or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Should a solo skier ever get blind air?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Should a solo skier ever get blind air? - Page 4

Poll Results: Is it ever ok for a someone to take a jump or get air without being 100% certain that there is nobody in the landing area? Please read the scenarios below before responding. Please describe scenarios for yes answers.

 
  • 10% (6)
    Yes, but only in the terrain park
  • 22% (13)
    Yes, both in and out of the park (in certain scenarios)
  • 1% (1)
    Yes, but only outside the terrain park
  • 59% (35)
    No
  • 6% (4)
    Uncertain/Undecided
59 Total Votes  
post #91 of 112

This is a very good example of why the guidelines are important!  Saying that its a landing zone and expecting someone coming in from a different line to be aware of that is unreasonable.  This is not where there is a marked trail that you are skiing into, but an entire hill that is whatever trail that you can ski.

 

While the uphill skier carries to greatest responsibility, it is still important to sitiuasionaly aware so that don't ski into a bad situation. Looking at the second video is a good example as you clearly see multiple lines and runs made by numerous skiers.  That alone should be a warning that there is risk of collision as it has become a popular and crowded spot. The lucky thing is that no one was hurt and over all both were civil with one another, but it could have been a lot worse.

 

Years ago when I was young and stupid, we used to jump into blind spots at full tilt, in those cases we always posted a spotter at the take off point (or there about) that could see the landing zone and surrounding area, along with the start zone and signal the all clear.  Even then it was risky, but for the most part avoided any collisions or near collisions.  Back then ski patrol gave us more freedom as we policed ourselves to prevent injury to others (self inflicted was another matter), it appears that ski patrol now has less tolerance, however I see less caring about others now by certain individuals, so I understand this lower tolerance level.

post #92 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiSchoolPros View Post

Unless they are in clear view from above, I have always seen park workers either do their raking with the top entrance to the park closed or the feature they are working on blocked off. I would view it as negligent of the park worker to do otherwise. The scenario I was thinking of was more along the lines of someone 5+ minutes ahead crashing and not being able to move out of the landing area. (Edit- like Ghost said in post #15). If you require everyone to have 2 spotters (one to help the injured rider and the other to block the take off), then I guess this could be avoided.

Unfortunately, I think nathanvg & kbat11700 are right about current park etiquette- some people try to take safety precautions, but often get passed by the ones who don't. (I do think this is less common on the big features where there are fewer people and more experienced park rats)

My guess is that it is much more dangerous in a crowded park than it would be in the wait 2-5+ minutes scenario in an empty park. Edit- when there are multiple blind park features, I rarely see spotters at every one. How many spotters do you see in this NSAA Smart Style/Park Smart Safety Video? They do show this at minute 6, but I don't see spotters 90% of the time leading up to this. 

 

There's no 100 percent certainty of anything. To let that be rationalization for NOT striving for 100% isn't really an argument that WC course officials would subscribe to.
post #93 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

There's no 100 percent certainty of anything.

Actually there is, but I think it's pretty much only thing, that I can think of and it's always 100% spot on... and that's we will all die on the end. That's only thing that we can be 100% sure it will happen... at least with current state of medicine :D

post #94 of 112

Only sure thing is cogito ergo sum.

post #95 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


There's no 100 percent certainty of anything. To let that be rationalization for NOT striving for 100% isn't really an argument that WC course officials would subscribe to.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't strive to be as safe as is reasonably possible but if NSAA Terrain Park Safety videos don't show spotters at every blind jump and resorts build terrain parks with multiple consecutive blind jumps without stationing spotters for each one, then I think the current park practices will continue (which seem to include moving quickly out of the LZ and jumping blindly when you are mostly sure that nobody is in the LZ). 

 

To be clear, it is my impression that Park Safety has improved A LOT over the years (i.e. roping off the park, posting Smart Style signs, etc). Also, I have never heard about a collision death in the park (although I wouldn't be shocked if someone was able to dig one up) and it seems that the vast majority of park injuries do NOT involve collisions.

 

My guess is that staying clear of and moving quickly out of the landing zone plays a significant role in park safety as having redundant safety precautions can exponentially reduce risks of a negative outcome.

post #96 of 112
Quote:

Originally Posted by primoz View Post

 

Actually there is, but I think it's pretty much only thing, that I can think of and it's always 100% spot on... and that's we will all die on the end. That's only thing that we can be 100% sure it will happen... at least with current state of medicine :D

 

Death and taxes, the two constants in life.

The goood news is with the way science and medicine is matching along, we may get rid of death. :rolleyes 

post #97 of 112
No constant in taxes. It is one of the most poorly applied, regulated and prosecuted laws that we have.
post #98 of 112

The constant is in regard to its presence. 

post #99 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post

The constant is in regard to its presence. 

Taxation is a relatively recent addition to society in terms of human history. It hasn't always been around and there is no guarantee that is will stay around. There are five countries in the world that have no income tax and there are many cultures that don't tax their indigenous people. Our own taxes are in a constant state of flux with new laws that come and go as fast as the politicians who make them. I know the phrase "death and taxes" is popular, but is more ironic than accurate.
post #100 of 112

Lighten up  - this is not the PHT forum.

 

Don't take life too seriously, you will never get out of it alive. :eek 

post #101 of 112
Informational. Even though there might not be an income tax, there are other taxes, such as property tax, social security, sales tax: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/01/04/10-countries-with-zero-income-taxes.aspx

I'd be interested in what country has NO tax. Are there roads?
post #102 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post

Taxation is a relatively recent addition to society in terms of human history.

The Phoenicians had taxation. Taxation is literally as old as the alphabet.

The correct answer to OP's question is no. The fact that someone should not be standing there will be little consolation if you snap your spinal cord.
post #103 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post

Lighten up  - this is not the PHT forum.

Don't take life too seriously, you will never get out of it alive. eek.gif  

I'm chill. You seem to be the one getting a little anxious over this. You have Benjamin Franklin on your side, I'm sure you'll be fine.
post #104 of 112

*mod hat on*

 

Thread drift happens, but when it wanders into realms not even tangentially related to skiing, it is time to rein them in. Thanks all. 

 

*mod had off*

post #105 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post
 

*mod hat on*

 

Thread drift happens, but when it wanders into realms not even tangentially related to skiing, it is time to rein them in. Thanks all. 

 

*mod had off*

I followed this thread for a few posts when it started. When I saw this post my curiosity was piqued--I'm tempted to read the whole thing just to see how it managed to wind up here but I think I'll pass.

 

But yeah--son't jump if you or your spotter can't see the landing area AND other skiers who might be entering the landing area. Came out of the woods one time just as some guy sailed over my wife's head. Turns out squaw ski team was practicing prejumps at DH race speeds on an open intermediate trail on a weekend. We of course looked up the trail as we entered from the woods, but failed to look up in the air-- and the roller they were prejumping was a good 30 yards or more up the trail. They claim they had a spotter but obviously wasn't paying attention, not that it would have done any good. The run in question zig zags through the woods in an area where most people are skiing the trees, not the groomer. Of course the coach didn't think they were doing anything wrong. 

post #106 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post

Taxation is a relatively recent addition to society in terms of human history. It hasn't always been around and there is no guarantee that is will stay around. There are five countries in the world that have no income tax and there are many cultures that don't tax their indigenous people. Our own taxes are in a constant state of flux with new laws that come and go as fast as the politicians who make them. I know the phrase "death and taxes" is popular, but is more ironic than accurate.

Nope. Whatever you want to call requiring people to pay money or labor to the state emerged with the first city states, in Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley, then China, then in the Valley of Mexico and Peru. Been with us every since. Coupla centuries of archeology, historical scholarship and political science to back this up. Can be money, can be labor, can be food, can be military or state service. Can be to the nation or the city or the chief. You can call it taxes or tithes or Corvee. All something you have to give to live there.

Meanwhile, anyone who takes air on a rec slope without a spotter will likely help put a lawyer's kids through college. My own mea culpa: About 30 years ago came flying, literally, out of some trees at Aspen Highlands, landed a few inches in front of a guy I hadn't seen coming around a rolling hill I was sure I had checked. Yard sale ensued, he was less than impressed, I was just very lucky I didn't come out a second earlier and hit him square. Backcountry, it'll help put your own doctor's kids through.

(Sorry mod. 😏 But you'll have to admit the drift can get more interesting than the thread topic, right?)
post #107 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Nope. Whatever you want to call requiring people to pay money or labor to the state emerged with the first city states, in Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley, then China, then in the Valley of Mexico and Peru. Been with us every since. Coupla centuries of archeology, historical scholarship and political science to back this up. Can be money, can be labor, can be food, can be military or state service. Can be to the nation or the city or the chief. You can call it taxes or tithes or Corvee. All something you have to give to live there

(Sorry mod. 😏 But you'll have to admit the drift can get more interesting than the thread topic, right?)

Can we keep drifting if we stay polite, the original topic is pretty played out now?

It is interesting as to what may be considered taxes, especially in cultures that existed prior to true monetary systems. Is a group of cavemen sharing the spoils of their kill with the tribe elders a form of tithing, or just communal sharing of resources?

Generally modern forms of taxation are credited to the ancient Egyptians, so can be dated to about 3,000 BC. Man's existence is more debatable. The bible date Adam and Eve to about 200,000 BC, as does the scientific determination of when modern man appeared. The evolutionary trail of ambulatory bipeds goes back close to 6,000,000 years. No matter whose time line you believe, taxation really is just a tick on the historical clock of mankind. Death is definitely more of a certainty.
post #108 of 112

I would agree that thread drift is a sign that a thread has gotten very repetitive, and the drift is often more interesting than the original thread. If people are bored they'll stop posting and the thread will go away, until it is bumped 10 years from now. Self policing is often best. (Full disclosure--I am a notorious thread drifter; my mind seems to wander in strange directions.)

post #109 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post

…... The bible date Adam and Eve to about 200,000 BC, as does the scientific determination of when modern man appeared…...

 

 

Wait …… What?!?!

 

 

 

Drift?  What drift??

post #110 of 112
Well, lift access skiing sicker 3000 years ago in the 'recent' scheme of things. smile.gif
post #111 of 112
... Sucked
post #112 of 112

You ca never be to safe. There was a spotter at the top of the rail and the filmer at the bottom. When the guy was already going the snowboard kid fell right at the end of the rail. Stuff happens, its a part of the sport

http://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/681900/Lipslide-to-Nut-Smack

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Should a solo skier ever get blind air?