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Fatigue in legs, blue runs [northeast skier - A Beginner Zone thread]

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 

Hi,

 

I recently joined the forum and wanted to ask some advice for an intermediate skier.

 

Green runs for me now are purely for the scenery, and edging my wife towards running blues consistently. For myself, when I ski in a group with more advanced skiers (comfortable on single black diamonds), we stick to blues all day (skiing in NE, not been the best winter for the blacks!), with maybe one stop to regroup half way down. The main issue is fatigue in my legs...

 

1) I ski with wider 's' than my more experienced friends who seem to bolt down much more quickly. Do the wider turns require more effort in the legs? My hunch says yes.

 

2) After a day of skiing 9am-4pm, I feel OK but legs still stiff in the evening. By the next day, they are sore and when we are ready at the top for run number 1, they turn to jelly and turns become pretty difficult. This in turn impacts my confidence and reduces the enjoyment of the blues, and any chances of trying a single black diamond!

 

Are there any exercises I can do to help improve stamina, and/or reduce the fatigue in my legs? Not sure if this is important, but I am 6 foot 1 inch, 32 yo, 215lbs.

 

Cheers,

 

H

post #2 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hullmet View Post
 

Hi,

 

I recently joined the forum and wanted to ask some advice for an intermediate skier.

 

Green runs for me now are purely for the scenery, and edging my wife towards running blues consistently. For myself, when I ski in a group with more advanced skiers (comfortable on single black diamonds), we stick to blues all day (skiing in NE, not been the best winter for the blacks!), with maybe one stop to regroup half way down. The main issue is fatigue in my legs...

 

1) I ski with wider 's' than my more experienced friends who seem to bolt down much more quickly. Do the wider turns require more effort in the legs? My hunch says yes.

 

2) After a day of skiing 9am-4pm, I feel OK but legs still stiff in the evening. By the next day, they are sore and when we are ready at the top for run number 1, they turn to jelly and turns become pretty difficult. This in turn impacts my confidence and reduces the enjoyment of the blues, and any chances of trying a single black diamond!

 

Are there any exercises I can do to help improve stamina, and/or reduce the fatigue in my legs? Not sure if this is important, but I am 6 foot 1 inch, 32 yo, 215lbs.

 

Cheers,

 

H


Welcome to EpicSki!  Let's see if a few instructors will stop by.  Paging @LiquidFeet , @freeski919 , @dchan .

 

How did you learn to ski?  How did you buy your boots?

 

As for ski conditioning exercises, the answer is that there are plenty of things you can do in the off season to be better prepared for skiing at any level.  Working on balance, core strength, and flexibility can actually be more important than leg strength.  I'll post some exercise ideas later.

post #3 of 34

cheap tip only knowing what you have posted, 

 

1 - take a lesson and check your stance with an instructor, or seek out from a knowledgeable friend.  you might just simply be doing a modified wall sit throughout your skiing leading your quads constantly being jacked.  this will tire you out pdq!  a minor shift in your standing position can be transformational in your skiing.  a stance check that I do is when on a green or just exiting the lift, stand tall with your body in line with the angle of your boots, then do some little hops while skiing and feel where you are when you "land", that's the sweet spot for my stance. (I skied as a kid, then again as a 20 and 30 and now 40 something.  when I reintroed into the sport, despite being a reasonably competent and fit road cyclist, my quads were always quaking after day 0.5.  I took a lesson and we spent a lot of time on my stance working on what I describe above.  Having (myself) been a participant in the sport for an extended period of time with self taught bad habits ingrained in my muscle memory it took a while to work out, but, it has made me a better skier than anything else I've done. 

 

2 - get into better shape by riding a bike ... but that's my answer for just about everything.

 

i'm not an instructor so this might be worth what you're paying for it :-)

post #4 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post
 


Welcome to EpicSki!  Let's see if a few instructors will stop by.  Paging @LiquidFeet , @freeski919 , @dchan .

 

How did you learn to ski?  How did you buy your boots?

 

As for ski conditioning exercises, the answer is that there are plenty of things you can do in the off season to be better prepared for skiing at any level.  Working on balance, core strength, and flexibility can actually be more important than leg strength.  I'll post some exercise ideas later.

 

Thank you for the (very) quick reply!

 

I learnt to ski on vacation in Andorra, 6 days skiing with a lesson every morning before a free afternoon. I was, however, 23-24 yo at the time. Fast forward a few year and I went skiing twice, took a lesson and was told (by the very kind) instructor that although I was green/blue standard, he wanted my to work more on my turns since he thought I took to the slopes naturally. Now, at 31-32 yo, ive rediscovered my passion (to be honest, I didnt ski much before because of cost whilst being a student/trainee), and ski 6 times a year (weekends, 2 days on the slope). Sorry for detailed history!

 

I bought the ski boots at a store, fitted with what they had in stock. Lange SX 100 Mens Ski Boot 2016. The left boot is a pain to get on, but they feel great once I am strapped in.

 

Thank you, I would appreciate some tips!

 

H

post #5 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
 

cheap tip only knowing what you have posted, 

 

1 - take a lesson and check your stance with an instructor, or seek out from a knowledgeable friend.  you might just simply be doing a modified wall sit throughout your skiing leading your quads constantly being jacked.  this will tire you out pdq!  a minor shift in your standing position can be transformational in your skiing.  a stance check that I do is when on a green or just exiting the lift, stand tall with your body in line with the angle of your boots, then do some little hops while skiing and feel where you are when you "land", that's the sweet spot for my stance. (I skied as a kid, then again as a 20 and 30 and now 40 something.  when I reintroed into the sport, despite being a reasonably competent and fit road cyclist, my quads were always quaking after day 0.5.  I took a lesson and we spent a lot of time on my stance working on what I describe above.  Having (myself) been a participant in the sport for an extended period of time with self taught bad habits ingrained in my muscle memory it took a while to work out, but, it has made me a better skier than anything else I've done. 

 

2 - get into better shape by riding a bike ... but that's my answer for just about everything.

 

i'm not an instructor so this might be worth what you're paying for it :-)

 

Thank you, also, for replying so quickly. I posted my ski history just above. When I ski the harder slopes (blues), I do tend to squat forward, as you said, it does feel like sitting on a wall. I also feel like I am working hard on each turn.

 

In general, my wife said (she is only a beginner but I think has a valid point), that my skis are parallel but probably too far apart (shoulder width). Is that true? She also says that I appear to bend my legs a lot and squat forward. This is prob not good, right?

 

Again, thank you, I love free advice!

 

H

post #6 of 34

I am a novice

When I feel more neutral in my skiing I feel less tired and can ski all day. When I am pushing the skis I get exactly what you are describing. I have no idea what switch flips between the two but I know its possible. 

post #7 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hullmet View Post
 

 

Thank you, also, for replying so quickly. I posted my ski history just above. When I ski the harder slopes (blues), I do tend to squat forward, as you said, it does feel like sitting on a wall. I also feel like I am working hard on each turn.

 

In general, my wife said (she is only a beginner but I think has a valid point), that my skis are parallel but probably too far apart (shoulder width). Is that true? She also says that I appear to bend my legs a lot and squat forward. This is prob not good, right?

 

Again, thank you, I love free advice!

 

H

 

Hi Hullmet - I started getting more into skiing and took some lessons initially simply to keep up with my friends. Your description of tiredness and fatigue and stopping sounds VERY familiar to me. What I discovered was my skiing position and tehcnique had my weight much too far back toward the tail of the skis. That results in a LOT of fatigue in the quads (the front and side of the thighs).

 

Is that where you really feel it? If so, it's almost certain that you're too far back - usually referred to as "skiing in the backseat". This can be true, even if you're leaning forward at the waist, as you may be trying to compensate and stay balanced. 

 

If that's the case, I'd suggest taking a lesson or two with a good instructor and describing the situation. I know for me, after even my first 1-hour lesson, I could already start to ski longer runs and more runs with less fatigue, and it's only gotten better since.

post #8 of 34

The first couple of ski days for me this year left me wondering how I'd gotten into such terrible shape over the summer. My legs were killing me. Then I realized it was the early season conditions, and some very low-light days, and my inability to take it in stride and relax. I was stiff, hesitant and hanging back. First good day, I was fine. The snow was good, the sun was out and creating contour-defining shadows, and I was loose, relaxed and centered. No excess fatigue at all. I have a hard time forcing myself to relax, but it's always when I'm tense and tight that I get in trouble. Lessons really do help.

post #9 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipshod View Post
 

The first couple of ski days for me this year left me wondering how I'd gotten into such terrible shape over the summer. My legs were killing me. Then I realized it was the early season conditions, and some very low-light days, and my inability to take it in stride and relax. I was stiff, hesitant and hanging back. First good day, I was fine. The snow was good, the sun was out and creating contour-defining shadows, and I was loose, relaxed and centered. No excess fatigue at all. I have a hard time forcing myself to relax, but it's always when I'm tense and tight that I get in trouble. Lessons really do help.


Hey there!  Thanks for checking in the Beginner Zone.  It's been a while.  What type of terrain were you skiing, groomers or off-piste?  How often do you take lessons?

 

Good point that when someone is tense then their skiing is probably not going to be their best.

post #10 of 34

@Hullmet :  Here are some ideas for ski conditioning.  What works for me is to push on conditioning for a couple months soon after ski season ends and I'm still thinking about whatever issues came up that being in better shape would help.  I tend to slack off during the summer when there is a lot going on with my family.  Then I pick up exercising again in the fall after school starts for my daughter.  I didn't start deliberate ski conditioning until a few years ago after needing to do knee rehab (not a skiing injury).  I was over 55 then and a low advanced skier.  Having better 1-leg balance and core strength made a big difference.  I didn't start working on cardio and leg strength until a year or two later.

 

Balance

 

 

Flexibility

 

 

Strength

 

post #11 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post
 


Hey there!  Thanks for checking in the Beginner Zone.  It's been a while.  What type of terrain were you skiing, groomers or off-piste?  How often do you take lessons?

 

Good point that when someone is tense then their skiing is probably not going to be their best.

Hi marznc. All kinds of complications have kept me busier than I would like this winter, so I've been away from the site and the sport for too many days. I'm on the groomers all the time, which is just as well at my age, and there's not much in the way of off-piste terrain here in eastern Ontario and western Quebec. Hasn't been much of a season here, with a late start, not-great snowfall and too much rain. Tomorrow is the last day at our neighborhood hill. Hoping the groomers can turn today's ice storm into some nice, consistent granular snow to finish the season in style.

post #12 of 34
Hullmet,

It sounds like your problem arises when you ski with "more advanced" friends who ski fast down blue runs with only a few stops along the way. 

You mention that you make wider turns than they do, and I'm assuming this is to avoid going too fast for comfort.  That's wise!

Your legs hurt in the evening and turn to jelly the next morning.  You mention leg fatigue.

I'm assuming your quads (thighs) are burning at the end of a few hours and at the end of the day they are quivering with overuse and exhaustion.

It's dangerous to ski when your quads are quivering.  Stop skiing before they get this tired; bad things happen at this point.

 
You are wondering if the width of your turns is causing your leg problem, and you want to know what exercises can help you be stronger so this won't happen.

 

If I've got this right, your problem is how you balance on your skis, not how wide your turns are.  If you have your legs coming straight up out of your boots as 

you ski (shins perpendicular to skis), and if you are in a crouching position, half-sitting, your quads (thighs) will get a massive workout.  Do you know what a wall-sit is?

If you balance on your skis the way I just described, then you are doing this all day.  Skiers don't need to do this, but sometimes they get into this habit.

If this is you, then you are in the "back seat," you are "sitting back" on your skis.  It's very common.  Doing wall sits all summer would help, but it's just a bandaid on the problem.

 

If you're skiing in the back seat, you might look something like this.  Looks like wall-sits, and works the quads the same.

 


The fix is hard to learn to do but very worthwhile.  You need to work on balancing on your skis as you are moving with this stance as your "home base."

The fist big difference is getting your knees over the toe pieces of your bindings.  That means

you will need to tilt your skins forward as they come up out of the boot.  Always.  Always.  Always!  

And you will need to hover the rest of your upper body forward-ish as you turn right and left.  

You can see this forward hovering in the picture above.  No sitting!  Stand up taller and hover forward.

Keep those shins tilted forward and your body hovering forward so at least half of your weight is in front

of that dotted line up there in the picture.


Your legs will be thankful, and your turns will be easier to do.

post #13 of 34
So I suffer from this as well but only when I go out west. At my home hill I can ski all day and my legs are fine. I go out west and as the day goes on my legs get tired. I believe it is because of bad form from being hesitant. I sit back a little, try to slow my self down and end up with burning thighs. This past trip it has gotten a lot better because I've taken lessons and worked on my form. If I were you, I'd get a private lesson and have them follow you on some of these advanced trails. Odds are your form is breaking down on the hard stuff.
post #14 of 34

A while back, @CentralVT08 had a thread about the most cost-effective way to get some lessons in VT when on a tight budget.  While a private lesson is obviously a great way to improve technique and how to do a few drills correctly, it's not a requirement.  Lessons at smaller ski areas are less expensive.  A group lesson taken at the right time can be a solo lesson.

 

A lesson with @T-Square at the Dartmouth Skiway would undoubtedly be helpful.

 

Do not need advanced terrain to learn fundamentals.  In fact, the only way to ingrain fundamentals properly is to practice on easier terrain.  Most of my lessons in recent years have been at Massanutten, which only has 70 acres.  Since my coach is a very experienced instructor (PSIA Level 3, 20+ years of teaching experience), everything I've learned from him is directly applicable to skiing at big mountains in the northeast or out west.

post #15 of 34
Welcome to EpicSki.

Everyone has presented some good information in this thread. However, it's hard to determine what the issue is without being able to see you ski. If you had some video we be able to better determine what the issue is and give you some advice. Even if you had some photos they would also help.

As far as lessons at the Dartmouth Skiway this year, we are all out of luck. We closed two weeks ago after a tip roaring season of eight weeks and four days. cool.gif Yuck! Maybe next year.
post #16 of 34
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hullmet View Post

 

Thank you, also, for replying so quickly. I posted my ski history just above. When I ski the harder slopes (blues), I do tend to squat forward, as you said, it does feel like sitting on a wall. I also feel like I am working hard on each turn.

 

In general, my wife said (she is only a beginner but I think has a valid point), that my skis are parallel but probably too far apart (shoulder width). Is that true? She also says that I appear to bend my legs a lot and squat forward. This is prob not good, right?

 

Again, thank you, I love free advice!

 

H

 

Missed this question about the distance between your skis before.  My guess is that you may think your feet should be very close together because you've see skiers who look very comfortable skiing that way.  Many of those people are probably old enough to have learned on straight skis, meaning more than 20 years ago.  With the way skis are made and shaped now, a very narrow stance is not a good idea.  In fact, my ski buddy who was an advanced skier in high school 45 years ago has been working with instructors in recent years to widen his stance.  Not a lot, but enough to allow him to put his skis on edge more effectively.

 

This post is from a 2015 Beginner Zone thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 
Originally Posted by kalendae View Post
I see a lot of people just seem very effortless and stand around in a narrow stance. For me I seem to naturally have a pretty wide stance like almost shoulder width. When I ski narrow stance I have to make a conscious effort and sort of put my knees closer together. is this the case for everyone or do I have some sort of alignment issue?
....

When you become proficient in skiing, when you have built up strong skills for handling variable conditions on different terrain (bumps, powder, crud, steeps, ice), you'll be using different stance widths in order to gain better performance out of your skis.  But as a beginner skiing on groomed slopes, the following rule of thumb pretty much covers what you need to be doing.  

 

The distance between your feet should be, ideally, about the same as when you stand when in the kitchen with sneakers on.  

It's your comfort and your anatomy that determines your stance width on skis.  

 

If you feel wobbly with that everyday normal stance, you need to figure out why you're wobbly and fix that without widening your stance.  An instructor can help you with that.  Or post video and people here will analyze. (Put your suit of armor on before posting that videot!  You'll get excellent advice - but without face contact - so the info will come at you rather bluntly.)

 

An extremely narrow stance with feet pretty much plastered together was a fad in the distant past.  If that's what you have in mind, don't go there!!!!   Today's skis work better on groomed trails if you keep them somewhat apart.

 

Usage tip: The green arrow in the Quote above is a "forward" link.  Hover over it until you get the pointing hand pointer, then click to go to the original post/thread.

post #17 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hullmet View Post
 

 

 

2) After a day of skiing 9am-4pm, I feel OK but legs still stiff in the evening. By the next day, they are sore and when we are ready at the top for run number 1, they turn to jelly and turns become pretty difficult. This in turn impacts my confidence and reduces the enjoyment of the blues, and any chances of trying a single black diamond!

 

 

Apres ski stretching and self-massage can seriously help with this.        Work on technique, yes, but also help yourself feel better when you're off the snow. 

post #18 of 34
Quote:
 my skis are parallel but probably too far apart (shoulder width). Is that true? She also says that I appear to bend my legs a lot and squat forward. This is prob not good, right?

Your wife is very observant.  The correct leg stance is walking width apart.  That's where our bodies have been balancing us since we were about a year old.  Stick with that.  The width of one's shoulders and the width of their ski stance have no relationship.

 

The photo in post #12 is a good one.  The skier can not measure his own stance.  Try this--stand tall with loose joints.  Stay on the balls of your feet all the time.  To get your shins against your boot tongues, hinge forward at your ankles, don't squat.  Hand position?--again, find your natural position.  Imagine that you're walking across the slickest ice ever.  Your body will put your hands out in a natural balancing position, slightly out, slightly up, slightly wide.  That's it!  That's your hand position for skiing.

 

Quote:
 as the day goes on my legs get tired. I believe it is because of bad form from being hesitant. I sit back a little, try to slow my self down and end up with burning thighs.

Sitting back or leaning toward the hill for a false sense of security doesn't work, does it?  You just get both tired and lose control.  Instead, stay tall.  To slow yourself down, lean forward.  Engage the tips of your skis to get more control to do whatever you want your skis to do for you--turn or brake.  It takes practice to lean down that scary hill, but you gott'a do it.  Once you break through, you'll enjoy both the feeling and the control.

post #19 of 34

Two notes for skiing efficiency:

1. braking (skidding with your skis somewhat perpendicular to the trail) takes energy, do you skid when you turn? It takes more energy to ski slower. One way to brake less is to simply become more accustomed to higher speeds which takes time.

2. when on skis the position you are holding affect efficiency. if you lean against the front of the boot and use it for support while you ski it helps. also if you don't bend down too much such that you are in a squatted position that also helps. keep your hips forward. unfortunately this is a slightly less balanced position. bending down lowers your center of gravity thus you will feel more balanced at speed.

 

if you are braking when you are turning and doing so in a low position with knees deeply bent, it almost guarantees a ton of quadriceps usage.

post #20 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

 

Apres ski stretching and self-massage can seriously help with this.        Work on technique, yes, but also help yourself feel better when you're off the snow. 


I have found that dry sauna after a day of skiing makes a huge difference for the next day.  I am not sure the science exactly, but I believe it helps increase bloodflow to the legs and helps purge any toxins (lactic acid) as well as relax the muscles and ligaments.  Make sure you hydrate well and get some salt to recharge electrolytes.  @Hullmet I am about your height, weight and age.

 

If you cannot find a dry sauna, hot tub works OK, but sauna is better.  I like sauna because you can tell how much you sweat and know if you are staying in long enough.  I generally stay in about 20-30 minutes in sauna.  Long for most people, but I'm from Texas and am used to heat :-). Sports massage is great too, but usually more expensive and time consuming.

 

As you get better at skiing, it should also become less physically taxing.  I have also noticed that sometimes the morning stiffness/jelly legs passes after about an hour of 'chill' skiing.  Be very careful with this though -- skiing too fast while tired is a really bad idea.

post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy View Post
 
Quote:
 my skis are parallel but probably too far apart (shoulder width). Is that true? She also says that I appear to bend my legs a lot and squat forward. This is prob not good, right?

Your wife is very observant.  The correct leg stance is walking width apart.  That's where our bodies have been balancing us since we were about a year old.  Stick with that.  The width of one's shoulders and the width of their ski stance have no relationship.

 

If he has a hard time fixing this by next season, he'll do well to have his boots checked by a boot pro.  Make sure someone didn't set his cuff tilt wrong when he bought them.

post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hullmet View Post
 
Thank you, also, for replying so quickly. I posted my ski history just above. When I ski the harder slopes (blues), I do tend to squat forward, as you said, it does feel like sitting on a wall. I also feel like I am working hard on each turn.

 

In general, my wife said (she is only a beginner but I think has a valid point), that my skis are parallel but probably too far apart (shoulder width). Is that true? She also says that I appear to bend my legs a lot and squat forward. This is prob not good, right?

 

Again, thank you, I love free advice!

 

H

Check out the video below.  

Here are two screen shots from it showing what squatting forward with bent legs looks like.

These two are from the skier to the left of the image.

Ask your wife if this is what she's seeing.

 

 

 

 

 

post #23 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by daren View Post
 

Two notes for skiing efficiency:

1. braking (skidding with your skis somewhat perpendicular to the trail) takes energy, do you skid when you turn? It takes more energy to ski slower. One way to brake less is to simply become more accustomed to higher speeds which takes time.

2. when on skis the position you are holding affect efficiency. if you lean against the front of the boot and use it for support while you ski it helps. also if you don't bend down too much such that you are in a squatted position that also helps. keep your hips forward. unfortunately this is a slightly less balanced position. bending down lowers your center of gravity thus you will feel more balanced at speed.

 

if you are braking when you are turning and doing so in a low position with knees deeply bent, it almost guarantees a ton of quadriceps usage.

 

I'm very uncomfortable with giving anyone the advice "just get used to going faster." Nobody becomes a better skier by just letting gravity do what it wants. In about a decade and a half of instructing, I've never even thought of giving that advice. Getting accustomed to speed is one thing, but just going faster for the sake of saving one's legs is, frankly, poor advice.

 

Also, let's be clear that skidding and braking are not the same thing. I don't want the OP being confused thinking that "skidding" means "hockey stop". 

 

Lastly, stance advice is rather deeply flawed as well. Leaning against the front of the boot is a limiting tactic, and will cause a novice to struggle as they progress. Further, a good athletic stance, without squatting, is a far more effectively balanced position than squatting. Just because the Center of Mass is lower to the ground does not mean that one is in better balance. 

 

I applaud you wanting to help give the OP advice. However, at this point it may be a better idea for you to take the role of learner as opposed to teacher. 

post #24 of 34
Strongly recommend you purchase a copy the original of breakthrough on skis DVD by Lito Tejada Flores.

Still the finest piece of Ski instruction ever produced IMHO.

$30 now on eBay. The music and visuals alone are worth the price of admission! The instruction should eliminate most of your concerns.

Once you digest that will probably direct you to some awesome YouTube material available for free. However, I highly recommend you start with my friend Lito.

I also agree with others here - suggest an equipment check is in order particularly making certain that your ski boots are appropriate and fit well.

I also trust and hope that you spent some time in my beginners Ski tips thread here in the beginner ski forum. Lots of good tips there could be directed specifically at the OP.

I believe Lito also sells his DVDs via his website.
post #25 of 34

i am not going to pretend like an expert, i ski no more than 10 days a year. just wanted to share my thoughts, you never know, they might help OP. i might've used wrong word with 'braking' what i mean is 'deceleration via skidding'. When a skier goes to a slope that's slightly steeper than their comfort zone they typically skid hard (not complete stop but decelerate rapidly) at every turn to control their speed because they are not used to balance and absorbing bumps at faster speeds yet. I do this, I see a fair amount of others on the slopes do this as well. This type of rapid deceleration uses a ton of muscle energy.Those are just my thoughts.

 

as far as stance goes, from personal experience leaning against the shins (almost standing on your shins) while cruising saves quite a bit of energy. And its a better position than standing up almost straight (which is even more effortless if you are good enough with balance). Good way to rest when you hit a softer patch. this might not be the most 'proper' stance, but might be helpful for OP to try, see if it helps him in some way.

 

Just trying to help people save energy and do more runs.

post #26 of 34

I think @daren has a lot of it correct in his last post (not so much his first one).

A couple of things I've noticed: 

 

A fairly small change in technique can make a big difference in fatigue.  My first day of the season, my legs were extremely tired.  My second day, a week later, my legs hurt after two runs.  But then something clicked.  It did not feel like I was doing anything different, but my legs quit hurting and I skied all day without getting overly tired.  I must have tweaked my stance or relaxed some tension, but I could not feel what the difference was at the time.

 

Bracing does take a lot out of your legs. This past weekend I skied soft surfaces, including a lot of bumps, Friday and Sunday.  Saturday was flat, icy slopes on winding trails, including a couple spots where making the mandatory turn was not a foregone conclusion.  My legs were a lot more tired Saturday than the other days, and the fatigue was more concentrated in the quads rather than spread around my whole body.

 

edit: "windy" --> "winding"


Edited by mdf - 3/29/16 at 3:24pm
post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post
 

I think @daren has a lot of it correct in his last post (not so much his first one).

A couple of things I've noticed: 

 

A fairly small change in technique can make a big difference in fatigue.  My first day of the season, my legs were extremely tired.  My second day, a week later, my legs hurt after two runs.  But then something clicked.  It did not feel like I was doing anything different, but my legs quit hurting and I skied all day without getting overly tired.  I must have tweaked my stance or relaxed some tension, but I could not feel what the difference was at the time.

 

Bracing does take a lot out of your legs. This past weekend I skied soft surfaces, including a lot of bumps, Friday and Sunday.  Saturday was flat, icy slopes on windy trails, including a couple spots where making the mandatory turn was not a foregone conclusion.  My legs were a lot more tired Saturday than the other days, and the fatigue was more concentrated in the quads rather than spread around my whole body.

 Where did you find those bumps?  I've been looking....

post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post
 

I think @daren has a lot of it correct in his last post (not so much his first one).

A couple of things I've noticed: 

 

A fairly small change in technique can make a big difference in fatigue.  My first day of the season, my legs were extremely tired.  My second day, a week later, my legs hurt after two runs.  But then something clicked.  It did not feel like I was doing anything different, but my legs quit hurting and I skied all day without getting overly tired.  I must have tweaked my stance or relaxed some tension, but I could not feel what the difference was at the time.

 

Bracing does take a lot out of your legs. This past weekend I skied soft surfaces, including a lot of bumps, Friday and Sunday.  Saturday was flat, icy slopes on windy trails, including a couple spots where making the mandatory turn was not a foregone conclusion.  My legs were a lot more tired Saturday than the other days, and the fatigue was more concentrated in the quads rather than spread around my whole body.

 Where did you find those bumps?  I've been looking....


He found them at Stowe, naturellement. Avec moi — though I didn't ski many of them.

 

I'm no instructor, so caveat emptor, but I find that keeping the feet pulled back (using hamstrings) means that the quads don't take the strain — you're more upright. When I remember to ski like that, I don't get tired. Finishing turns across the fall line helps, too, since you're using a slow line to control speed. 

 

This advice won't become workable until you feel the difference, I think.  

 

(+1, by the way, on the T-Square at the Skiway advice — the Skiway has the best lesson deal around, and T-S is worth the drive.)

post #29 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post
 

I think @daren has a lot of it correct in his last post (not so much his first one).

A couple of things I've noticed: 

 

A fairly small change in technique can make a big difference in fatigue.  My first day of the season, my legs were extremely tired.  My second day, a week later, my legs hurt after two runs.  But then something clicked.  It did not feel like I was doing anything different, but my legs quit hurting and I skied all day without getting overly tired.  I must have tweaked my stance or relaxed some tension, but I could not feel what the difference was at the time.

 

Bracing does take a lot out of your legs. This past weekend I skied soft surfaces, including a lot of bumps, Friday and Sunday.  Saturday was flat, icy slopes on windy trails, including a couple spots where making the mandatory turn was not a foregone conclusion.  My legs were a lot more tired Saturday than the other days, and the fatigue was more concentrated in the quads rather than spread around my whole body.

 Where did you find those bumps?  I've been looking....


He found them at Stowe, naturellement. Avec moi — though I didn't ski many of them.

Yes.  Now admittedly that was before Monday's rain.  But I can tell you the story before that.

Centerline and Hayride were left au naturel.  Parts of Hayride were melting out, so don't know if it is still there, but skiers left had some pretty large bumps.

Liftline was two-thirds groomed.  From the chair over on skier's right was allowed to bump up, and the line right under the chair, on the boundary, was very nice.

Gulch, a short run near the bottom, says "moguls" as a footnote right on the trail sign, so I think they must leave it most of the time.

National had quite a few bumps too, although the bottom of Upper and the top of Lower were starting to melt out -- might be gone now.

 

In addition, the busier blue runs were groomed at the start of the day and had started to bump up by the end of the day.

post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post

 

In addition, the busier blue runs were groomed at the start of the day and had started to bump up by the end of the day.

 

Which, incidentally, were great for me! :D

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