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Help me replace my E84's

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 

I know intermediate skis are not the most glamorous of topics, but I'm looking for an all-mountain ski to replace my Rossignol Experience 84's. Maybe you guys can help.

 

6'1" 180lbs these days. Ski the Rockies. Been skiing regularly for a few years now and very frustrated with my progress. I get plenty of days but I'm stuck in perpetual intermediacy.  When I first started I knew nothing about gear and bought a lot of wrong skis, too big, too wide, too stiff, not knowing better.

 

I've taken quite a few lessons (most of my ski budget goes towards them) and outside of technique, most of my instructors advised me to get off of these 180cm+ stiff fully rockered skis (a volkl at the time) and onto a more traditional, shorter ski. Something with mostly camber, a little tip rocker and medium flex would help me learn to bend the ski and do drills better. The more I learned about gear the more it made sense and the 84's helped a lot. I learned to carve on them which was a huge step forward (although I'm still not great at it).

 

Beginner skis I crush, and most demo skis I've tried are too stiff and expert-oriented. But I've found through demo days I like a more even progressive flex than the E84's which are much more on-off, and binary. Also looking for something with less than the 30% rocker that the rossis have.

 

Any recommendations for a true intermediate level ski that is smooth, easy going, confidence building, can carve, smear, does moguls and just is all around a well rounded ski? Not looking for that nth degree of performance here or anything. I know my issues stem mostly from me, but I just want to become a better skier and not worry about what's under my feet.

 

Thanks

post #2 of 27

I would recommend the Fischer Motive 86 TI. Dimension-wise they're much like the Rossis (although slightly larger radius), but the construction will definately help you to grow confidence and improve on all aspects of your technique. They have a much higher max than the Rossis, but anyone level 6 or up can ski them without any problem. 

 

They will carve real nicely, but they are a bit more stable than the Rossis, mostly due to the metal (in stead of the Rosii E84's carbon, which doesn;t help the edge hold or stability at speed). 

 

Here's an extensive review by Blister Gear: http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2014-2015-fischer-motive-86-ti

And here's my own review of them: http://www.yellowgentian.com/ski-reviews/all-mountain/fischer-motive-86

post #3 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheizz View Post

I would recommend the Fischer Motive 86 TI. Dimension-wise they're much like the Rossis (although slightly larger radius), but the construction will definately help you to grow confidence and improve on all aspects of your technique. They have a much higher max than the Rossis, but anyone level 6 or up can ski them without any problem. 

They will carve real nicely, but they are a bit more stable than the Rossis, mostly due to the metal (in stead of the Rosii E84's carbon, which doesn;t help the edge hold or stability at speed). 

Here's an extensive review by Blister Gear: http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2014-2015-fischer-motive-86-ti
And here's my own review of them: http://www.yellowgentian.com/ski-reviews/all-mountain/fischer-motive-86

I've found that Ellsworth's pov and taste is very close to my own. That's why I'm a [happy] owner of the x-drives 😀
post #4 of 27

X-Drive 8.8? That's a pretty stout, demanding ski. Very stable, but not the "true intermediate level ski that is smooth, easy going, confidence building, can carve, smear, does moguls and just is all around a well rounded ski" the OP is looking for. Just my 2 cents.

post #5 of 27
Yeah, the 8.8 -- wasn't really reccomending it to the OP and I'm not debating that the Motive most likely is a better choice (haven't skied it, so what do I know), more commenting on Ellsworth and his reviews (great inmo.)
But when you mention it, yes the x-drives are stout and not the most forgiving in class, but I do think they have an exeggerated and undeserved reputation as a "for advanced chargers only". They're fairly easy to ski and skid and inmo, very confidence building for an upper intermediate -- as long as you have some body mass. You get a Jack of all trades that can hold up in high speeds like no other. And it does outshine the competion in sh*t f*ck. Really fast in a course too (race like edge hold, as mentioned by Blister).
Edited by Karlsson - 5/6/16 at 2:26pm
post #6 of 27
Like a broken record, monster 83 or 88, MX 89. RTM 84 or 86.
post #7 of 27
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the replies! The Fischer suggestion sounds pretty good. Been reading reviews. I don't see many Fischers and can't recall any local shops selling them, but I'm not adverse to buying online. Looks like I can pick up a pair for pretty cheap too which is great on the wallet.

 

As for the Head monster series, isn't that an expert oriented ski? Same with the MX series and the RTM? I have no doubt they all ski well, but are they beyond what I am looking for? I did ski some RTMs before and they were pretty stiff and full rocker which is what I was advised to avoid.

 

Now however I did demo the Head Supershape ski and really liked the way it turned and how smooth it felt. The blue one, magnum I think. But it was pretty stiff. Is there a friendlier supershape ski, or how about the head instinct? Does it ski similarly to the monster or supershape but maybe is friendlier and easier to ski at slower speeds?

 

Anyone ski the head instinct power or strong (which having a foam core would make it softer and more intermediate I assume). If they ski similarly to the other Heads but friendlier it could be a real winner too.

 

I really like that "mid-fat" mid-80's width, but I could go narrower if I had to. It seems most intermediate skis are more targeted under 80mm.

Any other suggestions are welcome. I'd like to have a solid two or three suggestions to make a choice from.

 

Thanks again

post #8 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich View Post
 

 

As for the Head monster series, isn't that an expert oriented ski? Same with the MX series and the RTM? I have no doubt they all ski well, but are they beyond what I am looking for? I did ski some RTMs before and they were pretty stiff and full rocker which is what I was advised to avoid.

 

Thanks again

 

 

Chose the right length, and you'll be fine... probably 177/178 range for all of the above for your size and weight.

post #9 of 27

Well, the labels marketing departments use to determine the level of skier the ski is intended for ('expert ski', 'inermediate ski' etc.) is often based on the max of the ski. But that doesn't mean that an (advanced) intermediate skier cannot ski on them. If anything, in recent years, the skier level range of skis has been extended greatly. 

 

I think you should aim for a smooth ski that doesn't punish you. But I would not go for an 'intermediate' ski. You will outgrow them very soon, and you won't progress as rapidly as you could. 

post #10 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post
 

 

 

Chose the right length, and you'll be fine... probably 177/178 range for all of the above for your size and weight.

 

Is 170 too short as long as it doesn't have too much rocker? Any big downsides to skiing a shorter ski?  I find shorter skis easier to handle especially in moguls and I'm not looking to bomb down the hill, but rather work on my skills and finesse. 173-175 is probably the ideal length I like but unless a ski run short or long most companies don't manufacture in that range.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheizz View Post
 

Well, the labels marketing departments use to determine the level of skier the ski is intended for ('expert ski', 'inermediate ski' etc.) is often based on the max of the ski. But that doesn't mean that an (advanced) intermediate skier cannot ski on them. If anything, in recent years, the skier level range of skis has been extended greatly. 

 

I think you should aim for a smooth ski that doesn't punish you. But I would not go for an 'intermediate' ski. You will outgrow them very soon, and you won't progress as rapidly as you could. 

 

I think I get what you're saying. The max performance of an intermediate ski will be limited, but there are performance skis today that have a wider envelope that accommodates intermediate skiers? Is that correct?

 

So then markojp's suggestion for the monster ski would be applicable here? Here's another off the wall idea I will throw out there. A local shop has some leftover demos they're trying to unload and talking to them they said I might like the Laser AX. I dismissed the idea since my conception of stockli skis are for experts only and they're trying to unload stock on me, but they said it wasn't particularly punishing and could possibly help me be a better skier since its a technically derived ski (or something to that effect). They're in great shape and I could grab them for really cheap, but IDK. Thoughts? Out of my range?

post #11 of 27

Haven't skied that Stöckli, but you definately get my point. You should give them a try.

post #12 of 27

Laser AX is 78mm.  There are some great reviews here on that ski.

 

I hate to be the perpetual Kastle-fanboy, but consider the previous FX84 / FX94 ( both available in 176 ) which you can still get on closeout new for $600 ( or less ) -> contact Dawgcatching.

Lots of great reviews on both at Epic.  The FX94 is my "confidence ski" ..... something I never have to think about under my feet.

If you want a bit more front-side biased and shorter, then MX83 173

 

Also take a gander at Stockli Scale Delta which his 83 and 177.  I acquired a set a few weeks ago and only one quick outing on them, but looking forward to next season on them.

For any of the above ( and Head Monster & Fischer Motive 86 ), contact Scott / Dawgcatching as he has/had great end of season deals on all of the above ( but looks like a lot of his last remaining inventory got sold off ).  I'm not sure if his website is current, but give him call or email/PM if anything is of interest and available.

 

Good luck in the hunt ~ Andy


Edited by ARL67 - 4/29/16 at 4:58pm
post #13 of 27


I'm pretty new here so I'll comment and run, but I was just at my local shop yesterday and the Kastle MX83s and MX88s were priced much lower than I was expecting; They didn't say as much, but I assume in anticipation of the new 84 and 89s. I went in looking to feel up a postseason Kendo, but might pull the trigger on the 88s. Maybe more camber than you're looking for, but just another model to throw into the indecision fire. ;-)

post #14 of 27
Thread Starter 

I have done a lot of reading on the Laser AX. It seems to be one of those really good universally acclaimed upper eschelon types of skis. Same with the Kastle mx83 and fx84. But I guess I'm still unsure whether if those premium skis are going to be conducive to a skier like me trying to break out of that intermediate plateau.

 

I really don't know where to go with this. Been looking at the Motive 86 ti and Head Strong Instinct the most. Read somewhere that the Instinct has the same shape as the Monster series, its just easier to ski? Any additional suggestions or advice anyone has are appreciated. Feel free to chime in anybody.. Skiing is pretty much done for me so no more demoing until next season. Budget is tight so would love to grab an off season deal if I could but maybe that won't happen.

 

  • Fischer Motive 86 Ti
  • Head Strong Instinct
  • Stockli Laser AX
  • Head Monster 83
  • Kastle MX83
  • Kastle FX84
  • K2 Ikonic 85
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich View Post

I have done a lot of reading on the Laser AX. It seems to be one of those really good universally acclaimed upper eschelon types of skis. Same with the Kastle mx83 and fx84. But I guess I'm still unsure whether if those premium skis are going to be conducive to a skier like me trying to break out of that intermediate plateau.

I really don't know where to go with this. Been looking at the Motive 86 ti and Head Strong Instinct the most. Read somewhere that the Instinct has the same shape as the Monster series, its just easier to ski? Any additional suggestions or advice anyone has are appreciated. Feel free to chime in anybody.. Skiing is pretty much done for me so no more demoing until next season. Budget is tight so would love to grab an off season deal if I could but maybe that won't happen.
  • Fischer Motive 86 Ti
  • Head Strong Instinct
  • Stockli Laser AX
  • Head Monster 83
  • Kastle MX83
  • Kastle FX84
  • K2 Ikonic 85
Uh, what will be conducive to breaking out of an intermediate plateau is a bunch of lessons. Otherwise higher end skis may feel so demanding and irritatingly unpredictable that you'd be happier on the E84's. Conversely, you can become an advanced skier on your 84's without need of $1K new skis. Just saying....
post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Uh, what will be conducive to breaking out of an intermediate plateau is a bunch of lessons. Otherwise higher end skis may feel so demanding and irritatingly unpredictable that you'd be happier on the E84's. Conversely, you can become an advanced skier on your 84's without need of $1K new skis. Just saying....
 

In general, your advice makes perfect sense that money is better spent on lessons instead of new skis.  But in this case, the OP is already a ski nut taking lessons and is following the advice of his instructors to get more appropriate skis . . . as stated in Post #1.  Besides, isn't the point of a ski forum to encourage people to spend money on gear? :)

 

Quote: Post #1

Originally Posted by Erich View Post
 

I know intermediate skis are not the most glamorous of topics, but I'm looking for an all-mountain ski to replace my Rossignol Experience 84's. Maybe you guys can help.

 

6'1" 180lbs these days. Ski the Rockies. Been skiing regularly for a few years now and very frustrated with my progress. I get plenty of days but I'm stuck in perpetual intermediacy.  When I first started I knew nothing about gear and bought a lot of wrong skis, too big, too wide, too stiff, not knowing better.

 

I've taken quite a few lessons (most of my ski budget goes towards them) and outside of technique, most of my instructors advised me to get off of these 180cm+ stiff fully rockered skis (a volkl at the time) and onto a more traditional, shorter ski. Something with mostly camber, a little tip rocker and medium flex would help me learn to bend the ski and do drills better. The more I learned about gear the more it made sense and the 84's helped a lot. I learned to carve on them which was a huge step forward (although I'm still not great at it).

 

Beginner skis I crush, and most demo skis I've tried are too stiff and expert-oriented. But I've found through demo days I like a more even progressive flex than the E84's which are much more on-off, and binary. Also looking for something with less than the 30% rocker that the rossis have.

 

Any recommendations for a true intermediate level ski that is smooth, easy going, confidence building, can carve, smear, does moguls and just is all around a well rounded ski? Not looking for that nth degree of performance here or anything. I know my issues stem mostly from me, but I just want to become a better skier and not worry about what's under my feet.

 

Thanks

post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheizz View Post
 

I would recommend the Fischer Motive 86 TI. Dimension-wise they're much like the Rossis (although slightly larger radius), but the construction will definately help you to grow confidence and improve on all aspects of your technique. They have a much higher max than the Rossis, but anyone level 6 or up can ski them without any problem. 

 

They will carve real nicely, but they are a bit more stable than the Rossis, mostly due to the metal (in stead of the Rosii E84's carbon, which doesn;t help the edge hold or stability at speed). 

 

Here's an extensive review by Blister Gear: http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2014-2015-fischer-motive-86-ti

And here's my own review of them: http://www.yellowgentian.com/ski-reviews/all-mountain/fischer-motive-86

 

Frankly, I don't understand why you should go under 180 cm! You are 185 cm tall and all all-mountain skis now ski shorter since they have some amount of tip and tail rocker... You will loose some stability and also some edge grip since effective edges are smaller on skis with some rocker and since you want a ski not too stiff and also, you are not an heavy skier but also not very light...

Bring a tape to a ski shop and measure some of the skis and you will be surprised how short they usually are compared to what they say is there actual lenght...

 

I also would suggest the Motive 86 ti. It is a nice all mountain ski that is a bit less stiff than skis like the Brahma but still very performant... In 182 cm not less! I'm selling mine cause I want longer ones...

 
X-Drive are supposed to be stiff as Monter skis... For the RTM, you could go with the 81, less expensive and a tad less stiff; in 182 cm. I skied the 177 and 182 and the 182 is as friendly as the 182 but the 182 is nicer since it is more stable since the RTM are mostly skis with a long and very progressive rocker that make them very very polyvalent. More polyvalent than the Motive 86 but I still prefer the feeling of the Motive's camber... More fun to carves...

 

 

 
 

 

 

 
 

 

post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post
 
 Besides, isn't the point of a ski forum to encourage people to spend money on gear?

:rotflmao:

post #19 of 27

Surprised no one has mentioned the Powertrack 84. It's on the softer side since it has no metal (unlike the 89) which would be better for you. Flat tail, moderate tip rocker, plenty of sidecut too so it's super easy to carve. Does decent in choppy snow and great in slush if you're a spring person. It's the ski that I personally used all the way from absolute beginner to advanced-intermediate, at which point I started preferring stiffer SL/GS skis. 

 

Blister has only done a review on its stiffer, wider brother but their assessment should be comparable. 

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/preview-2014-2015-dynastar-powertrack-89

post #20 of 27

Beside the Motive 86 and the Rtm 81, there is also The Ski from Scott but it is a little bit larger...Fun ski, easy to ski...

post #21 of 27

I am all for looking for new skis...but I guess I never heard exactly what was wrong with the Experience 84s?  It should fulfill all of the criteria you mentioned.  If the E84s are broken/ruined/worn out then I can see replacing them, but unless you have a specific problem with them that you are trying to remedy then I don't see the point in spending the money on another pair of similar skis.

post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnarvin View Post
 

I am all for looking for new skis...but I guess I never heard exactly what was wrong with the Experience 84s?  It should fulfill all of the criteria you mentioned.  If the E84s are broken/ruined/worn out then I can see replacing them, but unless you have a specific problem with them that you are trying to remedy then I don't see the point in spending the money on another pair of similar skis.


​I agree and was wondering the same thing.  Your last sentence was "I know my issues stem mostly from me, but I just want to become a better skier and not worry about what's under my feet.".  Well it sounds to me like that is exactly what you are doing - worrying about what is under your feet rather than just focusing on becoming a better skier.  By all means buy a ski that makes you happy, but don't fool yourself into thinking it will make you a better skier - that takes work.

post #23 of 27
Personally, I think the E84 is a really nice ski that's off the radar. Slightly narrower skis have been marketed as 'intermediate ' for a long while now. Why? Dunno, but it probably depends on what you want to sell.

Been skiing the past two seasons on an 'intermediate' ski. Love'em. Haven't held me back a bit.
post #24 of 27
Interesting point. Maybe that width is coming back; note the new MX84, the FX85, the Nordies, Stockli now etc.
post #25 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTski View Post
 


​I agree and was wondering the same thing.  Your last sentence was "I know my issues stem mostly from me, but I just want to become a better skier and not worry about what's under my feet.".  Well it sounds to me like that is exactly what you are doing - worrying about what is under your feet rather than just focusing on becoming a better skier.  By all means buy a ski that makes you happy, but don't fool yourself into thinking it will make you a better skier - that takes work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnarvin View Post
 

I am all for looking for new skis...but I guess I never heard exactly what was wrong with the Experience 84s?  It should fulfill all of the criteria you mentioned.  If the E84s are broken/ruined/worn out then I can see replacing them, but unless you have a specific problem with them that you are trying to remedy then I don't see the point in spending the money on another pair of similar skis.

 

You both present fair criticism here, so let me explain my reasoning. The Exp84 indeed ticks off every box on my list and its a good ski that I enjoyed for a season. The primary reason I am looking for a new ski is that to me it has a very distinct on-off turn shape to them. I never could really overcome it, and found it difficult to produce more subtle and varied turn shapes on them.

 

Once I started demoing a variety of other skis (mostly just for fun) I found that I liked skis that weren't so binary in their turn shape. They call this their Auto-turn rocker and lots of people love it but I'd like to ski something different at this point. I also felt that the 30% total rocker of the ski was a bit much and I want a ski with less rocker so I can have more stability and effective edge without having to move up in length.

 

I hope that helps everyone understand where I am coming from. Is it reason enough to move to a new ski? Maybe not with the way I stated I just didn't want to think about my skis. But if I can move to a ski that satisfies my revised objectives while not spending a fortune than I'd like to do so.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Personally, I think the E84 is a really nice ski that's off the radar. Slightly narrower skis have been marketed as 'intermediate ' for a long while now. Why? Dunno, but it probably depends on what you want to sell.

Been skiing the past two seasons on an 'intermediate' ski. Love'em. Haven't held me back a bit.

 

What are you skiing? I've noticed a lot of the skis marketed as "Intermediate" are in waist widths under 80, and that's fine and all. But I found low to mid eighties width pretty versatile for both groomers and going off groomed. The little bit extra width seems to help with stability in cut up and mixed snow.

post #26 of 27
Thread Starter 

I am adding the Powertrack to my list, since its seems to fit the bill and the price is right (although it has kind of a funky shape) and removing the Kastles since they are over my budget.

 

  • Fischer Motive 86 Ti
  • Head Strong Instinct
  • Stockli Laser AX
  • Head Monster 83
  • K2 Ikonic 85
  • Dynastar Powertrack 84

 

The Stockli's are $499 with demo binding. Traditional, just a hint of tip and tail rocker. Kind of exciting to think about owning such a highly revered ski, but still unsure whether it's going to be too much of a ski for an intermediate to handle. Anybody ski or own it have any feedback on it from that perspective?

 

The Kastles especially the MX 83 is very intriguing to me since it is another very traditional ski with lots of camber and just a slight tip rocker, but the price is out of budget.

 

Head Monster 83 and Strong Instinct are both still on the short list!

 

Would a Volkl Kendo be an appropriate choice here? All my experiences with Volkls have been that they're too stiff or full rockered, neither of which trait I really want right now. I assume the blizzards are also similarly stiff.

 

Cheers all

post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich View Post


I ski and work on a Rev 85 pro. I'll be on a monster 88 (monster 83 is the same construction ) next season and probably a pair of rebels iSpeed. I have a Gen 1 blizzard bodacious for deep days over 10" of fresh. I'm on the monster 88 iny avatar.
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