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Jay Peak and Burke 2016 issues - Page 4

post #91 of 112

The much anticipated and maligned Burke Mountain Lodge opens on Sept 1st. 

 

http://skiburke.com/deals/burke-mountain-lodge/

post #92 of 112

Stenger is out of a job.  First he announced a settlement with the SEC.  Next day the receiver announced "announced that Bill Stenger is no longer working at the resort" but instead "Stenger will provide assistance to the receiver on an “as-needed” basis."

 

http://vtdigger.org/2016/09/01/stenger-settles-sec/

 

http://vtdigger.org/2016/09/02/jay-peak-receiver-says-stenger-no-longer-working-resort/

post #93 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post
 

Stenger is out of a job.  First he announced a settlement with the SEC.  Next day the receiver announced "announced that Bill Stenger is no longer working at the resort" but instead "Stenger will provide assistance to the receiver on an “as-needed” basis."

 

http://vtdigger.org/2016/09/01/stenger-settles-sec/

 

http://vtdigger.org/2016/09/02/jay-peak-receiver-says-stenger-no-longer-working-resort/

 

Otherwise known as "Bill, you're going to tell me whatever I need to know, when I need to know it."

 

On a side note, I'm really enjoying the exposure VT Digger is getting out of this story. They have been a killer independent investigative journalism outfit here in VT for a while. They deserve the credit they're getting for this, and for many other exposes. 

post #94 of 112

I've come to rely on the VT Digger for updates.  Even if other media outlets put out a report first.

 

The Governor attended the Grand Opening of the Burke Mountain Hotel.  Sounds like the goal is to find a buyer and complete a sale some time in 2017.  The receiver is trying to get contractors paid in the next few months.

 

http://vtdigger.org/2016/09/09/shumlin-opens-burke-mountain-hotel/

 

* * *

Goldberg has asked the federal court in Miami that is hearing the SEC case to consider $3.6 million in liens filed by subcontractors.

“We will get them paid, a significant portion, hopefully within the next 60 to 90 days, and then we will move thereafter as we sell other assets to get them paid,” Goldberg said Thursday. “We owe a lot of money, but we’re going to get them all paid and this will be one of the few cases that will pay 100 cents on the dollar.”

Goldberg said that while some people may blame state government or others for the financial problem, the real blame rests with Quiros.

“Stenger did not line his pockets at all with this … The bulk of the money that was diverted funneled down to Quiros’ controlled accounts,” Goldberg said. “The forensic reporting indicates that the money flowed to Quiros and not to Stenger.”

* * *

post #95 of 112

Pretty interesting interview with the GM of Jay, Steve Wright.

 

http://www.saminfo.com/special-reports/8716-special-report-jay-peak-forges-ahead-2

 

"Since April, the news about Vermont’s Jay Peak has been heavily focused on the alleged indiscretions of its two former principals and the ensuing legal situation. What many headline-readers may not realize is that Jay has been operating daily—and business is strong.

Jay employs hundreds of people year-round, who work in the multiple facilities built with dollars raised through the recently maligned EB-5 Program. To find out what the day-to-day has been like since the SEC showed up in April, we asked Jay Peak general manager Steve Wright to fill us in. . . . "

post #96 of 112

We booked Jay Peak for this coming January.  Should I be worried?  We got a really good deal at the Toronto Ski Show.

post #97 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post
 

Pretty interesting interview with the GM of Jay, Steve Wright.

 

http://www.saminfo.com/special-reports/8716-special-report-jay-peak-forges-ahead-2

 

"Since April, the news about Vermont’s Jay Peak has been heavily focused on the alleged indiscretions of its two former principals and the ensuing legal situation. What many headline-readers may not realize is that Jay has been operating daily—and business is strong.

Jay employs hundreds of people year-round, who work in the multiple facilities built with dollars raised through the recently maligned EB-5 Program. To find out what the day-to-day has been like since the SEC showed up in April, we asked Jay Peak general manager Steve Wright to fill us in. . . . "


Interesting that he says that, even though they had to take out an additional 7 million dollar loan to cover expenses incurred this summer.

post #98 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundrulz View Post
 

We booked Jay Peak for this coming January.  Should I be worried?  We got a really good deal at the Toronto Ski Show.

Worried that they will still be in business?  No, they will be operating.

 

Worried that the conditions will be decent?  Always a concern.  January in the NK can be really fracking cold so bring lots of layers.  Conversely there is almost always a January thaw at some point.

post #99 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by crank View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundrulz View Post
 

We booked Jay Peak for this coming January.  Should I be worried?  We got a really good deal at the Toronto Ski Show.

Worried that they will still be in business?  No, they will be operating.

 

Worried that the conditions will be decent?  Always a concern.  January in the NK can be really fracking cold so bring lots of layers.  Conversely there is almost always a January thaw at some point.

 

It will most likely be icy, unless you get real lucky.  Due to the possibility of a January thaw the melt/freeze cycles are an unfortunate part of our lives out here.  Basically you just never know.  Could be excellent, could be a sheet of ice. 

post #100 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post
 

I've come to rely on the VT Digger for updates.  Even if other media outlets put out a report first.

 

The Governor attended the Grand Opening of the Burke Mountain Hotel.  Sounds like the goal is to find a buyer and complete a sale some time in 2017.  The receiver is trying to get contractors paid in the next few months.

 

http://vtdigger.org/2016/09/09/shumlin-opens-burke-mountain-hotel/

 

* * *

Goldberg has asked the federal court in Miami that is hearing the SEC case to consider $3.6 million in liens filed by subcontractors.

“We will get them paid, a significant portion, hopefully within the next 60 to 90 days, and then we will move thereafter as we sell other assets to get them paid,” Goldberg said Thursday. “We owe a lot of money, but we’re going to get them all paid and this will be one of the few cases that will pay 100 cents on the dollar.”

Goldberg said that while some people may blame state government or others for the financial problem, the real blame rests with Quiros.

“Stenger did not line his pockets at all with this … The bulk of the money that was diverted funneled down to Quiros’ controlled accounts,” Goldberg said. “The forensic reporting indicates that the money flowed to Quiros and not to Stenger.”

* * *


Took longer than 90 days, but Goldberg managed to get the contractors all of the money they were owed.  A settlement for $150 million was announced on 4/13/17.  Still has to be approved by a federal judge.

 

https://vtdigger.org/2017/04/13/brokerage-firm-eb-5-fraud-case-agrees-150m-settlement/

 

* * * * * 

. . .

Unpaid contractors will receives a total of $6.4 million from the settlement. Also, Lyndonville Electric Department will be paid $350,000 and Vermont Electric Cooperative will receive $380,000. In addition, the sewer department for the towns of Jay and Troy will get $167,000 owed for wastewater treatment services.

 

“Each of these entities, each of these companies will be paid 100 cents on every dollar that they were owed,” Scott said. “While this does wipe the slate lean for the individuals, businesses and communities harmed by this alleged fraud, it is very, very encouraging news."

. . .

That leaves the Jay Peak Resort unencumbered for a future purchaser. Debts associated with both properties, such as the unpaid bills to contractors, are being resolved with the Raymond James settlement.

 

When the properties, Jay Peak and Burke Mountain, are eventually sold, the remaining 670 or so investors will receive proceeds from the transactions, Goldberg said.

 

The receiver said he had no idea at this point how much either property would sell for, or whether the investors would get all of their money back.

. . .

* * * * *

post #101 of 112

I wonder if Vail (Stowe) and/or Aspen/KSL (Tremblant, Stratton) will be interested in Jay Peak?

post #102 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Crocker View Post
 

I wonder if Vail (Stowe) and/or Aspen/KSL (Tremblant, Stratton) will be interested in Jay Peak?

Those are currently the two companies that are getting the most buzz around here. Everyone at Burke is hoping any future owner is more stable than those from the past.

post #103 of 112
Would these sell as a combo deal or individually? I can't see Burke selling to one of the large ski companies. It is too remote from population centers.
post #104 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by bustedknee View Post

Would these sell as a combo deal or individually? I can't see Burke selling to one of the large ski companies. It is too remote from population centers.

 

According to Google maps, Burke is about the same drive time to Boston as Stowe, Sugarbush, or Killington, to pick 3. (They're all within 10 mins of each other.)

 

Now I don't know the roads and how that varies with seasons, but it can't really be that much further/different compared to those 3, right?

 

And not that those are ALL selling to the large companies, but Stowe did.

post #105 of 112
Boston's population is no match to New York, not even Montreal. Besides, you can day trip from Burlington to Stowe easily. Burke? Not so much.

That's not the only difference between Stowe and Burke. Just saying.
post #106 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by at_nyc View Post

Boston's population is no match to New York, not even Montreal. Besides, you can day trip from Burlington to Stowe easily. Burke? Not so much.

That's not the only difference between Stowe and Burke. Just saying.

 

Sure, but when you're talking about big ski corporations who want to attract vacationers to their destination resorts, Boston - and maybe Montreal or other big centers - are really what matters. Burlington's metro area is about 214K people per Google. Boston is 4.6 million, or more than 20 times larger. (Not sure what the skier populations are, but presumably that pulls Burlington a bit closer.) 

 

And Burke is only about 2 hours from Burlington... the closest place I can ski is an hour and half. So it could be do-able, although not likely if a lot of other good places are closer. 

 

I'm not saying Burke would make a good choice for a ski corporation to buy, but there doesn't seem to be anything too negative about it's location on a map. Seems like it could make sense just from that stand point. Although certainly if there was a good resort option for purchase closer to Boston, that might make even more sense.

post #107 of 112
Thread Starter 

I don't think Vail would be interested in Burke - not as sure about Aspen. With ~50 trails and ~250 skiable acres, it does not seem like something that either would "bother with", unless there was some unique or strategic value. I think Vail will want to add to its portfolio on the east coast but will want to do so in a way that leverages Stowe, its Epic pass and it's non-skiing revenue initiatives. That would likely mean either Smugglers Notch, which is next door to Stowe, or perhaps fairly large mountains like Sugarloaf, Sugarbush, Okemo or Jay Peak, or an "iconic" or "unique" mountain such as Whiteface or Mad River. 

 

As others have pointed out, Smugglers Notch is basically linked to Stowe and connecting the two would be easy enough with a short gondola ride. Smugglers Notch is also large enough to move the needle for Vail and would seem to offer other business opportunities such as lodging and real estate development. Sugarloaf, Okemo and Jay Peak would also seem to be potentially logical purchases, given their size both in terms of skiable acres as well as real estate development opportunities. Okemo was sold to EPR Properties and Och-Ziff Real Estate recently as part of 36 properties, including 14 ski resorts. I can see EPR and Och-Ziff wanting to sell it to a strategic buyer like Vail. As for Sugarbush, Whiteface and Mad River, they do not seem to be for sale, so they are probably not realistic targets.

 

The challenge for buyers like Vail and Aspen seems to revolve around size and location. Once you get below the ten largest mountains, things get fairly small. Killington has 1,500 skiable acres, followed by Sugarloaf, Smugglers Notch, Sunday River, Okemo and Stratton with 1,400, 1,000, 850, 630 and 625 respectively. Stowe has ~500 acres. So, there are barely ten mountains on the east coast that would seem attractive in terms of size,and many of them either already part of Vail or Aspen or some other multi-resort owner, or are simply not for sale.

 

The other issue is location. It would seem that a buyer like Vail would not be too keen on buying properties in the southern part of the east coast ski area. Given the weather these days and the competitive pricing pressures from season passes, it would seem like an expensive proposition given the need for significant snow making. It would also seem not to offer much leverage for Vail to get the folks skiing at these resorts to fly out west, or to tempt folks out west to fly east to ski these mountains.

 

In the end, Vail is not simply looking to amass a long list of mountains to make money from selling $600 season passes. While that may be a great thing for some people, the real focus of Vail is to create an environment where people not only fork out $600 for a season pass, but also spend lots of money on things such as food, lodging, lessons, equipment...which in contract to a season ski pass are NOT cheap. It's similar to how movie theaters focus on concessions (and charge you $5 for a small bucket of popcorn) and not just movie tickets or how casinos focus on food and beverage and not just on gambling revenue.


Edited by naja - 4/18/17 at 3:23pm
post #108 of 112
Quote:
 Sugarbush is basically linked to Stowe and connecting the two would be easy enough with a short gondola ride.

I think you are confusing Sugarbush and Smuggler's Notch. :dunno

 

Burke has very strong ties with the US Ski Team, has a large new fancy hotel, and is easy to get to (does a 3 hour drive on almost all interstate from the Hartford, CT area count as easy?).  All of which either Aspen or Vail may be interested in. 

post #109 of 112
Thread Starter 
  • Connecticut

Mohawk Mountain Ski Area — Cornwall

Mount Southington — Plantsville

Ski Sundown — New Hartford

Woodbury Ski Area — Woodbury

Powder Ridge Ski Area — Middlefield

  • Maine

Baker Mountain — Bingham

Big Rock — Mars Hill

Big Squaw — Greenville

Black Mountain of Maine — Rumford

Camden Snow Bowl — Camden

Eaton Mountain — Skowhegan

Hermon Mountain — Hermon

Lonesome Pine Trails — Fort Kent

Lost Valley — Auburn

Mount Abram — Greenwood

Mount Jefferson Ski Area — Lee

Powderhouse Hill — South Berwick

Quoggy Jo — Presque Isle

Saddleback Maine — Rangeley

Shawnee Peak — Bridgton

Sugarloaf — Carrabassett Valley

Sunday River — Newry

Titcomb Mountain — Farmington

  • Massachusetts

Berkshire East Ski Resort — Charlemont

Blandford Ski Area — Blandford

Blue Hills Ski Area — Canton

Bousquet Ski Area — Pittsfield

Butternut — Great Barrington

Easton Ski Area at Eaglebrook School

Jiminy Peak — Hancock

Mount Greylock Ski Club — Williamstown

Nashoba Valley Ski Area — Westford

Otis Ridge — Otis

Ski Bradford — Haverhill

Ski Ward — Shrewsbury

Wachusett Mountain — Princeton

  • New Hampshire

Arrowhead — Claremont

Attitash — Bartlett

Black Mountain — Jackson

Bretton Woods — Bretton Woods

Cannon Mountain — Franconia Notch

Cranmore Mountain Resort — North Conway

Crotched Mountain — Bennington

Dartmouth Skiway — Lyme

Granite Gorge — Keene

Gunstock Mountain Resort — Gilford

King Pine — East Madison

Loon Mountain — Lincoln

McIntyre Ski Area — Manchester

Mount Prospect — Lancaster

Mount Sunapee Resort — Sunapee

Pats Peak — Henniker

Ragged Mountain — Danbury

Tenney Mountain Ski Resort — Plymouth

The Balsams Wilderness — Dixville Notch

Waterville Valley Resort — Waterville Valley

Whaleback — Enfield

Wildcat Mountain — Pinkham Notch

  • Rhode Island

Yawgoo Valley — Exeter

  • Vermont

Bear Creek Mountain Club — Plymouth

Bolton Valley Resort — Bolton Valley

Bromley Mountain — Peru

Burke Mountain — East Burke

Cochran's Ski Area — Richmond

Jay Peak Resort — Jay

Killington Ski Resort — Killington

Mad River Glen — Fayston

Magic Mountain — Londonderry

Middlebury College Snow Bowl — Hancock

Mount Snow — West Dover

Okemo Mountain — Ludlow

Pico Mountain — Killington

Quechee Lakes Ski Area — Quechee

Smugglers' Notch — Jeffersonville

Stowe Mountain Resort — Stowe

Stratton Mountain Resort — Stratton Mountain

Sugarbush Resort — Warren

Suicide Six — South Pomfret

  • Maryland

Wisp Ski Resort — McHenry

  • New Jersey

Campgaw Mountain — Mahwah

Hidden Valley — Vernon

Mountain Creek — Vernon

  • New York

Beartown Ski Area — Plattsburgh

Belleayre Ski Center — Highmount

Big Tupper Ski Area — Tupper Lake

Brantling Ski Slopes — Sodus

Bristol Mountain Ski Resort — South Bristol

Buffalo Ski Club — Colden

Catamount Ski Area — Hillsdale

Dry Hill Ski Area — Watertown

Gore Mountain — North Creek

Greek Peak — Virgil

Hickory Ski Center — Warrensburg

Holiday Valley — Ellicottville

Holiday Mountain Ski & Fun — Monticello

Holimont — Ellicottville

Hunter Mountain — Hunter

Kissing Bridge — Colden

Labrador Mountain — Truxton

Mount Peter Ski Area — Warwick

McCauley Mountain — Old Forge

Peek'n Peak — Clymer

Plattekill Mountain — Roxbury

Royal Mountain — Caroga

Song Mountain Resort — Tully

Snow Ridge Ski Resort — Turin

Swain — Swain

Sugar Hill — Sugar Hill

Thunder Ridge Ski Area — Patterson

Titus Mountain — Malone

Toggenburg Mountain — Fabius

West Mountain — Glens Falls

Willard Mountain — Greenwich

Whiteface Mountain — Wilmington

Windham Mountain — Windham

Woods Valley Ski Resort — Westernville

  • Pennsylvania

Alpine Mountain Ski & Ride Center — Scranton

Bear Creek Mountain Resort — Macungie

Blue Knob All Seasons Resort — Claysburg

Blue Mountain Ski Area — Palmerton

Boyce Park — Plum

Camelback Ski Area — Tannersville

Eagle Rock Resort — Hazleton

Elk Mountain — Union Dale

Hidden Valley Four Seasons Resort — Hidden Valley

Jack Frost Big Boulder — Blakeslee

Laurel Mountain Ski Resort — Ligonier

Liberty Mountain Resort — Carroll Valley

Mountain View at Edinboro — Edinboro

Seven Springs Mountain Resort — Seven Springs

Shawnee Mountain Ski Area — East Stroudsburg

Ski Big Bear — Lackawaxen

Ski Denton — Coudersport

Ski Roundtop — Lewisberry

Spring Mountain -Schwenksville

Ski Sawmill — Morris

Montage Mountain Ski Resort — Scranton

Tussey Mountain Ski Area — State College

Whitetail Ski Resort — Mercersburg

post #110 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fromthenek View Post
 

I think you are confusing Sugarbush and Smuggler's Notch. :dunno

 

Burke has very strong ties with the US Ski Team, has a large new fancy hotel, and is easy to get to (does a 3 hour drive on almost all interstate from the Hartford, CT area count as easy?).  All of which either Aspen or Vail may be interested in. 

 

Yes - corrected. Had not had my coffee yet when I wrote this. :o

post #111 of 112

I'm inclined to agree that Jay is a logical target but Burke is not.  Montreal's metro population is 4 million, and I'll bet its skier population is at least as high as Boston's.  With both Jay and Tremblant, Aspen/KSL would sit very well in that region.

 

When Mammoth was up for sale in 2005, supposedly most prospective buyers did not want June Mt. as part of the package.  My guess is that Dave McCoy insisted that it be included.  For the recent sale, I doubt June was a sticking point because both Starwood and Aspen/KSL were eager to make a deal and both Mammoth and Big Bear are very valuable as counterweights to Vail. 

post #112 of 112
Two things about Burke, as mentioned, it has one of the premier race academy in the country and, it is THE premier New England summer mountain bike destinations. With a little bit of effort it could be a major eastcoast player in lift access mtb ing. Race families + mt bikers might make it more viable than it seems for someone who wants 4 season activity.
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