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Please help me analyzing this video of 10 yo

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

Hi,

 

I have uploaded a video of my young girl falling/slidding.

 

I would like to have your analysis on this error you probably see often.

 

My bet is that she's almost 100% on the inside ski, and there is not enough separation between lower body and upper body. But it seems good skier can be in this position sometimes...maybe I am mistaken.

 

Anyway, just looking for hints and what the best drill would be for this not to happen.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Link is here:https://youtu.be/pu4G1JFtKv4

 

 

Sebastien

post #2 of 15
To me it just looked like "boot out" compounded by an irregularity in the snow. It's like she loses the edge on the inside ski.
post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
What would you do instead of what she did? How can you prevent this, ie how prevent boot out?

More flexed inside leg??
post #4 of 15
Looks like she started her turn late, then tried to correct her line. But starting late there wasn't enough pressure, and in the right place, on the outside ski.
post #5 of 15
Upper body to far inside for the speed and turn so that the wt is pushing out instead of down onto the edges. Any error at this point causes a fall a slide out. In her case you see the inside slip, and she loses balance and falls in.

I would say this is just a matter of getting the right feel for the right position as the intent is there, not so much a skills error.

Overall it actually looks good going in and this is one of those pushed the limit a touch to far errors and is part of the experience.

IMHO she's likely one to watch in the long run.
post #6 of 15
Its a boot out. But its because she is late and tries to incline more than she is able to. Maybe the boot is a bit wide also. On the other hand, it looks like this on the wc all the time. Would have been nice watching her whole run. Looked great up to falling. One reason for a boot out is the lack of outside ski pressure. Balance shifts in and you fall like that. She has no extension range left . Her upper body is straight. Rounđer line and shorter pressure. More outside ski pressure. More angulation and counter at the gate.
post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
Nobody thinks the inside leg is not flexed enough? Both legs how completely right of her torso. I have checked some web sites and it seems inside leg is more flex...

And you are 100% than she is late and this require too much effort to get back on line
post #8 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by yig99 View Post

Nobody thinks the inside leg is not flexed enough? Both legs how completely right of her torso. I have checked some web sites and it seems inside leg is more flex...
Flexing the inside leg is a way to create balance on the outside half of the body, so the two are related.

It's just one turn, so i wouldn't go overboard with overanalysis... But man, she looked great going into the turn. Hope to see her kicking butt in the future.
post #9 of 15

Wow - is this U10 ??? That's simply great skiing at any age group...

 

Some micro-things going on there, she was definitely late at the gate and late in engaging the outside ski (related - if she engaged it a lot, early, she'd go through the flag) and the actual engagement sometimes surprises them. The snow looks a little soft for that kind of edge angle. At that age, they may lack the strength to put up with that kind of forces (when the outside ski suddenly engaged at that edge angle).

 

The point is that when you're so late with those angles, the turning forces required to fix it and still be on the reasonable line are massive. You can see that the outside ski was just engaging and the tip bent a lot just before the wipeout. A lot of things can contribute to wiping out: micro-terrain, snow holding, skipping a rut, the skier freaking out etc.

 

I do see the inside ski engage and then loose and boot out, but I don't think that's the determining factor here.

 

She also tried to rotate exactly when the ski was engaging - that looks to be the only error, for me, in this turn. You can fix being late, but not by assuming things will work out. I would say not to worry and practice being late in gates more. I am not big on gate training usually, at this age, but with that technique, if this turn was not a fluke, she needs more tactical training! She needs to look ahead, recognize offsets and understand what will happen before it does and compensate before it's too late. There are couple ways to deal with being late, she needs to be told what, how and practice them to recognize it.

 

So, yeah: went too straight at the gate, didn't recognize the offset early enough, did a lot of things right to try to save it but also rotated at the wrong time. It also looks like she let the skis go out for too long and lost some pressure that way... 

 

Dude - that's awesome skiing at 10 ! You should look at serious coaching for her... but I suppose she already has it: you don't just ski like that at 10, out of nowhere!

 

p.s. I'm still trying to make up my mind if that was GS or PS...? Was she on SL skis or just the one "do it all" they tend to use at that age?


Edited by razie - 3/28/16 at 7:11am
post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post
 

1- Wow - is this U10 ??? That's simply great skiing at any age group...

 

...

 

2-  She also tried to rotate exactly when the ski was engaging - that looks to be the only error, for me, in this turn.

 

... did a lot of things right to try to save it but also rotated at the wrong time. It also looks like she let the skis go out for too long and lost some pressure that way... 

 

3- p.s. I'm still trying to make up my mind if that was GS or PS...? Was she on SL skis or just the one "do it all" they tend to use at that age?

 

Hi Razie and others

 

Thanks for your time and dedication on helping out. Razie, I quotes your post above and will answer in order

 

1- Yes it is u10...Wouldn't say this turn is a fluke, of course, not all turn all like this...but when she finishes the run in GS, she usually beats girl by 2 sec and would place 2nd with boys

 

2- Can you clarify what you means by this? (tries to rotate...??).  And also clarify that she let the skis go out for too long?...

 

3- At that age, Slalom is 7-9 M. GS is 15-18M. The Duel in the video is 10-15M. And she is on Rossignol skis that are Multi-Event...you are right. Not slalom, nor GS. And since we are at the end of the year, the skis go a bit too small maybe...just under the chin ;(

 

Tx again

 

Sebastien

post #11 of 15

Ok - so that's PS - panel slalom, not a full blown GS. I agree - that's not a fluke: she would not have the confidence to lay out those angles if she doesn't do it regularly.

 

If you review carefuly since she's behind the panel to where the inside knee touches down, the inside hip rotates slightly inward, to point where the skis would have been. I don't know if it was a fluke or not... instead, it should counteract at that point and even rotate the other way slightly, especially as she's trying to tip like crazy to get the skis to grab an edge. Coordinating tipping with the inside hip is not easy - she could definitely work on that.

 

The turn is always the sum of what happened before she got there. If you rewind and look at the transition, she extends up briefly, then drops back down, but doesn't get forward. She's a little confused about moving up vs forward vs down the hill - that's often the result of "regular" coaching as skiers evolve, but her technique is far above this. 

 

We could micro-analyze this more, but it wouldn't be accurate not knowing how she skis otherwise, but she really needs good coaching for her level. She has some great things going there.

 

Technique-wise, if you're looking for something to work on... I would say you could work on fore/aft, i.e. getting forward, by pulling the skis back here instead of coming slightly up:

 

 

being really on the heels at the top of the turn certainly did not help the skis engage. At that point it looks like she was not really late and she could have still saved it. PS is more like GS from a fore/aft perspective.

 

It should look more like this instead (note the heels pulled back hard and the tails of the skis coming up rather than their tips) - many consider the difference a strength issue, but it's a lot more about coordination than strength:

 

 

...and coiling/counteracting... but I would need to see regular skiing video to see what needs more work and what was just a one turn fluke.

 

Good luck ! You can PM me if you want to chat more.


Edited by razie - 3/28/16 at 8:57am
post #12 of 15

But this is really nice - I like it a lot 

 

 

(she was already out of balance here, but)...
 

 

 

pretty close... and she's 10...

 

Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up

post #13 of 15
Thread Starter 

Well thanks again.

 

Bottom line, here in Montreal area, season is over. Work will start back in October/November. I can post a video next year with new gear.

 

Razie, I think you nailed it without seeing other videos, as she lacks some basic balance, and she is confused in aft/foward movement. So she is fast is standard terrain since it is less important, but on icy steeper slope, cautious kids finishes their run, and she slide out of the course. 

 

I guess that I could summarize it as being on the back seat is a total no go if you are trying achieve high edge angle.

 

Thanks for your time guys.

 

Sebastien

post #14 of 15

Cool. We were just in Tremblant the week before last - meh conditions ... and I'll be up in St Anne soon, sure hope there's lots of snow left...

:beercheer:

 

...about fore/aft - make sure you understand the difference between being back on the skis where it matters versus appearing to be back when it doesn't matter - I think this is a good read on the subject: http://www.epicski.com/t/142598/summers-over-time-to-get-forward

 

It matters not just being fore on the skis, but how you get forward, especially for skiing steep ice.

 

cheers

post #15 of 15
 

 

 

 

Can tell you've been doing your homework. Nice!

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