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Junior SG skis questions

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Hello, i have a friend who is a ski instructor and former athlete and he has been my source for skis in the last years, he's selling a pair of used Fischer RC4 SG skis for juniors, 33m radius and 196cm length, with z13 bindings.

I already run on GS 23m radius and can manage them well for an amateur.
Given the fact that he asks 100usd for them i am curious if they are radically different from my gs fis skis?

I think they fit me well because being junior skis they are a softer flex, and are more manageable than a stock GS 35m.

I know i will never use their full potential on a public slope and my summary question is if they are skiable in a GS freeski manner

Thanks!













post #2 of 14
@ $100 you can't go too far wrong. BUT. Remember, this is a junior ski and a SG ski is going to be a softer flex to start with so if you are over 140 ish pounds you will find it folding up a bit under you and lacking beef. It will ski completely differently to a 35 m GS ski. Remember it is the flex on a race ski that is much more important than radius
post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
I am at 160 pounds now and i found online that this ski is for a junior because of the shorter length .
My current ski is a women's race stock GS ski 23m radius...being an older rule ski i guess it's softer than a current 35 meter one.

With the current ski i don't have any issues on the slopes, recreationally speaking,because i don't do gates, i just like the speed and the angles smile.gif
post #4 of 14


at 160# i think you might be disappointed with it if you start pushing it 

post #5 of 14

I'd wager it'll be too soft for you when pushed or up to speed....

 

I have the same issues with Jr "FIS" GS skis, opting for the Women's FIS skis instead.

post #6 of 14
It will work for you if you first lose 40 pounds.
post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaprilia View Post

I am at 160 pounds now and i found online that this ski is for a junior because of the shorter length .
My current ski is a women's race stock GS ski 23m radius...being an older rule ski i guess it's softer than a current 35 meter one.

With the current ski i don't have any issues on the slopes, recreationally speaking,because i don't do gates, i just like the speed and the angles smile.gif

 

As a FYI, the 23m skis are not softer than the 35m.  Radius has little to so with stiffness......however I do see the 35m to ski softer than the 23m to assist athlete with cranking those turns.

Early day larger radius skis I have read were a beast, but the new ones with tweaks ski much easier.

 

OEMs can make both 23 and 35m skis as soft or stiff as they want.   Finding larger radius softer however.

post #8 of 14
I'll make a couple of comments, having had a lot of junior SG ski in the house over some fairly recent years. First, they are purpose built, for SG. They are not designed to ski GS. And while u16 SG sets these days can offer resemble a men's FIS GS set, as often as not they're not.

The skis are made to made deliberate longer turns...entirely different movement. As a result, the tip shape, the tail shape, and the layup is different. And yes, at that length built for a smaller pilot.

But....I wouldn't assume they are a 33M ski. Note that they are marked as greater than 33M, the rule at the time. I would venture to say that they might be more like 40M, in reality.

A lot of companies struggled to make good SG skis in this size range. Many were a bear to ski...pretty unresponsive. Others, as SS has noted were made of a light layup, to track and glide (youth SG tends to reward that at the bottom third of most courses).
A bigger person will fold them,

Last.....pretty easy to bend them if not on a speed type hill. Of course, then can often be bent back by a pro.

Not ideal. Bindings are worth close to the price, though!

Don't mean to be a downer.......
post #9 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muleski View Post

First, they are purpose built, for SG. They are not designed to ski GS. 

The skis are made to made deliberate longer turns...entirely different movement. As a result, the tip shape, the tail shape, and the layup is different. And yes, at that length built for a smaller pilot.

But....I wouldn't assume they are a 33M ski. Note that they are marked as greater than 33M, the rule at the time. I would venture to say that they might be more like 40M, in reality.
 

All of this ^^^^. The fact that coaches often allow athletes to use GS skis on SG courses does not mean SG skis are just longer GS's. First time my son was on his SG's he remarked how different they were than his GS's. Coaches taught him a different style of turn, different set-up at the top, the whole nine yards. Very different flex. And> 33 m is like 40 IME yes.

 

I would not want to ski a SG, even a U16 or female WC model, on any recreational slope. They do not react well to abrupt changes of direction or evasive maneuvers. 

post #10 of 14
Thread Starter 

i'll go and see them today, i wouldn't have considered them if they weren't so cheap.

i found all sorts of GS skis on ebay, but the transport cost is huge for my taste, something in the range of 180-300$ for a ski with a price of 250$

 

the guy has a pair of new 35m GS dynastars, i'll compare the flex and shape with those

 

thanks for the advice, i remember when i found the women's FIS GS 23m some said that their radius is too large for a public slope, but after skiing them this season i found out they are a joy to handle

 

i don't think they ski radically different than a FIS GS ski on a normal slope, but certainly on a track they are different and useless on a GS course

post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaprilia View Post
 

i'll go and see them today, i wouldn't have considered them if they weren't so cheap.

 

thanks for the advice, i remember when i found the women's FIS GS 23m some said that their radius is too large for a public slope, but after skiing them this season i found out they are a joy to handle

 

i don't think they ski radically different than a FIS GS ski on a normal slope, but certainly on a track they are different and useless on a GS course

Respect your right to do anything you want, obviously, and yeah, I have a weakness for great deals, too. That's why my rock skis aren't typically my worn down normals, but goofy cheap 4-year old new closeouts.

 

But that said, your analogy isn't correct. As several of us have said, a speed ski - SG or DH - is not a GS ski with a longer radius. The flex pattern and sidecut shape are different. The construction is different. It's damper, slower to react, is all about setting up a turn very high and early, tipping, and riding the ski through the G's. Look at videos of WC racers doing each event and you'll see. Only if this is a junior length, and you're a normal sized male, it'll morph from still being sluggish at normal rec speeds to being overreactive at race speed.

 

Finally, USD 100 is a fair amount of money for a used pair of junior SG skis and bindings. More than I'd pay here. My suggestion would be to look around for a pair of used women's FIS GS skis at 185 cm give or take with a more modern radius. Or just be happy with your U16 GS; how often do you want to average 90 kph on a public slope? 

post #12 of 14

Here's another issue. I may have mentioned that my daughter raced on a very similar SG ski, as a J3 {14}, at about 125 lbs. Worked fine. But at least one pair. We've already pointed out. This is a kid's SG ski. A speed ski. Not even close to a GS ski. 

 

The binding is a Junior binding. As I recall Fisher, Elan, and he others with Tyrolia bindings had their race reps recommending it for skiers under 100 pounds. 

Forget the DIN "range". This was a junior binding. I bet that at that point, my daughter raced speed at a DIN of about 10. GS at about an 8. It's not an adult binding. 

 

There's a reason they are $100. They are probably a dog slow pair of skis that hasn't been passed down. The fast skis get used tip they are deal. I heard this winter that a kid won a USSA SG on a air of my daughter's old skis that she was provided with 10 seasons ago! Fast skis.

 

A 23M, 183cm or so women's FIS ski is a completely different deal, and could well be a very fun, very good ski for the OP. 

 

Don't get hung up on the "flex", the radius {which is at least 40M}, the DIN range on the binding. Using this for anything other than it's intended purpose makes zero sense. None. 

 

Lot of other choices. The market for older FIS women's skis isn't all that active, shall we say. 

 

Good luck!

post #13 of 14
At the speeds needed for a SG ski to be skiable, even JR versions, they're normally not a good idea on public slopes. You can't reallt go slow or skid turns. My daughter who's 13 yrs old was on 186 Rossi JR:s this season and she and her club friends regularly hit 50+ mph in course on those. She'll be on 195 r33 next.
post #14 of 14
Thread Starter 

I bought the skis, for 80 USD in the end, they are stiffer than i expected, and i could compare the stiffness with a brand new pair of dynastar GS 195, i would say they were 90% the stiffness of the Dynastar, and they weigh 8.5 kg, the dynastar is heavier but i think because of the Look bindings...using a ruler i found the measurements are similar, the dynastar has the tip a bit narrower.

 

I use the Volkls at the minimum DIN, 11, and they snapped every time i crashed

i will leave the fischer bindings at 8 for start, not knowing the ski yet, it's interesting that their heel also rotates sideways.

 

In my country i can't find a cheap 35m GS ski, because there are few racers and the only good deals i got were 2 pairs of 23m radius Volkl Racetiger and Rossignol Radical, used by Edit Miklos, a WC athlete, some years ago ( 150 usd for the Volkls with Comp 20 bindings and 70 usd for the rossi with plate only, no bindings ), and i don't think i will find a 20ish radius anymore because they are not legal since 2012.

 

So basically i chose them because of the limited market offer in my area, and i am very happy with the way the volkl skis, i took care of them this season, and got enough skill to repair the bases after some rocks and to sharpen and wax them properly, so if i take care they should last some time more, even if the edges and bases are thin.

 

All in all these 80 usd were spent just out of curiosity for a larger radius ski, reading all you said i am aware it is not the same thing as a true GS, but neither am i a true athlete...i just have the motivation to improve my skills and i really feel i have improved this season.

 

If sometimes in the future i will find a true GS ski for a cheap price, i'll go for it, but for now there aren't even any for sale around here.

i have a friend who is a young racer and in the next 2 years he wants to change his nordica GS and he said he will sell it to me for a good price if the sponsor will let him keep the ski

 

thanks for all the explanations, with this forum i am learning something new every time i read a new topic :)

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