day trips to the Iron Blosam from 1996-2008.   I'm sure it helped that once we were in Utah we were staying on the mountain.   But I've done it a few times based in SLC with a rental car too.

post #44 of 55
On our four day trips to SLC we always ski on the last day and fly out in the evening. The flight back to Phoenix usually leaves at 9:30 pm. We book the hotel for that night so we can keep our gear there, come back to the hotel after skiing to shower, change and pack. Even though we don't sleep there, it is well worth the extra cost to us. Having the hotel room available in the evening seems to make that last day feel like a full vacation day rather than a rush to get home. Much better than changing in the parking lot and driving straight to the airport.
post #45 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Crocker View Post
 

I think most of us have made clear our personal perspectives and allowed for those whose circumstances are different.  The 4-day trips from points east to Denver/SLC do require an ironman mentality if you're going to ski full days, take a redeye flight home and go to work the next morning.  I'm just pointing out that from West Coast cities it's not that big a deal as you will get home after a short flight in time for a decent night's sleep before you have to go to work/school. And yes, I had at least one kid with me on those 4-day trips to the Iron Blosam from 1996-2008.   I'm sure it helped that once we were in Utah we were staying on the mountain.   But I've done it a few times based in SLC with a rental car too.

Getting home to a western city is easier but going east doesn't have to require a red eye.  Take Colorado as an example.  Ski a full weekday at Vail till 4pm, at airport by 6 for 8pm flight, land in any direct central time zone city by 11, home about midnight.  If you want to be home earlier, you can always ski a nearly full day, maybe eating lunch in car and ski till 2, home by 10ish.  Or ski Loveland the last day, ski till 2 and home by 9ish. 

 

Utah ski areas are closer to a smaller airport which gets you home at the same time as CO once extra flight time is factored in.  Smaller town airports are hit or miss.  If there is a direct, you get home just as fast or faster.  If not, add about 90 min for connection.

 

Eastern time zone cities are harder due to longer flights and that additional timezone but even those you could ski loveland till 2 and by home by midnight.

post #46 of 55

Last couple time coming out of Vail to DIA on a Sunday afternoon took 4+ hours one way. Add in the usual cluster with TSA. It would be safe to say more like a 6 hour lead time.     

post #47 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanvg View Post

Getting home to a western city is easier but going east doesn't have to require a red eye.  Take Colorado as an example.  Ski a full weekday at Vail till 4pm, at airport by 6 for 8pm flight, land in any direct central time zone city by 11, home about midnight.  If you want to be home earlier, you can always ski a nearly full day, maybe eating lunch in car and ski till 2, home by 10ish.  Or ski Loveland the last day, ski till 2 and home by 9ish. 

Utah ski areas are closer to a smaller airport which gets you home at the same time as CO once extra flight time is factored in.  Smaller town airports are hit or miss.  If there is a direct, you get home just as fast or faster.  If not, add about 90 min for connection.

Eastern time zone cities are harder due to longer flights and that additional timezone but even those you could ski loveland till 2 and by home by midnight.

Just to reiterate, it is not the average that causes us look at SLC over DEN, but the variance.
post #48 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanvg View Post


Utah ski areas are closer to a smaller airport which gets you home at the same time as CO once extra flight time is factored in.  Smaller town airports are hit or miss.  If there is a direct, you get home just as fast or faster.  If not, add about 90 min for connection.

Salt Lake City airport isn't O'Hare or JFK, but it's not exactly a single engine pit stop. In my experience I've never found small town airports to be hit or miss either. In fact they are usually easier to park at, get rentals, quicker to navigate, have shorter security lines and faster baggage claim. I have flown in and out of SLC and Reno several times in the last decade and have zero complaints. My flights are direct, so my view of the overall trip experience may change if I had to make connections. A larger hub may also have more flight choices.

Does anyone know if there is a statistic that compares the reliability of smaller airports versus larger ones? I always seem to get delayed flying BA to and from Heathrow but never have issues flying to Salt Lake for the weekend.
post #49 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryheat View Post


Just to reiterate, it is not the average that causes us look at SLC over DEN, but the variance.


i70 in CO is a pain in the butt and I like SLC skiing too.  However, there are ways to avoid the variance.  If you drive on weekdays it's only an issue if it's snowing hard and even then, I typically only leave an hour earlier than planned.  In practice, hard snow messes you up everywhere (I waited nearly 4 hours to get to SLC from Alta one day for example)

post #50 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post


Salt Lake City airport isn't O'Hare or JFK, but it's not exactly a single engine pit stop. In my experience I've never found small town airports to be hit or miss either. In fact they are usually easier to park at, get rentals, quicker to navigate, have shorter security lines and faster baggage claim. I have flown in and out of SLC and Reno several times in the last decade and have zero complaints. My flights are direct, so my view of the overall trip experience may change if I had to make connections. A larger hub may also have more flight choices.

Does anyone know if there is a statistic that compares the reliability of smaller airports versus larger ones? I always seem to get delayed flying BA to and from Heathrow but never have issues flying to Salt Lake for the weekend.


I should have had a new paragraph there.  What I meant was: SLC is smaller that DIA but still pretty big which is a big plus.  Regional airports (Aspen, Sun Valley, etc.) are hit or miss because they often do not have direct flights to many places.

post #51 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanvg View Post


I should have had a new paragraph there.  What I meant was: SLC is smaller that DIA but still pretty big which is a big plus.  Regional airports are hit or miss because they often do not have direct flights to many places.

I'd counter that weekend warrioes who are looking to ski bell to bell are highly likely to be flying Sunday night....not during the week as its likely burning PTO days.

So yes, weekdays mitigates risk. But the population were talking about probably can't do that mitigation technique
post #52 of 55
My last day this year was May 2nd.
Skied Loveland till 2.
Drove to DEN, fueled and returned rental.
Arrived at C gates 3:50 and we took our time.

In Aspen, I leave my place at 3:30, for a 4:30 direct to ORD.

SLC has some advantages for west coasters. Much less so, for those east of the front range.
DEN has 5X the directs from Chicago and they are typically much less expensive.
Aspen - ORD, has up to 7/day prime time.
post #53 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryheat View Post


I'd counter that weekend warrioes who are looking to ski bell to bell are highly likely to be flying Sunday night....not during the week as its likely burning PTO days.

So yes, weekdays mitigates risk. But the population were talking about probably can't do that mitigation technique

I don't think many people fly to Denver (or any ski town) to only stay 2 nights but yes, if you have to leave on a Sunday, that's adds traffic.  In general, you have leave an hour early if it's clear weather and if it's really bad weather, you might have to skip that last ski day.  (I've never had to skip a day but it occasionally happens)

post #54 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanvg View Post
 

I don't think many people fly to Denver (or any ski town) to only stay 2 nights but yes, if you have to leave on a Sunday, that's adds traffic.  In general, you have leave an hour early if it's clear weather and if it's really bad weather, you might have to skip that last ski day.  (I've never had to skip a day but it occasionally happens)


+1  My trips were generally 4 days, generally avoiding Sunday as the return day.  It's not trying to use zero vacation days, it's getting max efficiency out of the ones you have.

 

Quote= SHREDHEAD:
Aspen - ORD, has up to 7/day prime time.

Chris Steiner has analyzed direct flights into ski town airports and Aspen is far away #1 for that.

https://zrankings.com/articles/ski-resorts/top-5-ski-town-airports.html

He is also based in Chicago.

 

No doubt living on the West Coast has reinforced my bias for SLC.  But most of that comes from Alta/Snowbird's snow and terrain quality.

post #55 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanvg View Post

 

Eastern time zone cities are harder due to longer flights and that additional timezone but even those you could ski loveland till 2 and by home by midnight.

 

More like be home by 2am ("midnight" of Colorado!) 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Skiing News
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › EpicSki Community › Skiing News › The "Park City Effect": UT Records Best Skier Visits