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First time using metalgrip

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

So I am trying to repair one of my skis that had a core shot next to the edge.  I obtained some copolymer and a soldering iron.  I cleaned out the gouge so that it was rectangular with a flat bottom of core exposed (about 3mm wide x 8mm long).  I further cleaned out the area with denatured alcohol.

 

Using the soldering iron I melted copolymer string into the gouge.  I overfilled it and used the soldering iron to work the material into the gouge and the surrounding area just adjacent to the gouge.  I let it cool while initially pressing the copolymer with the face of a metal scraper.

An hour later I went to scrape and the copolymer on the surface seemed like a rubbery plastic that readily released from the ski edge and peeled up from the surrounding base as I scraped.

 

What was left was that the gouge had a plug of copolymer inside it but it did not look smooth.  I have tried to add more copolymer but it just scrapes off.  I have tried to add material from a ptex candle and it just scrapes off too.

 

I am concerned whether the repair will stay put when the ski hits the snow...the fact that the stuff on the surface did not adhere well to the edge or the surrounding base has me a bit concerned.

 

I have researched forum posts and videos from various sites prior to attempting the repair.  Does anyone have any further advice on how to properly apply so this stuff stays put?

 

Also is it normal for the copolymer to set up like rubberized plastic?

 

-Z

post #2 of 16

I have had good luck by sanding the metal with 120 grit paper. See if you can scratch the metal so it has more surface area to bond too.

 

If the fix sticks to the metal, it doesn't really need to perfectly flat with the base p-tex, as long as it seals the hole so moisture stays out.

 

I have a fix in my rock skis that is not flush with the base but skiing I never notice it.

 

 

I do this type fix with a propane torch with the flame turned down very low, I preheat the metal before I drip in the string. I will file the fix down with a fine file so I'm not putting a lot of force on it.

post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 

I think the metalgrip/copolymer that is plugging the hole is adhering to the inside of the metal edge but I thought it would adhere to the edge in general...it just scrapes/peels right off the base side of the metal edge and I know they are clean because I did a diamond stone progression and rubbed them down with denatured alcohol prior to doing the base repair.  Should it adhere differently to the base edge when melting it in?

 

Is my experience a sign that I am heating it up too much? or not heating it up enough?  It does not flow but certainly become a viscous and sticky goo when I work it with the soldering iron.

 

-Z

post #4 of 16

I'm guessing your not heating hot the old p-tex enough if its not adhering to it. I pre heat the p-tex a little also.

 

I can still see the fix that I did on those skis after I ski them, the wax comes out of that spot.

 

The metalgrip will be fluid so may be your not getting it hot enough, It's better that your going slow, you can always go a little hotter until it sticks. You don't want to go to hot the first time and screw something up.

post #5 of 16

OP:  You do know that you're supposed to put regular ptex over the metalgrip, it's not meant to be skied on but to act as a binder?

post #6 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

OP:  You do know that you're supposed to put regular ptex over the metalgrip, it's not meant to be skied on but to act as a binder?

Thumbs Up

post #7 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

OP:  You do know that you're supposed to put regular ptex over the metalgrip, it's not meant to be skied on but to act as a binder?

 

I thought that was true for the middle of the base but did not know that was the case along the edges too...But I gave this a shot already by dripping some P-tex onto the copolymer treated area along the edge.  When scraping after it cooled it just came right off...it did not bond to the copolymer repair.

 

-Z

post #8 of 16

If dripped P-tex is coming off the copolymer, the copolymer was too cold when joined.   

Get the drip flame right down on top of the repair site.   _Blue_ flame spreading down onto the melt on the ski is about optimal.

OR use a pre-cut piece of P-tex and the soldering iron to heat both the copolymer and the pre-cut piece

OR just use epoxy ;)
 

From what you and Max discussed above, it sounds like you did the first part pretty much right, now to get the second part.

post #9 of 16

skip the drip ptex and melt in ptex ribbon the same way you melted in the metalgrip. With both the metalgrip and the ptex work the material into the gouge with the iron, don't just drip it in. 

I'm not a tech but personally I try to avoid removing any material, unless it's loose. Metal grip and ptex stick to irregular surfaces as well as to regular ones. My repairs don't look pretty (until the next time I have a base grind) but they don't come out.

My son had a core shot while we were at alta. One shop wanted to cut away material and patch the gouge. The other shop just filled it. Came out fine and stayed in. Less is better IMO--if it doesn't work you can do more the next time.

post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

skip the drip ptex and melt in ptex ribbon the same way you melted in the metalgrip. With both the metalgrip and the ptex work the material into the gouge with the iron, don't just drip it in.

 

One issue and two questions:

 

Issue:  I am stationed in Belgium and live along the french border 45+ minutes southwest from Brussels....there are no ski shops here so the chance of picking up repair ribbon locally is nil.  I was able to pick up some copolymer string while skiing in Bavaria early last month.  The price to ship will usually exceed the cost of the product even to a military APO address.

 

Questions:

1.  If a cannot get my hands on repair ribbon, can I/should I work the p-tex candle with the soldering iron the same way as if I was actually using repair ribbon or would the paraffin content cause problems?

 

2.  When plastic welding kayaks one would "work" the repair plastic into the crack actually melting/merging the repair plastic with the plastic of the kayak.  When doing weld type repair on the ski should I be attempting the same thing with the margins of the gouge or should I be working to just fill the gouge to get a good bond?

 

All my experience prior to this has been filling small gouges using ptex candles...so working with copolymer and dealing with gouges along the edge and down to the core are new territory for me.

 

-Z

post #11 of 16

I don't know about trying to melt in the ptex candle. Someone more knowledgeable than I will probably answer.

You should be trying to weld the patching material into the old material.

I have a hard time not using too much metal grip so sometimes by the time I scrape off the excess ptex I'm left with metal grip on the surface. Despite being softer than ptex the metal grip seems to hold up well.  So my advice, unless someone has a better idea or unless you can find a reasonably local source for ptex, would be to weld in the metal grip and leave it at that. You can either fill the gouge flush or leave a defect to be filled when you can get your hands on ptex ribbon. Or find someone with a pair of beater skis they'll give you for free and cut a piece of ptex off the bottom. Maybe someone a ski with a broken or lost mate.:) (I actually have no idea if that would work but it seems like it should.) 

 

Good to know you're there if the Germans decide to attack through the Ardennes again.

post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

skip the drip ptex and melt in ptex ribbon the same way you melted in the metalgrip. With both the metalgrip and the ptex work the material into the gouge with the iron, don't just drip it in. 

I'm not a tech but personally I try to avoid removing any material, unless it's loose. Metal grip and ptex stick to irregular surfaces as well as to regular ones. My repairs don't look pretty (until the next time I have a base grind) but they don't come out.

My son had a core shot while we were at alta. One shop wanted to cut away material and patch the gouge. The other shop just filled it. Came out fine and stayed in. Less is better IMO--if it doesn't work you can do more the next time.


I'll second the above.

post #13 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by zohan View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

skip the drip ptex and melt in ptex ribbon the same way you melted in the metalgrip. With both the metalgrip and the ptex work the material into the gouge with the iron, don't just drip it in.

 

One issue and two questions:

 

Issue:  I am stationed in Belgium and live along the french border 45+ minutes southwest from Brussels....there are no ski shops here so the chance of picking up repair ribbon locally is nil.  I was able to pick up some copolymer string while skiing in Bavaria early last month.  The price to ship will usually exceed the cost of the product even to a military APO address.

 

Questions:

1.  If a cannot get my hands on repair ribbon, can I/should I work the p-tex candle with the soldering iron the same way as if I was actually using repair ribbon or would the paraffin content cause problems?

 

2.  When plastic welding kayaks one would "work" the repair plastic into the crack actually melting/merging the repair plastic with the plastic of the kayak.  When doing weld type repair on the ski should I be attempting the same thing with the margins of the gouge or should I be working to just fill the gouge to get a good bond?

 

All my experience prior to this has been filling small gouges using ptex candles...so working with copolymer and dealing with gouges along the edge and down to the core are new territory for me.

 

-Z


You don't need to melt the base material to get the Metal-Grip or the P-Tex wire to bond.  You do need to clean the area well.  You may also rough up the surfaces as well to aid the adhesion.  When you apply either or right at a metal edge it is wise to run the iron for a bit right on that portion of edge to heat it up good.  Still it will scrape off a smooth metal edge pretty easy.  If you do melt a bit of base it's no big deal, but you should not need to.  I use a deal that regulates the heat of a soldering iron or a wood burning tool.  I use a wood burning tool as I like the tips that can be used.  You only need about 400 F.  Without the potentiometer ( It's like a dimmer for a light bulb or say a volume knob )  the wood burner would be way way too hot.  

The metal grip is used as a primer only, then finish with the P-Tex wire.

 

Wire.  http://www.the-raceplace.com/P-Tex-Repair-Wire-p/3252z.htm

 

Metal Grip.  http://www.the-raceplace.com/Metal-Grip-Ski-and-Snowboard-Base-Repair-p/3254z.htm

post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 

So I believe I got a solid repair done...will know as soon as I get my sticks out on some snow (southwest Belgium is not good for that).

 

I re-cleaned the area using white mineral spirits as I did not have wax remover or base cleaner available.  I then cleaned the area again with denatured alcohol to remove any residue that the mineral spirits may have left behind.

After leaving it to dry for 20 minutes, I then pre-heated the area of the base I was working on with a hair dryer.

 

I tried using the soldering iron the p-tex candle but it did not seem to get hot enough to melt the candle to the right consistency....so I lit the candle keeping a low blue flame and used it to flow p-tex into/onto the repair area.  I let it cool, scraped, and re-applied more p-tex candle and repeated.

 

After 4 or 5 applications of p-tex and scraping it seemed good.  It looked even better after waxing, scraping and brushing the ski.

 

We'll see how it goes.

 

In the future I will fill less with the metal grip and use it to coat the inside of a gouge that has core or edge material showing, instead of using it to fill the gouge.

 

-Z

post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 

Finally got out on some snow since starting this thread.  The skiing conditions were not the best due to the warm weather in southern Bavaria, but the repair has held up extremely well.

Thanks all for the much appreciated advice.

 

-Z

post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by zohan View Post
 

Finally got out on some snow since starting this thread.  The skiing conditions were not the best due to the warm weather in southern Bavaria, but the repair has held up extremely well.

Thanks all for the much appreciated advice.

 

-Z


Awesome.  They don't need to look pretty, just work!

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