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will twin tip park skis hinder the kid's carving/groomer development?

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
My 7 year old has finally gotten to the point of skiing almost entirely parallel (thanks to previous thread in this forum). tho he still has a really wide stance and will still occasionally pizza on turn initiation. Anyway, we are looking at end of season deals on past models of skis for him and I was wondering at this point if it mattered at all if he has 'park skis' or 'groomer skis'. For instance, the difference between rossignol scan jr and line superhero jr. the scan is much narrower at 68cm waist while the superhero would be 80cm waist. Would that impact development or learning either way?

thanks

- kal

Mod note: moved to Ski Gear
post #2 of 12

Did you find your 7yo new skis yet?

post #3 of 12

Can't believe I missed this.

 

Yes, if he is skiing on hard snow 80+ mm wide skis will impede his learning carving abilities, but not so much if he is skiing on soft snow.

However sub 70 mm skis will impede his park skiing.  If he is enjoying park skiing, and doing tricks off jumps it is probably more important to get him the 80 mm wide skis, otherwise he will be catching edges much more often when not making perfect landings doing tricks off jumps.

 

No matter what he does, he will have lots of time to catch up on other areas; it's all good.

 

Buy him the skis for what he likes to do most, or buy him two sets.

post #4 of 12
Assuming you mean mm not cm, the answer still is yes. Get him the narrower, groomer skis on which he can really learn to ski properly. Park can come later if that's what he decides he wants to do.
post #5 of 12
I disagree. Having tails that will release based on modulating friction will greatly increase confidence in parallel skiing without developing protective stem habits that may come from catchy tails.

It has nothing to do with park. It is easier to learn upper and lower body separation without tails that want to hold an arc. Work back to carving from there. Asking young kids to manage full length camber with flat tails can mean habits that are very difficult to undue down the road. Assuming of course we aren't talking about ice skiing.
post #6 of 12
Volkl Pyra (they also make a boy's version) twin tips at 78mm for our 9 YO.
She rocks them!!!
This is her in a skier cross at Holiday Valley.
She gets Platinum medals in the NASTAR course every time.

post #7 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

Can't believe I missed this.

 

Yes, if he is skiing on hard snow 80+ mm wide skis will impede his learning carving abilities, but not so much if he is skiing on soft snow.

However sub 70 mm skis will impede his park skiing.  If he is enjoying park skiing, and doing tricks off jumps it is probably more important to get him the 80 mm wide skis, otherwise he will be catching edges much more often when not making perfect landings doing tricks off jumps.

 

No matter what he does, he will have lots of time to catch up on other areas; it's all good.

 

Buy him the skis for what he likes to do most, or buy him two sets.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NayBreak View Post

I disagree. Having tails that will release based on modulating friction will greatly increase confidence in parallel skiing without developing protective stem habits that may come from catchy tails.

It has nothing to do with park. It is easier to learn upper and lower body separation without tails that want to hold an arc. Work back to carving from there. Asking young kids to manage full length camber with flat tails can mean habits that are very difficult to undue down the road. Assuming of course we aren't talking about ice skiing.

I like these answers.

post #8 of 12

Park skis. He's 7. They will just be more fun to ski and more confidence inspiring for things 7 year olds want to do. Carving will be inhibited with park skis but I think he will have more fun on them.

post #9 of 12

Depends on your objectives.  I personally think wider does impede learning to crank carving turns and properly pressuring their turns.  Much like adults they can "look" like they are doing ok but really don't have any clue how to actually carve their turns.  That may or may not matter to you.  I disagree with a previous poster about it being better to learn angulation/separation with tails that release easily.....if the tail releases too easily they never learn to pressure their skis properly and load/unload the ski, getting energy from the tails, unweighting, etc.  Again may or may not matter to you given most skiers don't seem to do this properly anyways.

 

I'm of the mindset that kids should learn to properly arc their turns first before moving to a wider ski.  However my daughter is a racer so that arc and turn pressure part is important to nail down.   

As for moguls and park jumps, my daughter had zero issues with using her race skis (no rails allowed however) and hits all the S and M (with gaps) kickers in the park with no problem.  

 

Big picture however is that if your objective is purely fun and speed through gates isn't important, proper technique isn't paramount, etc.., than honestly anything will work provided they are having fun and they like the graphics.

 

We did just get freeskis for my daughter (turning 8) but that was driven because her race skis are now junior WC SLs with metal in them, I didn't want her destroying them outside the race course,  and they are a bit stiff for her to enjoy them in the moguls.  She transitioned to the wider twins very easily but that was expected given she already knew how to crank her turns.  

post #10 of 12

I think with most kids it is a matter of balancing skill development with fun. Our kids are 10 and 12 and they've had twin tips for a number of years and it really hasn't hampered their skill development. DD doesn't even do park, but she just likes going down runs backwards for fun sometimes :) ...so a twin tip for her is great. There are a number of really good twin tips between 70 and 80 mm width now. Volkl Pyra and Ledge are great. Our kids have preferred the K2 Juvy just a bit more - it's a little bit softer and they both had is an all-mountain twin tip. Depends where you ski too - our kids have had the Juvy in over a foot of snow and down quite well with them. Junior skis have really improved over the past 5 years - and there's a selection of great all-mountain twin tips out there now. 

post #11 of 12

I think there is a bit of confusion here. Park skis are not fat skis. Fat skis are powder/freeride type skis. Park skis are middle of the range when it comes to waist widths. They Pyra pictured above is 74mm underfoot. 

 

Can a child carve on a twin tip? Absolutely. I teach kids every weekend, and all but one of them is on a twin tip. The only one of them that can't carve? The one on the Volkl Racetiger Jr's. To paraphrase an old saying, its the indian, not the arrow. Case in point, I have precisely one pair of carving type skis, and they only come out twice a year for race days. The rest of the time I'm on mid-90's to 100's underfoot twin tipped skis. Me on a 99 underfoot twin tip-

 

*

 

 

The other question is, why is carving so important? Yes, learning how to carve is a great tool to have, but should it be at the detriment to all the other types of skiing a child may want to do? As I've noted, a kid can learn to carve on a twin tip. Is it as easy as learning on a race type ski? No, but it's not hard, either. A twin tipped ski is going to be more versatile that a frontside carver type of ski, and versatility is definitely your friend when you have a young skier. They want to do everything. 

post #12 of 12
I agree with the above statement. I learned to carve on 85mm all-mountain skis. Get the park skis and let him enjoy them smile.gif
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