EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Advice for Crud/Tracked Snow Ski
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Advice for Crud/Tracked Snow Ski - Page 2

post #31 of 55
All discontinued skis at this point in time...
post #32 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnarvin View Post

 

I have considered the Automatics in 109 as well but without a layer of titanal I am a little nervous about them. I looked at the Supernatural 108s extensively and they were actually in my top 2 of choices for a while but the reviews are just too mixed on them for me to pull the trigger on them.

 

 

after reading your initial post the Supernatural 108 was the first ski to come to mind for what you are looking for. had a chance to ride the 2017's at Alta this year  and they really handled choppy conditions great. very stable feeling, yet light and easy to throw around. Line makes quality fun skis - id be confident leaving the 88's at home and strictly use these on any western trips. really hold a nice edge for their width too

post #33 of 55
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the advice.  I was strongly considering the Line SN108 for a long time, but it seems like the reviews are very mixed and that doesn't give me a lot of confidence for a blind buy.  Obviously I would like to avoid a blind buy, but the reality of living in the SE is that when I ski around home, none of the ski hills/mountains have wide skis to demo.  

 

When I do go out West, I would prefer to avoid the hassle of demoing skis and just enjoy my time.  For example, when I was just at Whistler a couple months ago, it was VERY difficult to find places that demoed the skis I was interested in.  I went into that trip specifically wanting to find pairs of BMX105HP, Blizzard Cochise, and Line SN108 to demo.  However, most of the ski rental places were affiliated with WB and did not carry any of the skis I was interested in (Soul7 was ubiquitous as their mid-fat).  After walking around the village I found a place that had BMX105 (non-HP) to demo, but no 105HP and the BMX105s were not in the correct length.  I did not find a place that Blizzard Cochise or Line SN108s to demo, but maybe I just wasn't looking in the right place. 

 

After hearing all the good comments about the Volkl 100Eight, I am now strongly considering it. I am OK with it not having metal as all of the reviews praise it's crud performance and stability despite the lack of metal.  The one thing that concerns me most is that the ski is fully rockered.  I really did not like any of the skis in the past that I have tried that were full rocker.  It seems that all of the fully rockered skis I have tried had a loose and greasy feel and did not want to track very well unless they were on edge.  Obviously, most of the time I will be using some sort of edging, but there are times that running bases flat is required (straight lines, etc.) and I want to be able to trust the ski.  Can anyone weigh in on the Volkl 100Eights ability to track well bases flat?  It sounds like the skis carve well from all of the reviews.

 

I wish there would be some more comprehensive reviews of the Soul7HD as well...And the 16/17 ON3P Wrenegade 108 looks good too...This is waaaaay too difficult of a decision!

post #34 of 55
I do recall the first time I got on a pair of original K2 FOURS from the old, straight skis (early 90s) finding them disconcertingly squirrelly on straight runs. I've gotten used to the feeling and don't notice anymore. I can't directly address "loose and greasy", as each individual will have a different descriptive term for any given attribute a ski may or may not exhibit. I can say that my 100Eights don't feel unstable or unusual in any way when running straight. YMMV. As always, nothing beats a demo.
post #35 of 55

I demoed the Volkl 100eights and Volkl Katanas 112 on successive weekends and preferred the Katana - and bought last year's (black) model for half price instead of this year's (15/16), otherwise identical mostly white model.  It floats well in powder, is great for trees and tight spaces, and while quick, has for me an even better stable feel than the 100eights.  Both have the V-Werks construction that makes them very light but without the usual instability of a light ski.  Both are good on edge and in crud.  (I only skied the 100eight in ~3" of fresh, so don't know how it does in powder.)

 

The new Katana is not quite the super crud buster that the old, metal Katana was.   That ski was the best at that I've known of.   But the old Katana didn't float.  It wasn't a good powder ski.   The new one is, a great crud/powder ski combined (at least for a lighter weight skier like me; 150 lbs; 5'10").   And it's also good on groomers, fast or slow, as is the 100eight.   (Blistergear has a great review of the Katana by an ~190 lb. skier, that fits my own experience.  http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2014-2015-volkl-v-werks-katana)

 

Regarding the lack of camber with the full rocker in both these skis (the new Katana and the 100eight),  I usually have felt the shifty, greasy feel of such skis, but not with the 100eight or Katana (or the newer Volkl "no camber" 181 RTM model, for that matter).   I don't have enough time on the 100eight to say for sure, but with the Katana I don't notice a slippery feel at all.   I do notice a bit less pop to use in turns going slow on beginner slopes, because of the lack of camber for rebound.   So I had to take that into account.  But in all other conditions, the ski has plenty of pop and rebound.

I expect the 100eight to be similar, except perhaps even better this way since it's narrower.     


Edited by ski otter - 5/25/16 at 5:16pm
post #36 of 55
Metal katana not good in powder?
Really?

That's my favorite powder, crud ski.
post #37 of 55
By the way, second on the vwerks katana, great ski, holds a great edge, even though it's slightly rockered
post #38 of 55
Thread Starter 

I have only heard good things about the Volkl V Werks Katana too...If I can get a good deal then I would definitely consider it.  There are some good deals on 100Eights right now that are very tempting, as well. It will be torture to get new skis and have to wait forever to use them also haha.


This thread has only added more skis to my possibilities list! Not that it's a bad thing. I love getting the input from real skiers rather than from only biased magazines or from professional ski testers.

post #39 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post

Metal katana not good in powder?
Really?

That's my favorite powder, crud ski.

Sorry.  Apologies.  Again, folks have to demo for themselves.  I borrowed a friend's pair for a few days, and tried it in crud and then deep.   In crud and variable it was the best.  

 

In powder, I guess different people like different things.   The new Enforcer 100, for example, does very, very well in powder, but down in it, not with so much float.   To me, the old Katana charges well there, especially when things get broken up.  But to me it didn't float well, though, just sorta powered through stuff, easily.   I like float, but I guess that's subjective and relative.   The newer Katana has both, to me, to a greater degree with the powder, as I recall.  And it was more manueverable, quicker - and easier for me, a lighter weight guy, to handle.  But I didn't ski the skis side by side to be sure - my experiences were a couple of years apart.   And the V-Werks Katana is the ski I've spent a lot of time on.   

post #40 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnarvin View Post
 

Thanks for the advice.  I was strongly considering the Line SN108 for a long time, but it seems like the reviews are very mixed and that doesn't give me a lot of confidence for a blind buy.  Obviously I would like to avoid a blind buy, but the reality of living in the SE is that when I ski around home, none of the ski hills/mountains have wide skis to demo.  

 

When I do go out West, I would prefer to avoid the hassle of demoing skis and just enjoy my time.  For example, when I was just at Whistler a couple months ago, it was VERY difficult to find places that demoed the skis I was interested in.  I went into that trip specifically wanting to find pairs of BMX105HP, Blizzard Cochise, and Line SN108 to demo.  However, most of the ski rental places were affiliated with WB and did not carry any of the skis I was interested in (Soul7 was ubiquitous as their mid-fat).  After walking around the village I found a place that had BMX105 (non-HP) to demo, but no 105HP and the BMX105s were not in the correct length.  I did not find a place that Blizzard Cochise or Line SN108s to demo, but maybe I just wasn't looking in the right place. 

 

After hearing all the good comments about the Volkl 100Eight, I am now strongly considering it. I am OK with it not having metal as all of the reviews praise it's crud performance and stability despite the lack of metal.  The one thing that concerns me most is that the ski is fully rockered.  I really did not like any of the skis in the past that I have tried that were full rocker.  It seems that all of the fully rockered skis I have tried had a loose and greasy feel and did not want to track very well unless they were on edge.  Obviously, most of the time I will be using some sort of edging, but there are times that running bases flat is required (straight lines, etc.) and I want to be able to trust the ski.  Can anyone weigh in on the Volkl 100Eights ability to track well bases flat?  It sounds like the skis carve well from all of the reviews.

 

I wish there would be some more comprehensive reviews of the Soul7HD as well...And the 16/17 ON3P Wrenegade 108 looks good too...This is waaaaay too difficult of a decision!

 

Fanatyko in Whistler has most, if not all of those.

post #41 of 55
Thread Starter 

Sorry to revive this thread, but I am still in the market for a ski like I was talking about when I started the thread.  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to try ANY of the skis I originally mentioned in this thread.  I had pretty much narrowed things down to the ON3P Wrenegade 108, Rossi Soul 7 HD, Blizzard Cochise, and Volkl 100Eight.  

 

However, this past weekend at Snowshoe, WV they had a demo weekend with a lot of free demos, though none of the skis mentioned above.  I had been somewhat interested in the Nordica Enforcer 100s in the past so I decided to give those a try on a whim.  The conditions were typical East Coast mixed conditions of spots of ice and spots of piled up crud. I really wasn't having a very good day skiing on my Experience 88s.  I ended up really liking the Enforcer 100s in 185cm.  They seemed to somehow have better edge grip on the icy spots than my E88s.  I also had been getting thrown around/bucked a bit by the crud piles when I was on my E88s, but the Enforcers made short work of the crud.  I must say I was really impressed with the Enforcers; both with their edge grip and stability.  They gave me confidence to open things up a bit and just blast through crud. They also were surprisingly maneuverable.

 

I would just buy the Enforcers, but I am wondering if they are a bit too narrow for the original purpose I was intending to buy new skis for.  Of the skis mentioned in this thread, which of them skis the most similar to the Enforcers?

 

Thanks

post #42 of 55
Buy the Enforcer. If the Enforcer does what you want it to, in the conditions you want it for, what else are you missing?

Unless you plan to be someplace where you really need a dedicated powder ski, or a powder ski that skis crud, or a crud ski that skis deep powder.
post #43 of 55
Thread Starter 

I am looking for a ski for taking out West to Whistler/Alta/etc. that will work well busting crud off piste and also will work well dealing with tracked out powder.  Think Whistler Bowl, steeps off of Harmony Ridge, High Rustler at Alta, etc. That is the reason that I am questioning whether 100mm will be wide enough.  

post #44 of 55

Apologies, but none of the skis you now list is like the Enforcer, really, as near as I can tell.  

 

My guess is the Line SN 108 would have been the closest: both skis people describe as "smooth" and versatile.  Watching folks on the 108 and hearing them praise it, it's something like the Enforcer, seemingly.  ( I just got finished this past week skiing with two store rep people who were trying the 108 for a few runs in 2-3 inches of fresh on corduroy, and as spots got skied off or mounded/crudded up.)  

 

Also, reviews and folks describe the SN 108's main weakness as lack of float.   Apparently, it's not really a powder ski, but a good crud ski and a smooth, versatile ski, yes.   A really good, versatile cruiser, all mountain; an easy to handle ski I was told - especially compared to the Cochise, I would guess.  But I haven't been on the SN 108s myself, so I can't really say for sure, just close second hand.   And if the crud gets really rough, I don't know how the SN 108 - or the Enforcer, for that matter - will behave.   As you probably know, Blistergear likes it a lot, likes both a lot.   

 

Blistergear Magazine for 16/17, which I recently received, has come out with a short summary review of the Volkl 100eight, and they place it in printed comparison charts with other comparable skis.  (I think this magazine has to be ordered online, at their website.)  But I haven't been able to find these comparison charts on their website, nor have I found a review of the Volkl 100eight there, as yet.  (Apparently, Blister reserves some material exclusively for their magazine.)  

 

Surprising to me, the Volkl 100eight is fairly low down the Blister mag list of how well comparable skis handle crud (although, as I recall, they did like it fairly well otherwise, not sure).   The Enforcer does much better, highly rated, albeit in a narrower ski category - as I recall.

(I can't remember where they rank the SN 108 on their crud charts, sorry. But I think it's fairly high.  Will check again and let you know if I'm substantially wrong on any of this.  Note: Blister doesn't rank the SN 108 on its crud charts in the "all mountain chargers" category they placed it in.  But they do describe it as handling crud well in their short review of the ski in the mag.)

 

Meanwhile, the Katana is also near the top; along with the Cochise, as I recall right now also.    (I don't have the mag with me.)  

 

The Cochise, to me, doesn't seem to work optimally for people with lighter weight like me, but at your weight, and with a crud specialty in mind, it should work well. (Note: I'm describing the older Cochise here; haven't been on the newer one.)

 

The newer Wrenegade 108 might work too for you, just don't know.  [The old Wrenegade 112, which I demoed, has a reputation as being good at crud charging.   But the new, narrower one, is a completely different ski. ]  

 

Sorry I can't be of more help.   Decisions, decisions.

 

(Note: Corrections in bold.)  


Edited by ski otter - 12/8/16 at 6:49pm
post #45 of 55

P.S. I went home and looked at the Blistergear mag again.   Also my notes on the Wrenegade.   

 

So, apologies and ...

 

Corrections and clarifications:  I demoed last year's Wrenegade 112, not this year's 108,  They are as different as night from day, apparently.  Although still an "all mountain charger," this year's Wrenegade 108 is the least demanding on the Blistergear "charger" list, unlike the old, burly 112.  And the new version seems to be better in powder, and more playful.  It's probably not as rock solid stable as the 112, though it's still a charger.   I'll make corrections above.

 

Also, the Cochise is a different ski for this year, so I have no clue if it will work for you or not. It was the old one I'd skied.   According to Blister, this year's version is more "locked in on edge" but harsher, and thus a bit more frontside oriented, less loose feeling and forgiving.   But "the two versions do overlap a good bit," Blister says.   Again, sorry for the mix up.   

 

I can confirm that while they rank the Volkl 100eight fairly low as a crud ski, they rank it near the top in deep snow for a "more forgiving all mountain" ski.   (They rank the Enforcer the reverse, at the top in crud/variable, lower in powder.   But I skied the Enforcer in 30" of fresh, and it killed both powder and the resort chop that followed.  But it was "down in" the snow, not floating up higher.)

 

Finally, the Line Supernatural 108 is good in crud, they write; which confirms what i saw happening with my two ski store rep friends demoing that ski. 


Edited by ski otter - 12/8/16 at 6:53pm
post #46 of 55
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the reply and the advice!  I am tempted to just buy the Enforcer 100s since I actually skied them and really really liked them.  I guess if I buy them and take them to Alta and Whistler and still feel I need something wider then I can just start looking for something wider and hopefully be able to demo.

post #47 of 55
Look, if you find a ski you really like, get it. Frankly, all these places you mention will have soft chop and wet crud and forming bumps over ice far more often than the deep pow you imagine. If it's thigh deep, go rent a 120 for the day...
post #48 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Look, if you find a ski you really like, get it. Frankly, all these places you mention will have soft chop and wet crud and forming bumps over ice far more often than the deep pow you imagine. If it's thigh deep, go rent a 120 for the day...
Good advice. If you're buying a ski to ski most of the time, then buy a ski that suits the conditions you find most of the time. Even if you ski off piste most of the time, you're much more likely to find chop, crud, and bumps than knee deep untracked.
post #49 of 55
If you are travelling to Whistler, you can demo Volkl skis for free on top of the hill
post #50 of 55

I have 2 of the skis mentioned in this thread.

 

I'll put a vote in for the Collective 105.  It seems to have a rep as a charging ski, but as far as I can tell, it is dead easy to ski in most conditions.  And fun.

I ski the women's version, which from everything I can tell is the same with a girly top sheet.  Easy turning, holds up to speed, fun on groomers, plenty of float, pivots or carves.  My wife is on the actual collective 105.  A very good tele skier, this is her first alpine rig.  Put's it up on edge with AT boots, no problem.  skis them in a length a bit long for her, and has no problems in any conditions.

 

I'll put a vote against the the E100. It is a demanding ski.  It likes speed, and to be on edge.  It is very judgmental, and punishes me when I am lazy.  It is really good in crud and on hard pack.  Skied it in the east only, and only last year, so only a few powder runs.   Certainly not as versatile as the collective 105, which is fun slow or fast, carve or pivot.  

post #51 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by HHTELE View Post
 

I have 2 of the skis mentioned in this thread.

 

I'll put a vote in for the Collective 105.  It seems to have a rep as a charging ski, but as far as I can tell, it is dead easy to ski in most conditions.  And fun.

I ski the women's version, which from everything I can tell is the same with a girly top sheet.  Easy turning, holds up to speed, fun on groomers, plenty of float, pivots or carves.  My wife is on the actual collective 105.  A very good tele skier, this is her first alpine rig.  Put's it up on edge with AT boots, no problem.  skis them in a length a bit long for her, and has no problems in any conditions.

 

I'll put a vote against the the E100. It is a demanding ski.  It likes speed, and to be on edge.  It is very judgmental, and punishes me when I am lazy.  It is really good in crud and on hard pack.  Skied it in the east only, and only last year, so only a few powder runs.   Certainly not as versatile as the collective 105, which is fun slow or fast, carve or pivot.  

This sounds like a description of the Rossi Experience 100 rather than the Nordica Enforcer 100, for me.  

 

But the Head Collective 105 seems like a great choice I'd love to demo.    

post #52 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleSkiNut View Post

If you are travelling to Whistler, you can demo Volkl skis for free on top of the hill

 

It's not free anymore. It's only $20 to try whatever, but free ended a year or two ago. They also only had Kendo's last week. Skied 'em. Underwhelmed.

post #53 of 55
Thread Starter 

Thanks for all the additional info!  I hadn't really considered the Collective 105.  I will have to look into those.

post #54 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post
 

 

It's not free anymore. It's only $20 to try whatever, but free ended a year or two ago. They also only had Kendo's last week. Skied 'em. Underwhelmed.

Oh Bastards...that's sad, that program used to be great ...and they always had a good selection. I guess since they have the new fancy demo in the village (pay a bit extra and you can switch skis all day long)  they stopped the awesome freebee program. I havent demo'd in awhile....like what I have see no need to change :)

post #55 of 55

I was also looking for a good 100ish ski for those couple runs of pow and then resort chop and crud.  I settled on the Blizzard Bonafide and have never looked back.  For me - these are great for those conditions.  Only break out my Patrons for cat skiing or really big powder days.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Advice for Crud/Tracked Snow Ski