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Peak Pass vs. Max Pass - comparison for NYC area skiiers - Page 2

post #31 of 56
I don't know if that translates well, but I know I'm not the only person who feels that about Sugarbusb versus Jay.
post #32 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Keller View Post


Jay Peak is in the economically depressed part of Vermont. The Mad River Valley is quaint.

Also, to me, Sugarbush feels rustic, even on-piste, compared to Stowe. Several of my friends agree. As for Jay, since I do not stay on mountain, he fancy new Hotel and Waterpark do not affect the main lodge, the slow lifts, the run down tram, and the things that actually matter to me in a base area.

 

Makes more sense now, in respect to Jay. The NEK is definitely... bleak. Don't really understand the Stowe/Sbush rustic feel, but that's an opinion thing. For my eyes, Mansfield Base is way more rustic than Lincoln Peak Village, and Goat and Starr are about as classically rustic New England trails as you can find this side of MRG. But hey, that's just me. 

post #33 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post

Makes more sense now, in respect to Jay. The NEK is definitely... bleak. Don't really understand the Stowe/Sbush rustic feel, but that's an opinion thing. For my eyes, Mansfield Base is way more rustic than Lincoln Peak Village, and Goat and Starr are about as classically rustic New England trails as you can find this side of MRG. But hey, that's just me. 

Yeah. Like I said, it's hard to describe. I think a lot has to do with the feel of Stowe (the town) versus Waitsfield, and he surrounding region.

Mind you, I love Stowe, and chose it for my third day on the MCP this year.
post #34 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Keller View Post

Yeah. Like I said, it's hard to describe. I think a lot has to do with the feel of Stowe (the town) versus Waitsfield, and he surrounding region.

Mind you, I love Stowe, and chose it for my third day on the MCP this year.

Ah yes. Towns are a different fish altogether. Stowe town is definitely a different flavor from the MRV. They're both better than the Killington Access road though. Eeek.
post #35 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post


Ah yes. Towns are a different fish altogether. Stowe town is definitely a different flavor from the MRV. They're both better than the Killington Access road though. Eeek.

Almost anything is better than anything to do with Killington. Eeek is right.

post #36 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis256 View Post
 

Unfortunately Peak Resorts are having financial issues as well...:mad

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Keller View Post
 

One can dream right?

 

Ugh.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Keller View Post
 

At least it seems the majority of theirs is related to a bad season, rather than embezlement?

Peaks problems are not necessarily caused by a bad season. Their problems exist because of the $118m in debt they are carrying mostly at high interest rates (ASC anyone). Also their stock is worth about 1/3 the price it was initially offered at ($9 vs $3 today) & pays a very high dividend rate (about 17%). If they cut the dividend the stock would be even lower than it is now.

post #37 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post


Ah yes. Towns are a different fish altogether. Stowe town is definitely a different flavor from the MRV. They're both better than the Killington Access road though. Eeek.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Keller View Post
 

Almost anything is better than anything to do with Killington. Eeek is right.

I happen to like Killington. I don't hang out on the access road though.

post #38 of 56
Many prople
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamboat1 View Post


I happen to like Killington. I don't hang out on the access road though.

Many people do. I don't. I've been a few times, and it just feels like a bigger Hunter.
post #39 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamboat1 View Post




Peaks problems are not necessarily caused by a bad season. Their problems exist because of the $118m in debt they are carrying mostly at high interest rates (ASC anyone). Also their stock is worth about 1/3 the price it was initially offered at ($9 vs $3 today) & pays a very high dividend rate (about 17%). If they cut the dividend the stock would be even lower than it is now.

Also related to the delays in them receiving their EB-5 funds, which are apparently two years behind.
post #40 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Keller View Post
 

Almost anything is better than anything to do with Killington. Eeek is right.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Keller View Post

Many prople
Many people do. I don't. I've been a few times, and it just feels like a bigger Hunter.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steamboat1 View Post
 

 

 

I happen to like Killington. I don't hang out on the access road though.

Killington is two distinctly different areas weekends & weekdays. It's a pleasure during the week with no crowds & lots of open areas to explore.

 

I gave up on Hunter years ago.

post #41 of 56
Yeah, Killington Rd has plenty of good local folks there running their businesses. Fairly mellow weekdays. Just full of party-hearty types from NY and NJ on weekends. Who pay for the mellow weekdays, y'know.
post #42 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Yeah, Killington Rd has plenty of good local folks there running their businesses. Fairly mellow weekdays. Just full of party-hearty types from NY and NJ on weekends. Who pay for the mellow weekdays, y'know.

My aversion to Killington Rd isn't just the people that are there on the weekends. I have literally never skied Killington on a weekend day. When I lived in Ludlow, I went up to the Pickle Barrel for a couple of shows on weekend nights, so I saw the crowd. More so its that Killington Rd is built for that crowd. Last time I was there was at the end this March, on a Tuesday. I remember looking at the giant shops and bars and restaurants all up and down the road. Many of the bars/restaurants had chintzy decorations and signage, everything is corporate, sterile, lacks any character or soul. Even the Pickle Barrel and Wobbly Barn, their rusticness seems forced. 

 

My issue with Killington is that it's not really Vermont. It's what people from NYC would make Vermont into. There was a movement a decade ago for Killington to secede from Vermont, and it made sense. Killington doesn't fit in. If that's what you like, there's nothing wrong with that. But personally, I moved away from an urban environment, I didn't want to bring it with me. 

post #43 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamboat1 View Post

 

 

Peaks problems are not necessarily caused by a bad season. Their problems exist because of the $118m in debt they are carrying mostly at high interest rates (ASC anyone). Also their stock is worth about 1/3 the price it was initially offered at ($9 vs $3 today) & pays a very high dividend rate (about 17%). If they cut the dividend the stock would be even lower than it is now.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Keller View Post


Also related to the delays in them receiving their EB-5 funds, which are apparently two years behind.

http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=433

 

Cash Strapped Peak Resorts May Be Forced to Discontinue Dividends
Ski area operator is facing mounting debt and EB-5 issues.
Sunday, May 8, 2016, NewEnglandSkiIndustry.com

Facing mounting debt, EB-5 delays, and a bad winter, Peak Resorts is scrambling to make ends meet.

EPR Properties Loan Inquiry
In its Q1 earnings call on April 28, EPR Properties announced "we were approached by Peak to consider a secured term loan."

EPR Properties has provided nearly $115 million in long term debt Peak Resorts, and has a first right of refusal on future financing. The vast majority of the debt carries an interest rate in excess of 10%.

According to EPR, "We indicated that any loan request considered by EPR will be a maximum of $10 million and also require a suspension of all dividends to common shareholders of Peak until the full repayment of the loan among other conditions."

Peak Resorts' most recent quarterly dividend of $0.1375 per share was issued on February 24, at a total cost of $1.9 million. The company's stock (NASDAQ: SKIS) is currently trading at $3.15 per share, a sharp drop from its $9 per share initial public offering 18 months ago.

EPR also disclosed that "Peak has fully funded their off season reserve to EPR" pursuant to its lease terms.

Previously Reported Financial Issues
As first reported on NewEnglandSkiIndustry.com News on April 10, financial issues resulted in Peak Resorts recently letting go long time full time, year round employees at multiple ski areas. In addition, furloughs have been instituted. The publicly traded ski corporation's portfolio includes Attitash, Crotched, Mount Snow, and Wildcat.

Meanwhile, the West Lake snowmaking project is in jeopardy due to EB-5 delays. Mount Snow broke ground on the project in May 2015, reportedly fronting $12 million with the expectation that at least $30 million of EB-5 immigrant investor funds would be released from escrow last year. With the Jay Peak-Q Burke alleged EB-5 Ponzi scheme grabbing national headlines, it is not known when Mount Snow's $52 million of EB-5 funds will be released from escrow.

Mount Snow has been reportedly using Senator Patrick Leahy's office to put pressure on the EB-5 situation. Senator Leahy has come under fire in recent weeks due to his involvement with the Jay Peak-Q Burke situation, including joining Jay Peak officials on fundraising junkets, lobbying for Jay Peak, and accepting $10,800 in contribution from Jay Peak management. After championing the EB-5 program and subsequent extensions, Senator Leahy is now calling for reform or the termination of the EB-5 program.

While some logging and snowmaking pipe welding activities have taken place at Mount Snow this spring, the West Lake snowmaking project cannot be completed until the EB-5 situation is remedied.

Meanwhile, after purchasing Hunter Mountain for $36.8 million and the poor 2015-16 season, Peak Resorts' free cash account was nearly halved year to year by the end of January.

When speaking about the Mount Snow EB-5 situation, Mount Snow President Dick Deutsch stated, "I’m very concerned. I’d be foolish not to be concerned."

Fiscal Year End
Peak Resorts fiscal year ended on April 30, coinciding with the early discount deadline on its Peak Pass offering. Fiscal year results are expected to be announced in July.

post #44 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post
 

There was a movement a decade ago for Killington to secede from Vermont, and it made sense. Killington doesn't fit in.  

The movement was because of the high tax rate in VT. as opposed to NH. Actually I think it was just to send a message to VT. I don't think Killington ever seriously thought they could secede.

post #45 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post
 

My aversion to Killington Rd isn't just the people that are there on the weekends. I have literally never skied Killington on a weekend day. When I lived in Ludlow, I went up to the Pickle Barrel for a couple of shows on weekend nights, so I saw the crowd. More so its that Killington Rd is built for that crowd. Last time I was there was at the end this March, on a Tuesday. I remember looking at the giant shops and bars and restaurants all up and down the road. Many of the bars/restaurants had chintzy decorations and signage, everything is corporate, sterile, lacks any character or soul. Even the Pickle Barrel and Wobbly Barn, their rusticness seems forced. 

 

My issue with Killington is that it's not really Vermont. It's what people from NYC would make Vermont into. There was a movement a decade ago for Killington to secede from Vermont, and it made sense. Killington doesn't fit in. If that's what you like, there's nothing wrong with that. But personally, I moved away from an urban environment, I didn't want to bring it with me. 

 

I guess I can stomach Killington being a NY'er and all.  But I agree that it's a totally different animal wknds vs. wkdays.  If I'm going to ski the area on a wknd, it'll probably be at Pico.  And I don't mind the access road.  It's nice having a bunch of places nearby to have something to eat or drink...during the week that is.  Now if they could just build a subway line to all of those places. ;)

 

Haven't skied Stowe yet but Sugarbush is also my favorite in VT as is the Mad River Valley. 

 

Terrain-wise I have no problem with Kton.  I think it's a great mountain to ski with varied and challenging terrain.  I also think they do a good job with their snowmaking.  My wife and I skied a wknd there last year early season in December.  It was in the 50's and a small part of the mountain was open but what was open skied great.  It was like soft, spring skiing.  Wound up having a really fun time.

 

If you're looking at it from a NY'ers perspective who considers himself a serious skier, Kton is the closest mountain with the opportunity for the best skiing.  Nothing wrong with Mt. Snow.  I kind of like it and feel like I'm better than I am when I go.  Never skied Okemo or Stratton but I'm sure they can be fun too.

 

5 hours for a weekend trip is doable.  It's really tough to justify that extra hour into the Mad River Valley most of the times.  I'm glad there's a mountain like Kton within striking distance to NYC.

post #46 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by hespeler View Post

 

5 hours for a weekend trip is doable.  It's really tough to justify that extra hour into the Mad River Valley most of the times.  I'm glad there's a mountain like Kton within striking distance to NYC.

 

Why do you think we put Killington where it is? Filters out most of the NY/NJ weekend crowd, leaves the good stuff for us. :devil:

post #47 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post
 

 

Why do you think we put Killington where it is? Filters out most of the NY/NJ weekend crowd, leaves the good stuff for us. :devil:


I hear ya.  But SB and Stowe aren't exactly ghost towns on the weekends.  Guess you're not competing with the other clientele to keep the Pats and Bruins games on the tv at Apres...

 

I have a buddy that moved to Boston.  He skis mainly at SB and says it's worth it to drive the extra hour.  Funny he didn't used to say that when he lived in NY.

post #48 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by hespeler View Post
 


I hear ya.  But SB and Stowe aren't exactly ghost towns on the weekends.  Guess you're not competing with the other clientele to keep the Pats and Bruins games on the tv at Apres...

 

I have a buddy that moved to Boston.  He skis mainly at SB and says it's worth it to drive the extra hour.  Funny he didn't used to say that when he lived in NY.

Queens, NY here. Sugarbush is absolutely worth the extra hour drive in my opinion. So is Stowe. Jay is the one that is hard to justify, unless its a good snow year.

post #49 of 56

Getting back to the OP's question being that I'm already a Killington mid week passholder when Killington changed their policy a couple of weeks ago allowing mid week passholders to purchase the Max Pass add on it was a no brainer for me. Black out & college pass holders can purchase the add on now too, before it was only unlimited passholders who were allowed. Even if I only use the 5 days each at Okemo & Stratton which are close to Killington it still comes out to only $30 a day to ski them with the Max Pass add on. I fully intend to use it at least a few times at the NH resorts to. A spring trip up to Sugarloaf with a stop at Sunday River is also in my plans making the pass an even better deal. In fact I might have a hard time getting my Killington pass per day cost lower than the per day cost of the Max Pass add on. Throw in a day trip or two to Mountain Creek (haven't been in years) & you can see what I'm saying. Living in NYC (Brooklyn) Killington ls less than a 5 hr. drive which I do all the time anyway. Having Okemo & Stratton to stop at on my way up or back would knock about an hour off that trip which is an added benefit. I didn't even mention the opportunities opened up to me to ski out west (U.S. & Canada) plus the eastern Canadian resorts available on the card, now three with the addition of Mt. Sainte Anne & Stoneham plus Tremblant. Like I said the decision was a no brainer.

post #50 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Keller View Post
 

Queens, NY here. Sugarbush is absolutely worth the extra hour drive in my opinion. So is Stowe. Jay is the one that is hard to justify, unless its a good snow year.


From Queens I would probably do it more regularly, I agree.  Coming from further out on the Island, it's tough.  I have good friends who ski SB regularly and do make it up there at least once a year.

 

And yes that mid-week Kton pass with the MAX Pass add-on is a great option.

post #51 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by hespeler View Post


From Queens I would probably do it more regularly, I agree.  Coming from further out on the Island, it's tough.  I have good friends who ski SB regularly and do make it up there at least once a year.

And yes that mid-week Kton pass with the MAX Pass add-on is a great option.

Yeah. I can understand that. I wouldn't want to move further east than where I live, because it adds that much more time to get to the mountains. Already, when I want to day trip, it's 2.5 to the Catskills, and 4-5 to southern Vermont. Adding another 30-60 minutes would change where I ski.
post #52 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by hespeler View Post
 


I hear ya.  But SB and Stowe aren't exactly ghost towns on the weekends.  Guess you're not competing with the other clientele to keep the Pats and Bruins games on the tv at Apres...

 

I have a buddy that moved to Boston.  He skis mainly at SB and says it's worth it to drive the extra hour.  Funny he didn't used to say that when he lived in NY.

 

If he's taking an extra hour to get to Sugarbush from Boston as opposed to Killington, I think he may be getting lost. Boston/Killington is a touch over 3 hours. Boston/Sugarbush is a touch under 3.5. It's about a 15 minute actual difference, because to get to Sugarbush, you're spending a lot more time on the interstate, a lot less on secondary state roads. Same deal with Stowe, which is still less than a half hour further than Killington. 

 

But yeah, there are way more MA license plates in the parking lot at Stowe than there are NY or NJ. Which I'm fine with. 

post #53 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post
 

 

If he's taking an extra hour to get to Sugarbush from Boston as opposed to Killington, I think he may be getting lost. Boston/Killington is a touch over 3 hours. Boston/Sugarbush is a touch under 3.5. It's about a 15 minute actual difference, because to get to Sugarbush, you're spending a lot more time on the interstate, a lot less on secondary state roads. Same deal with Stowe, which is still less than a half hour further than Killington. 

 

But yeah, there are way more MA license plates in the parking lot at Stowe than there are NY or NJ. Which I'm fine with. 


No I meant he says it's worth the extra hour for me from NY.  Easy for him to say now...

post #54 of 56
Neither Sugarbush or Stowe are on the Max Pass or Peak Pass so why are they being discussed in this thread?
post #55 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamboat1 View Post


Thread drift. It's a thing.
post #56 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamboat1 View Post
 
Neither Sugarbush or Stowe are on the Max Pass or Peak Pass so why are they being discussed in this thread?


People rarely remember the thread title or Post #1 by Page 2, or even Post #10.  Some people might consider your comments in Post #43 a bit off-topic.  But it really doesn't matter. :)

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