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Safety Warning or Mind Your Own Business? - Page 2

Poll Results: When you see a stranger stopped at a really dangerous place and in no hurry to move what do you do?

 
  • 16% (6)
    Stop and talk to them
  • 50% (18)
    Say something as I go by
  • 0% (0)
    Talk to them if I see them later
  • 27% (10)
    Say nothing
  • 5% (2)
    Something else
36 Total Votes  
post #31 of 59

When the code collide whether it's rule 1 vs 3 or 2 or 3vs 4 or whatever, someone always brings up the purely logicician's argument which ignores reality.  

People aren't robots, the world is not simply black and white.  The underlying assumption that one needs to realize about the code is that it's for a system where imperfect humans exist, so the set of rules needs to build in resiliance and backups and erroring on the side of caution when rules are not followed.

 

So car and traffic analogy goes here.  Obviously, the traffic laws are far more and cover every single scenario, so if they were all followed that set of code everything would run perfectly.  

Yet in reality, accidents and fatalities are so commonplace that they are mentioned just in passing about how your commute home is going to be delayed, and no empathy humanistic response that people just DIED.  Aliens would look down on this and say it's insane that 50,000 of your people just die in cars every year.  It would be like how humans view lemmings or buffalo unintelligent beasts for stampeding off of cliffs for no reason.

 

 

Pedestrians have the right of way, yet a Parent would be labelled insane if they just instructed their children to just run into the street as the cars by law are supposed to stop for kids.  And if you saw said kid run out into the street and cars just panic stop to avoid them, you'd tell that kid hey you should look both ways you can't always count on cars to stop because they don't want to kill you.  Nobody should judge you for that, although said kid may also throw back in your face,  mind your own business.  

If you've said your peace, move on with your life.  it's not it's not your job to save everyone unless you're ski patrol..

post #32 of 59
By your name I suspect you are an instructor, and as such are in uniform. That being the case your warning should hold weight. For me, I've found warns do little, but given a chance I do let ski patrol know and let them deal with it.

Stupid is as stupid does, Darwin will at somepoint take care of it (and depending on Lady Luck sometimes permanently or not).

Sounds harsh, but these same individuals are part of the me generation and don't react well to advice or have sense to consider others.
Edited by oldschoolskier - 4/22/16 at 2:43am
post #33 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raytseng View Post
 

  

If you've said your peace, move on with your life.  it's not it's not your job to save everyone unless you're ski patrol..

Good advice. I wouldn't have given it another thought had he not tracked me down and had stopped thinking about it until I saw the other thread about the kid getting flagged for ignoring the no jumping sign.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post

By your name I suspect you are an instructor, and as such are in uniform. That being the case your warning should hold weight. For me, I've found warns do little, but given a chance I do let ski patrol know and let them deal with it.

Stupid is as stupid does, Darwin will at somepoint take care of it (and depending on Lady Luck sometimes permanently or not).

Sounds harsh, but these same individuals are part of the me generation and don't react well to advice or have sense to consider others.

Yes, I instruct, but was not in uniform. Breck is not my home mountain (but I do free ski there regularly). Ski Patrol was not visible at the time and I warned the guy not only for his sake, but to help out the skiers following me- yes it is usually the sitting duck that gets hurt, but not always.

post #34 of 59

I think that as an instructor, even when out of kit, you're an ambassador of the sport and should view it as part of your responsibility to stop, tell the person in a friendly/non-patronizing way that "hey bud, I came over that lip and didn't see you until the last minute, might be a good move to shift yourself over to the <point out space> where people coming off that ridge can see you better."  At that point, they can take it or leave it, and if the reply is confrontational, then you can just say "OK, just thought I'd let you know, have a good run" and move on.  Either way, you've suggested a solution in the interest of safety and given the person something to learn from, if not immediately, at some point throughout the day or in the future.

 

Why do I think this?  My background is in road bike racing.  Road bike racers are a very high strung group of type A personalities often riding (or racing) in huge bunches of people in very close proximity at high speed, where if one makes a mistake, it can result in dozens of people hitting the asphalt in the blink of an eye.  Hitting asphalt in lycra hurts.  A lot.  Given that, if anyone is doing something twitchy, even if not intentional or stupid, they get yelled at.  Sometimes by a lot of people, and usually not very nicely.  This is especially common on big group rides where different experience levels will be intermixed.  I'm personally very receptive to criticism and would rather be yelled at than not told something, but have seen others that automatically go into defensive or confrontational mode when told to correct something, especially if told in a drive by one line manner, which many people would likely find patronizing.  

 

As I've gotten older and more experienced, I view it as a responsibility to tell someone if they need to correct something (i.e. the ambassador of the sport comment above), and through experience have found that it's way better to ride up beside whomever needs the correction, and say in a friendly non-patronizing way what was done and how it could be done better.   

post #35 of 59
Thread Starter 

I agree about the ambassador of the sport idea and also agree that a pleasant chat can be more effective than a passing comment, but let me ask you this. Suppose you were road biking and a few seconds in front of a large group. You round a blind downhill corner and see a guy in the middle of the road straddling his bike having a drink of water. Would you slam on the brakes and stop for a chat?

 

I am happy to be an ambassador of the sport but NOT IF IT MEANS PUTTING MYSELF IN A VERY DANGEROUS SPOT. The guy was stopped in a very dangerous spot. Stopping anywhere near him with the momentum I had would have been difficult AND PUT ME IN A SIMILARLY DANGEROUS SPOT.

 

I do feel a responsibility to tell someone that they need to correct a dangerous behavior, but off the clock workman's comp wouldn't cover me (or my family) if I got hurt while stopping for a chat in a dangerous place. 

post #36 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiSchoolPros View Post
 

I agree about the ambassador of the sport idea and also agree that a pleasant chat can be more effective than a passing comment, but let me ask you this. Suppose you were road biking and a few seconds in front of a large group. You round a blind downhill corner and see a guy in the middle of the road straddling his bike having a drink of water. Would you slam on the brakes and stop for a chat?

 

I am happy to be an ambassador of the sport but NOT IF IT MEANS PUTTING MYSELF IN A VERY DANGEROUS SPOT. The guy was stopped in a very dangerous spot. Stopping anywhere near him with the momentum I had would have been difficult AND PUT ME IN A SIMILARLY DANGEROUS SPOT.

 

I do feel a responsibility to tell someone that they need to correct a dangerous behavior, but off the clock workman's comp wouldn't cover me (or my family) if I got hurt while stopping for a chat in a dangerous place. 

 

clearly you've decided that your actions were entirely justified and that there was no better alternatives  Our suggestions as to how you might have better handle the situation have fallen on deaf ears. The thread is not a total waste though; as someone who has been known to yell at people on my way by I see the need to change my own behavior, so thank you for that. Bye.

post #37 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

 

clearly you've decided that your actions were entirely justified and that there was no better alternatives  Our suggestions as to how you might have better handle the situation have fallen on deaf ears. The thread is not a total waste though; as someone who has been known to yell at people on my way by I see the need to change my own behavior, so thank you for that. Bye.

I agree with you...I do think this thread has made me more aware that there are some situations where I should make more of an effort to stop and talk instead of say something as I pass by, but I don't view this situation as one of them for the safety reasons previously stated. This thread may have made me more inclined to say nothing in similar future situations which I view as a bit of a disservice to safety as I think saying something while passing by is better in terms of safety (but not necessarily public reaction) than saying nothing.

post #38 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexSkier View Post
 

 

 

Ultimately the downhill skier has the right of way, so I can understand the stopped guy being offended by your comment.  If you can't see far enough ahead to avoid an obstacle, you need to slow down.  It sounds like the OP did slow down due to the change in terrain/vision and was able to avoid the downhill skier.  So good on the OP there.

 

 

Incorrect. The person downhill has the right of way if moving. Once you come to a stop, you have given up your right of way to the uphill skier. That's reflected in point 4 of the Responsibility Code:

 

"Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others."

 

It expressly states that you must yield before proceeding, which means you don't have the right of way. Its like the difference between driving in traffic and pulling out of a parking spot. If you get rear ended while driving, it's the other driver's fault. If you pull out of a parking spot in front of someone and they run into you..  your fault. 

post #39 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post
 

 

Incorrect. The person downhill has the right of way if moving. Once you come to a stop, you have given up your right of way to the uphill skier. That's reflected in point 4 of the Responsibility Code:

 

"Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others."

 

It expressly states that you must yield before proceeding, which means you don't have the right of way. Its like the difference between driving in traffic and pulling out of a parking spot. If you get rear ended while driving, it's the other driver's fault. If you pull out of a parking spot in front of someone and they run into you..  your fault. 

 

I agree and you are right.  In the case where you are beginning to move again you have to yield to others on the hill.  I personally defer to anyone downhill and give a wide berth because I don't trust everyone to follow the code.  I guess you could call it defensive driving.  This is also why I tend to say nothing except for the cases I noted before.  It's to avoid 'road rage' like the OP experienced.

 

If the person stopped on the hill is someone I know, then I will definitely talk to them, maybe not even stopping.  But to a total stranger, I choose not to interact in most cases.  If I was an employee of the resort in a uniform, I do think I would address anyone stopped in what I thought was an unsafe manner. With the uniform/employment comes additional responsibility and unpsoken authority/status.  But as a tourist, I don't think its my place to do so in most circumstances.

post #40 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post

There is no such thing as a blind spot on groomed terrain, just reckless people skiing faster than their line of vision. Slow down and mind you own business.

Are you nuts? Of course groomed runs can have blind spots.
post #41 of 59

I suppose the crux is if you think the person is doing the controversial thing because of an underlying reason of not knowing the thing, or if they know the rule but purposely choose to ignore it.  

 

So for example if someone has their headlights off (minus the urban legend), or left their coffee on top of their car, or if the guy is driving on a flat tire, it's more acceptable to try to help inform the person of the knowledge they didn't know.

But if you see someone speeding on the freeway, or making an illegal U turn, you shouldn't have an urge to pull them over and let them know they're driving badly.

 

So, I think if it's kids or obviously lower experienced skiers, you can be a bit more free to give advice as it is more likely they just don't know and would appreciate the tip.

post #42 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utahski View Post

Are you nuts? Of course groomed runs can have blind spots.

Give me an example. Any stationary obstacle can be seen and avoided by slowing down. If you hit someone or something on a groomer, it's because you saw it too late, not that you never saw it at all.

"Blind spot" is excuse terminology.
post #43 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post

Give me an example. Any stationary obstacle can be seen and avoided by slowing down. If you hit someone or something on a groomer, it's because you saw it too late, not that you never saw it at all.

"Blind spot" is excuse terminology.

It's you who used the term "blind spot".

Don't be making blanket statements, pretending to know all about every ski area. I'm not gonna' waste time listing places on our mountain. But there are dropoffs on some of our groomed runs where people could be and get run into by someone not going very fast. And on several occasions I've seen idiot snowboarders sitting on their butts in a line across the run where it becomes a steeper section.
post #44 of 59
Not that it matters, but there a few groomers at our hill that I've never skied the length of at full speed because of limited views over roll overs. If I hit someone, as a mountain employee, even if out of uniform, I would fully expect to be terminated. On one run in particular, anything beyond first run of the day when I know exactly who's ahead of me, I always stop at the top of the roll overs. 1:5 chance there's someone over terrained or stopped/garage saled below the sight line.
post #45 of 59
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
There is no such thing as a blind spot on groomed terrain, just reckless people skiing faster than their line of vision. Slow down and mind you own business.
 
 

I don't know where you ski, but I've skied in enough places that have some spots that are downright dangerous; whether due to shadows, flat light conditions, etc.  As for me, when I see someone stopped in a bad spot, I usually slow down and "nicely" state, "hey, that's a bad spot to stop".

 

I haven't heard any wise ass comments.  maybe I just didn't hear them.;) 

post #46 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utahski View Post

It's you who used the term "blind spot".

Don't be making blanket statements, pretending to know all about every ski area. I'm not gonna' waste time listing places on our mountain. But there are dropoffs on some of our groomed runs where people could be and get run into by someone not going very fast. And on several occasions I've seen idiot snowboarders sitting on their butts in a line across the run where it becomes a steeper section.

So no examples then?
post #47 of 59
Someone prove me wrong here, I don't mind. Many of you are angrily reacting to my statement that there are no blind spots on groomers, just people skiing too fast to stop within their line of vision. You don't like that "blanket statement"?, give me an example of a groomer where you are unable to see ten feet ahead of you at any speed. Sure, there are corners and rollers, areas of poor visabiliy, variations in terrain, but blind spots? I'm open minded and have had my opinion changed here many times, so change it.
post #48 of 59
There's a number of places here where there are trail intersections that the average Joe wouldn't suspect existed and they could get hit. The bottom of 1000 Turns where it meets the junction of Big Ravine and Interstate, for example. Coming down Big Ravine, it's merging from behind and below you, looks like just an embankment and trees. But there's people coming screaming down 1000 Turns who then hang a left across that junction without stopping. You are above their left shoulder and they can't see you. You are heading straight, they are below your field of vision and approaching from behind. The average visitor here will have no idea that trail even exists. I'm watching because I live here and have almost been clipped several times. Both are groomed runs. There's no slow sign, no merge sign. The only reason there's not more carnage is lack of people.
post #49 of 59
Next. Heading from Ptarmigan Bowl over to the base of Chair Five, there's a groomed path through trees, it bends around to the left. I've found an asshole PEEING right as I rounded a fir tree, dead center of the groomed path.
post #50 of 59
Next. Glory Hole. Runs through a gorge, numerous groomed paths weaving around trees every which way. Tons of sudden drops and blind intersections. But it's groomed.
post #51 of 59
Next. Bottom of Ridge Run has a sharp curve, over ninety degrees, back over to your left. Take it too tight without a swing to your right first and there could easily be a body there. Absolutely no visibility from above. There's trees in the crook of the turn.
post #52 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post

Someone prove me wrong here, I don't mind. Many of you are angrily reacting to my statement that there are no blind spots on groomers, just people skiing too fast to stop within their line of vision. You don't like that "blanket statement"?, give me an example of a groomer where you are unable to see ten feet ahead of you at any speed. Sure, there are corners and rollers, areas of poor visabiliy, variations in terrain, but blind spots? I'm open minded and have had my opinion changed here many times, so change it.


I think you're OK with your first assertion and nobody can really convince you otherwise (although others may disagree and point out things but you would interpret it differently).

 

But the bigger flaws are with your corrollaries from that assertion where you imply this means accidents are because "skier is reckless" implying uphill is 100% at fault and has 100% responsibility to ski in control and see everything and prevent 100% of accidents  and that "one should mind their business" implies downhill parked skier has no responsibilities and needs not to anything to reduce the chance of accidents.

 

This gets to the logician's perspectiveI brought up before which works in theory but not in reality,.  The goal is to prevent accidents with illogical humans and not to determine who's right and who's wrong and where there are greys and the world is not just black and white..

 

In the context of this thread, your statement is impling you are siding with the folks who believe rule 1/2 has overarching power, and there is no point in following any of the subsequent rules because everyone should just follow rule 1 and that covers everything.  That's how people are interpretting your statement and why it's got issues in reality.


Edited by raytseng - 4/22/16 at 1:13pm
post #53 of 59

The run that pops to mind for me is Naked Lady at Snowmass. It has several spots with drops or lips that I would call blind spots, that could hide a fallen or stopped skier (even though it's a pretty easy run). I did a lot of speed checks at the top of these to make sure no one was there.

 

As far as saying something as I ski by, I have a few times - most recently on a narrow part of the Road Runner cat track at Mammoth where a snowboarder was sitting in the middle with his back facing uphill. I saw him from probably 50 yards uphill from him, and actually yelled to him to let him know I was coming, then slowed down and sad something like "That's a really bad place to stop" as I skied by. 

post #54 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Next. Heading from Ptarmigan Bowl over to the base of Chair Five, there's a groomed path through trees, it bends around to the left. I've found an asshole PEEING right as I rounded a fir tree, dead center of the groomed path.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

There's a number of places here where there are trail intersections that the average Joe wouldn't suspect existed and they could get hit. The bottom of 1000 Turns where it meets the junction of Big Ravine and Interstate, for example. Coming down Big Ravine, it's merging from behind and below you, looks like just an embankment and trees. But there's people coming screaming down 1000 Turns who then hang a left across that junction without stopping. You are above their left shoulder and they can't see you. You are heading straight, they are below your field of vision and approaching from behind. The average visitor here will have no idea that trail even exists. I'm watching because I live here and have almost been clipped several times. Both are groomed runs. There's no slow sign, no merge sign. The only reason there's not more carnage is lack of people.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Next. Glory Hole. Runs through a gorge, numerous groomed paths weaving around trees every which way. Tons of sudden drops and blind intersections. But it's groomed.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Next. Bottom of Ridge Run has a sharp curve, over ninety degrees, back over to your left. Take it too tight without a swing to your right first and there could easily be a body there. Absolutely no visibility from above. There's trees in the crook of the turn.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbostedo View Post
 

The run that pops to mind for me is Naked Lady at Snowmass. It has several spots with drops or lips that I would call blind spots, that could hide a fallen or stopped skier (even though it's a pretty easy run). I did a lot of speed checks at the top of these to make sure no one was there.

 

As far as saying something as I ski by, I have a few times - most recently on a narrow part of the Road Runner cat track at Mammoth where a snowboarder was sitting in the middle with his back facing uphill. I saw him from probably 50 yards uphill from him, and actually yelled to him to let him know I was coming, then slowed down and sad something like "That's a really bad place to stop" as I skied by. 

 

All examples of areas of congestion or changes in terrain and visibility  that require more care. Are you saying that a collision would be completely unavoidable if a person decided to stop in any of theses areas? If, say a ten year old girl was just standing there adjusting their goggles, you, as the uphill skier would be unable to see them and unable to stop? You would collide with them, and then the person behind, and the person behind. It would be completely unavoidable? Or are you just skiing too fast to stop in time when you do see them?

 

If you don't want to slow down, then accept the damage you do to yourself and other people. People do stop in places that put them at risk, but you already know that and still speed into them anyway? The most basic rule that protects us is that of the uphill skier giving way to the downhill skier, not matter how stupid they are, how good you think you are, or how gnarly the terrain is. That rule counts all over the mountain, from bunny slopes to expert chutes. You are unlikely to change the tidal wave of other skier's actions, but you can control your own. As the uphill skier, and the better skier, you ultimately control the outcomes in theses situations. Or you can just do your own thing and then blame other people. This attitude of "the idiot was in my line" seems to be common in several of these threads that have popped up recently. They all reflect a lack of patience and frustration for "lesser" skiers getting the they way of "better" skiers. Someone even boasts about jumping over a fallen skier who is blocking his line in a chute? I guess the code doesn't count if a lesser skier got in over his head and is ruining your stoke?

post #55 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 

...changes in terrain and visibility  that require more care. 

 

That's most people's definition of "blind spot".

 

As I said, I always slow down to check those areas just in case - that's why they're blind. I can't see over the lip until I'm on top of it. Given a slow enough speed - say an inch an hour (I know that's not possible - just for arguments sake) - there isn't any terrain anywhere that would be blind. But that's not what people are saying when talking about blind spots. I think maybe you're using a different definition of "blind spot" than most people. 

post #56 of 59

Absolutely agree with you: if you have to ski through a "blind" spot, whether it is a corner, a roller, a knoll, a white-out or just fog, you have to go slowly enough to avoid what's ahead.

 

I tend to turn and look over rollers and sudden changes of slope as I'm skiing along at 90 degrees to the fall line and then either slow or or not before turning in, depending on what I see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Next. Heading from Ptarmigan Bowl over to the base of Chair Five, there's a groomed path through trees, it bends around to the left. I've found an asshole PEEING right as I rounded a fir tree, dead center of the groomed path.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

There's a number of places here where there are trail intersections that the average Joe wouldn't suspect existed and they could get hit. The bottom of 1000 Turns where it meets the junction of Big Ravine and Interstate, for example. Coming down Big Ravine, it's merging from behind and below you, looks like just an embankment and trees. But there's people coming screaming down 1000 Turns who then hang a left across that junction without stopping. You are above their left shoulder and they can't see you. You are heading straight, they are below your field of vision and approaching from behind. The average visitor here will have no idea that trail even exists. I'm watching because I live here and have almost been clipped several times. Both are groomed runs. There's no slow sign, no merge sign. The only reason there's not more carnage is lack of people.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Next. Glory Hole. Runs through a gorge, numerous groomed paths weaving around trees every which way. Tons of sudden drops and blind intersections. But it's groomed.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Next. Bottom of Ridge Run has a sharp curve, over ninety degrees, back over to your left. Take it too tight without a swing to your right first and there could easily be a body there. Absolutely no visibility from above. There's trees in the crook of the turn.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbostedo View Post
 

The run that pops to mind for me is Naked Lady at Snowmass. It has several spots with drops or lips that I would call blind spots, that could hide a fallen or stopped skier (even though it's a pretty easy run). I did a lot of speed checks at the top of these to make sure no one was there.

 

As far as saying something as I ski by, I have a few times - most recently on a narrow part of the Road Runner cat track at Mammoth where a snowboarder was sitting in the middle with his back facing uphill. I saw him from probably 50 yards uphill from him, and actually yelled to him to let him know I was coming, then slowed down and sad something like "That's a really bad place to stop" as I skied by. 

 

All examples of areas of congestion or changes in terrain and visibility  that require more care. Are you saying that a collision would be completely unavoidable if a person decided to stop in any of theses areas? If, say a ten year old girl was just standing there adjusting their goggles, you, as the uphill skier would be unable to see them and unable to stop? You would collide with them, and then the person behind, and the person behind. It would be completely unavoidable? Or are you just skiing too fast to stop in time when you do see them?

 

If you don't want to slow down, then accept the damage you do to yourself and other people. People do stop in places that put them at risk, but you already know that and still speed into them anyway? The most basic rule that protects us is that of the uphill skier giving way to the downhill skier, not matter how stupid they are, how good you think you are, or how gnarly the terrain is. That rule counts all over the mountain, from bunny slopes to expert chutes. You are unlikely to change the tidal wave of other skier's actions, but you can control your own. As the uphill skier, and the better skier, you ultimately control the outcomes in theses situations. Or you can just do your own thing and then blame other people. This attitude of "the idiot was in my line" seems to be common in several of these threads that have popped up recently. They all reflect a lack of patience and frustration for "lesser" skiers getting the they way of "better" skiers. Someone even boasts about jumping over a fallen skier who is blocking his line in a chute? I guess the code doesn't count if a lesser skier got in over his head and is ruining your stoke?

post #57 of 59
Most people at the best of times will think you're an asshole if you try to tell them something. People who work for you think you're an asshole if you try to tell them something and you have the power to fire then!!
post #58 of 59
Neither of us said we hit anyone -- I did not get peed on, either. However, I'm saying that a visitor here might not know that there's about to be a blind spot because they are unfamiliar with the terrain and they can't tell it's coming because... whoa... it's not visible as it's invisible. How do you prepare for situations where the fact that there's a problem looming can't be seen? A couple of those I mentioned (not Glory Hole or the cut through the trees off Ptarmigan) you wouldn't know there was an issue until you're right in it. I know it because I ski here all the time. And I can stop because I already had my life changing event a few years back so I'm decidedly careful. But the average visitor would be no more prepared than if a moose came bursting out of the woods in front of them. Add in our famous fog and flat light. I'm certainly not "blaming other people" here, unlike yourself. I'm saying there is terrain on groomed runs that has blind spots. And because they are not obvious until you're already there, you would think you were just fine. Fortunately for ski patrol, there's rarely sufficient crowds to cause collisions. Sort of like there are "unprotected intersections" right in town here. What's that? An intersection with no Stop signs, Yield signs, lights, etc. Both streets look like they've got the right of way. And yet, you don't see accidents because NO ONE IS COMING. The situation is ripe for an accident, though. What tourist thinks they are in a town that didn't decide at every intersection that one street or the other has the right of way? Or at least put in a 4 way stop? Good thing you're only going 25. And no one is coming.
post #59 of 59
Man, you can still give advice in a genuine helpful manner and make the world better place. And there's a whole spectrum of people not just expert dbags bros vs gapers. You don't want to be either of these people. By definition if you're here here, let's assume you're not a gaper, but let's assume we don't aspire to be just a ski bro otherwise we'd only be exclusively on tgr or newschoolers and not be on epicski.

I don't agree that it's all glib advice a [non-dbag bro] expert can give is to express contempt AND the glib that because gapers are inevitable, there's no way to change them and they won't change so why try to teach them.
Was already discussed there are different ways to have a conversation with a stranger in real life to exchange thoughts, rather then the Internet comment trend of "you are in the wrong, I demand satisfaction". If that's the only way you see the conversation going then it's time for all of us to review what it means to be in a society.

Especially as in it's ten year old girl wiping her goggles, not other grumpy old guy or new-to-skiing frat bro.
Edited by raytseng - 4/23/16 at 11:12am
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Safety Warning or Mind Your Own Business?