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Vail Corp Mountain Safety warning policy - Breck violation - Page 2

Poll Results: Did Breck Mountain Safety...

 
  • 64% (24)
    handle the situation appropriately and professionally
  • 32% (12)
    react too leniently; should have pulled his pass
  • 2% (1)
    go overboard and should only stop those who are out of control and endangering others
37 Total Votes  
post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by raytseng View Post


Think about it for more than 2 seconds from the other perspective.
1) Even if you believe VAIL is a money grubbing evil corporation, then would they waste money buying a SIGN, setting it up and taking it down every single day and paying for an employee to wait and watch there just to harsh your buzz?  that makes no sense.

2) Same goes for the oh just fix that rock.  Do you really think if it were that simple the guy who has to setup the sign every single morning at 8AM or the guy taking it down at 4pm wouldn't have figured that out?  

1) Evil, I wouldn't say that. Arrogant, money grubbing, yes. Our mountain is run much more poorly since Vail came in. All the people I ski with, none of them like Vail. Every local I talk with on the lift, they don't like Vail either. They have very strong opinions on this too. People here wish Vail had stayed out of PC.

Think about this for more than 2 seconds........

2) A bump right across a run. Not even much of a bump, just enough to get you in the air a couple inches at moderate speed. The kid wasn't going very fast and hardly came off the ground. But they don't want none of that stuff, and badly enough to put up a sign every day and have someone watching. Stupid. Just get rid of it. If there's dirt underneath, dirt is real easy to push around. You mention "that rock." I said "if it's the top of a boulder", and you're assuming that's what it is. If rock.....it's not hard to flatten the tip of a rock and real easy to push dirt around around it. Getting rid of a bump isn't difficult. It wouldn't be they guy setting up the sign who'd do it. I've watched our race hill be considerably re-contoured a couple times. Last summer I watched tractors cut a new run on top of a hill at the Canyons.. And that whole whole area at the bottom of King Con run and under Miner's Camp lodge has been very extensively changed......both filled and flattened. A bump across the run with a "no jumping sign" and someone watching? Sheesh.

The yellow jacket was doing his job. We have those guys here a PC also.
post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utahski View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raytseng View Post

2) Same goes for the oh just fix that rock.  Do you really think if it were that simple the guy who has to setup the sign every single morning at 8AM or the guy taking it down at 4pm wouldn't have figured that out?  


2) A bump right across a run. Not even much of a bump, just enough to get you in the air a couple inches at moderate speed. The kid wasn't going very fast and hardly came off the ground. But they don't want none of that stuff, and badly enough to put up a sign every day and have someone watching. Stupid. Just get rid of it. If there's dirt underneath, dirt is real easy to push around. You mention "that rock." I said "if it's the top of a boulder", and you're assuming that's what it is. If rock.....it's not hard to flatten the tip of a rock and real easy to push dirt around around it. Getting rid of a bump isn't difficult. It wouldn't be they guy setting up the sign who'd do it. I've watched our race hill be considerably re-contoured a couple times. Last summer I watched tractors cut a new run on top of a hill at the Canyons.. And that whole whole area at the bottom of King Con run and under Miner's Camp lodge has been very extensively changed......both filled and flattened. A bump across the run with a "no jumping sign" and someone watching? Sheesh.
 

Not a rock. It's a road. Junior didn't get much air, but you could air that big if you wanted to. It's not about "Hey you kids, no jumping!", it's about not blazing over that blind rise. Historically, many collisions there.

post #33 of 46
They can't level the road berm or blow extra snow there? Seems pretty simple.
post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

They can't level the road berm or blow extra snow there? Seems pretty simple.


I don't see the road being re-graded, but I'd say that any year that we have excess water allotment to use up, we'd be better off blowing it right there and flattening that out.

post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utahski View Post

1) Evil, I wouldn't say that. Arrogant, money grubbing, yes. Our mountain is run much more poorly since Vail came in. All the people I ski with, none of them like Vail. Every local I talk with on the lift, they don't like Vail either. They have very strong opinions on this too. People here wish Vail had stayed out of PC.

Think about this for more than 2 seconds........

 

Yeah, change is hard. If you're happy with the way things are, any change is probably negative, at least at first. And for locals, maybe permanently. If you're a local at Bachelor, or Stevens, or Whitefish, or Targhee - any mountain known for low crowds, or local vibe, or good conditions, etc. having a major change geared at changing the things you like is probably pretty crappy.

 

But I suspect, knowing the other resorts Vail has run, that visitors will eventually be happier, and there will be more of them, paying more money. Which is really the reason - for better or for worse - that most ski resorts exist. 

post #36 of 46
I would like to loop back to the OP when it comes time for your son to start driving, get him a safe lame car like a low powered volvo and full insurance. This video you gets a sense of his mental process at this stage of his life when nobody's watching. I'm not saying your son is overly immature, his judgment is probably exactly average for a teenage male, but the judgment of an average teenage male is not much to be proud of. And it's is why the accident statistics and teenager car insurance premiums are what they are...
post #37 of 46
Agreed that the "yellow jacket" handled that situation well. As someone who lives at northgnar and skis 70+ days a year there I completely understand why they are posted where they are. It would be a full on shitshow if they weren't around the choke points. I've been stopped 2x in the past few years for a "speed check" and realize that as always respect gets respect. Usually they know from seeing you around that your in full control but just want to give you a little reminder of how fast your going..
post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric267 View Post

Agreed that the "yellow jacket" handled that situation well. As someone who lives at northgnar and skis 70+ days a year there I completely understand why they are posted where they are. It would be a full on shitshow if they weren't around the choke points. I've been stopped 2x in the past few years for a "speed check" and realize that as always respect gets respect. Usually they know from seeing you around that your in full control but just want to give you a little reminder of how fast your going..

Flatstar is the only place I've ever been flagged for speeding. 

post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by graham418 View Post

That was some jump. I had to watch the video several times just to see it.  I think the Man in the Yellow Jacket gave a perfectly appropriate response. I dont think that it was enough of an infraction to pull a pass, but a warning, enough to put the fear of god in him is probably all that is needed to keep him from doing it again. 
I do have to wonder, though, if it is a known danger spot where people have been injured before ,why they dont do something to correct that. Perhaps grading the bump right out of there if they dont want skiers to jump. Kids just want to jump, right?

It's not a "bump", it's a rock band that goes across several slopes and gets used as a road, both in summer and winter. The video totally misses how blind the landing area is below that ridge, which has more than one sign along it. Breck has several places where rock bands create long ridges. Folks frequently fall on the pitch just below that ridge and can easily be hit by someone who can't see them until after they've committed to jumping. That's why there are "NO JUMPING" signs. Breck also has beginner, intermediate and expert terrain parks where"kids" can go jump without endangering anyone but themselves. You can get two feet off the snow or 40.
post #40 of 46

I'm surprised there isn't a few pieces of fencing along there to help remind people to slow down.  I've seen that at other resorts in similar areas...

post #41 of 46

but they aren't looking to limit speed on this feature, just jumps.  

Don't doubt that vail resorts has a bulk discount on slow signs and fencing, they have no shortage of them. 

post #42 of 46

But if visibility is limited then speed should be as well, correct?

post #43 of 46
Well sure if everyone is going 5mph then there won't be catastrophic accidents, but the code says stay in control not ski slow. So there middle ground and not just the black/white extremes of it's either only a slow zone or no restrictions go mach speed zone.

So here, if you don't catch air and have skis on the snow that's enough of a rule to keep skier in enough control to avoid accidents that they've had historicslly at this feature.

Give people some credit. They spent money on a sign they would've put some thought whether to print up a no jumping sign versus a slow sign.
post #44 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by raytseng View Post
 

but they aren't looking to limit speed on this feature, just jumps. 

 

Well if you're going fast enough, you're going to jump whether you want to or not... so they are kinda, sorta limiting speed too. 

post #45 of 46

To address the OP... I would just operate under the assumption that the infractions are tracked. I most certainly would let your son operate under that assumption. As far as the yellow jacket, he was professional and acted appropriately. He would have been well within the bounds of appropriate action to pull your son's pass then and there, especially, since he clearly heard what your son said. 

post #46 of 46

If I was the patroller/yellow jacket, I would have let him go with a warning because he didn't catch much air and was pretty polite when stopped.  Any attitude from him and I would have pulled the pass.  If I had heard his comments about how the sign was stupid before he jumped it, I might have been a bit tougher him.  I'm not too impressed with his attitude about the sign or his weak jump.  If you're going to hit something you're not supposed to, at least nail it.  Better yet go jump somewhere more appropriate. I wasn't the most responsible or thoughtful teenager, so I'm not singling him out as a "bad" kid.

 

The video doesn't really show that spot as being blind or dangerous and I've never been there.  I do know some spots on my mountain that are dangerous in the way that this one is said to be.  One of these spots on my mountain was the scene of a fatality when a friend of mine struck and killed a young girl he couldn't see below the roll over.  The danger is real and I've tried to learn from his mistake.

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