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Switching from straights and need advice. - Page 2

post #31 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireflyxchicka View Post
 

When I search for racing skis for my height, it only comes up with Juniors. Is there any real difference besides length between the junior and adult racing skis?


Yes, unless you are extremely light go with the regular race skis.

 

Try

http://stores.ebay.com/ASOGEAR

http://blizzardskioutlet.com/

post #32 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireflyxchicka View Post
 

 

I'm definitely buying new boots, because I hate mine. They pinch no matter what I do with them. I never had that problem with any other pair. I'm less worried about the boots though. That should be a relatively simple decision. 

 

 

You've got the whole process backwards.  Spend the most time getting new boots, skis are relatively simple.

post #33 of 48

+1 on the boots...if you hate them, I would start there and demo skis until you find something you love. IMO, there is a lot more difference in how skis "feel" these days than 20+ years ago.

post #34 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireflyxchicka View Post
 

I'm definitely buying new boots, because I hate mine. They pinch no matter what I do with them. I never had that problem with any other pair. I'm less worried about the boots though. That should be a relatively simple decision. 

It will be real simple if you go to a big box store like Sports Authority or Dick's Sporting Goods.  Ask for your shoe size, bring out one pair of boots, you try them on, if they're comfortable you're done.  No problem, except they'll be two sizes too big.  You need to go to a qualified and experienced boot fitter.


Edited by mtcyclist - 3/9/16 at 4:08pm
post #35 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by squawbomber View Post
 

maybe just put some bindings on some 2x4s? 

the new skis, if you actually ski them, will require a compete learning of new technique, but you should be able to slide around "old school" on just about any pair of skis- i'd say cheaper the better, probably something non-expert so they don't get in the way. 

I'm being a bit sarcastic, but there's a lot of truth to what I'm saying: something narrow, not too much sidecut, and not too stiff will be the easiest to adapt to, unless you want to learn to ski with modern technique.

Demo some and see what you like.

I have to very strongly disagree. If anything modern skis take less technique and are more intuitive than old skis. Perhaps it was a hard transition for you, but I found my skiing better and easier the first run on a shaped ski. There are new techniques to learn--only true experts at mach speed could actually carve old skis so even good skiers never learned to carve back in the day. Now anyone can learn, but that's an enhancement that can be learned fairly quickly, and until it is learned the new skis will still be easier to use than the old ones, right off the bat. 

 

When shaped skis first started becoming popular there were a lot of people saying what you are saying--you have to learn to ski all over again. That scared off a lot of people, which was a real disservice to their enjoyment of skiing--the OP obviously being one of them.. The main reason you see so many people my age (65) and older still skiing is the new equipment. There is no way I would still be skiing if I had to ski on the gear I skied for the first half of my skiing career. 

post #36 of 48

I agree with above.  Not hard at all to switch from straight to shaped/modern.  They are only easier to turn.  Just like old skies some are stiffer some are softer some are heavy some are light.  You can ski them the same way and then you can learn a few new tricks.

 

Not a big deal.

post #37 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post
 

It will be real simple if you go to a big box store like Sports Authority or Dick's Sporting Goods.  Ask for your shoe size, bring out one pair of boots, you try them on, if they're comfortable you're done.  No problem, except they'll be two sizes too big.  You need to go to a qualified and experienced boot fitter.

 

You do not necessarily need the services of a qualified and experienced boot fitter to get the right size boots. Instructions on how to correctly size your boots is available on this forum and easy to follow. If you choose to follow the advice of an inexperienced shop assistant, that's all on you.

 

You might need a boot fitter to fine tune your boots for comfort and performance, or you might not.

post #38 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireflyxchicka View Post
 

 

 

I'm definitely buying new boots, because I hate mine. They pinch no matter what I do with them. I never had that problem with any other pair. I'm less worried about the boots though. That should be a relatively simple decision. 

Have you taken them to a good boot fitter to be adjusted--assuming there is someone available to you? If you can get your foot into a boot chances are it can be ground and/or punched in the places that are too tight and made to fit. Too large is hard to fix. Or have you already done that? 

post #39 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 

 

You do not necessarily need the services of a qualified and experienced boot fitter to get the right size boots. Instructions on how to correctly size your boots is available on this forum and easy to follow. If you choose to follow the advice of an inexperienced shop assistant, that's all on you.

 

You might need a boot fitter to fine tune your boots for comfort and performance, or you might not.


Hmmm. Not sure instructions are that easy to follow if the guy "helping" you with the boot is actively offering contradictory instructions. Or zoning out. Most big box store folks would rather chew lint than do a shell fit, and even if they do it, they use the 1 1/2 -2 finger rule, which comes out as oh, roughly, 25-30 mm. They will actively warn you off anything snugger as "a racing fit." Moreover, not all problems with boots are about length. Different lasts for different foot shapes, and again, 20 year olds in a BBS generally have only a dim idea of how to fit ankles or insteps. What it comes down to, IMO, is that a qualified fitter knows vastly more to begin with, and will stand by their work, and redo when necessary, until it's right. Big box stores, not so much. Those tweaks are what make a decent fit great, and if you don't buy at the fitter's store, it's another $40-60 to show up for tweaks, even if the shell's the right fit. 

 

Speaking as someone who once upon a time figured he's save $50 by buying at a BBS, did a decent due diligence shell fit etc, went back for some minor punches and grinds, and "Uh, why is that place on my toe now translucent and I can push it in and out with my finger? Oh, the grinder nearly went through the shell? And, you don't replace boots damaged by mods because that's not covered by store policy and I should take it up with the chain?" :o So much fun in so little time. 

 

OP: Switching to shaped skis is like falling out of bed. Two days on the slopes and you'll wonder why you ever kept your old sticks as long as you did. 

post #40 of 48

What Beyond said.  Plus big box stores only really cater to people who have medium width feet.  The Sports Authority store here doesn't have anything narrower than 100mm and that's their idea of a narrow boot.

post #41 of 48
There are a whole range of options in between randomly buying a pair of boots from a teen shop assistant in a big box store, and potentially traveling to one of the rare, experienced, qualified boot fitters for multiple custom adjustments. Strangely both of these extremes portray the buyer as an uninformed bystander in the process.
post #42 of 48

It's not the "20 year old at the BBS" who "would rather chew lint than do a shell fit" that lead to folks buying boots too big, they just don't prevent it. People buy boots too big because they REFUSE to listen to reasonable advice on sizing, whine about their 'toe touches the end' or demand to know what "27.5 means, what is the corresponding shoe size???".  A good bootfitter who has a solid business simply sends them away without selling anything, they don't fix stupid.

 

Bootfitting someone who will buy the wrong thing no matter what:

 

Customer: "I'm thinking about new boots, mine hurt my toes. My friend says this pair is really good. Do you have it in a 10 1/2?"

Employee: "did you happen to bring your old boot with you? It would be great to see what is going on, often toes hurt due to movement in a boot that is too big"

Custy: "Oh, they definitely aren't too big. The last time I skied I got blisters on my ankle and they really hurt when I buckle them down really tight when I want to make really hard turns."

Employee: "Kinda sounds like they are too big, blisters are a sign of excess movement as is having to buckle them down tight."

Custy: "They definitely aren't too tight, I think I just need a better boot. I bought those at a swap and got a really good deal, but I am skiing more now and need a boot that is better for what I do. My friend bought these boots and he says they are really comfortable, he skis in the woods all the time and so do I. I need a boot that will be good for freeride skiing, this boot is supposed to be really good for that. Do you have it in a 10 1/2 or not? Is it on sale?"

Employee: "Let's not worry about what your friend wears and find the right boot for you. Hop up onto the bench and take your shoes off. Let's see what is going on with your feet and see what boot might work best for you."

Custy: "What does '26' mean? What size is that? Is it European or something?"

Employee: "It's called Mondopoint, it's a metric based sizing system, best not to worry about what it 'means' and just buy boots that fit."

Custy: "but what size is it? I wear 10 1/2 shoes. Is that 10 1/2?"

____________________________________________________

Employee after shell check: "OK this looks pretty good, I'm going to put the liner back in and have you slip your foot in. Here is the 'thing', ski boot liners compress with use. They compress quite a bit after just a few days skiing, so let's fit these boots so that they fit great after that initial 'break-in'. When your foot first goes into the boot your toes are going to be hitting the end of the liner, that is normal and good. It will take a little bit to get your heel back into the heel pocket, which will change the way your toes feel. Bear with me for a few moments. Let me buckle the cuff buckles and we'll have you stand up and flex the boot, that will start to move your heel back into the heel pocket of the boot. They will really start to feel different after 5 minutes as the liner warms and softens with your foot in the boot, remember: they will change a lot after a few days skiing. Let's make sure they continue to feel good as you ski in them.'

Custy; "OK, yeah I really want to make sure they perform great."

____________________________________________________

Custy: "My toes are really right against the end of the boot!"

Employee: "yeah, that's OK right now, let me buckle them and..."

Custy " I don't think these will work"

Employee; "seriously, let me buckle them, it will start to pull your heel back..."

Custy; 'I can't wear these my toes are curled up. These won't work"

Custy: "I just looked at EVO Gear on my phone and it says a 26 mondopoint is a size 8!!! I can't wear a size 8!! Why are you trying to sell me the wrong size? If you didn't have a 10 1/2 you should have just told me... you sales people are all alike. They have my size and it's on sale"

Employee: "I am going to go stick my head in the microwave and turn it on."


Edited by Whiteroom - 3/10/16 at 8:17am
post #43 of 48

I skied straight skis until about 5 years ago, then switched. I never upgraded mostly due to limited time on the slopes due to having kids. My old straight skis worked fine for me, but I am an expert skier. I always carved my turns to a degree, so rolling a ski on edge was part of my skill set. The new skies are just plain easier to ski, no matter how you do it. If you tend to roll your skis on edge to turn, the new skis make it so much easier. You don't need any pivot motion for the most part. I adapted after about 4 turns on shaped skis, you will too. There will be a period of refinement, as you discover what your new skis will and won't do for your particular style, but its no big deal and part of the fun.

 

New skis are specialized now, so its a PITA to figure out which pair you will like. Demo is helpful and buying a good all mountain ski is a safe bet. Don't overthink it, there aren't many "lemons" anymore, so its hard to make a bad decision if you get a "popular" modern ski  (there is always the super discount rack that you should stay away from at this point). After buying 5 pairs of modern skis, I think I like the all mountain pair the best because I don't have to think about if they will be good in the conditions for that day. Just get on em and go.

 

Don't be afraid to go longer than recommended, within reason. For some reason having too long a ski is a big deal now. I find having too short a ski a problem, I am 6'4", so that is probably something I don't relate to well. But the better skier you are, the more you will want a slightly longer ski.

 

My son just got new skis, I researched a lot for him, that's me, he wanted skis that looked cool. I found a pair that performed off the charts and looked cool. He really liked them and skied well on them and I bought them for him. All is happy in our house. They were Liberty Origin 96 mm skis. They are very different than a straight ski, they are fully rockered but ski like a race ski for turning and grip. A good combo for the East Coast. I skied them and they feel like a 70 mm wide ski on ice and a 88 mm ski on soft snow. They use bamboo and wood for the core and are extremely light for their size. Lots of good choices and good  recommendations from others. I hope this helps with your search. 
 

post #44 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
 

It's not the "20 year old at the BBS" who "would rather chew lint than do a shell fit" that lead to folks buying boots too big, they just don't prevent it. People buy boots too big because they REFUSE to listen to reasonable advice on sizing, whine about their 'toe touches the end' or demand to know what "27.5 means, what is the corresponding shoe size???".  A good bootfitter who has a solid business simply sends them away without selling anything, they don't fix stupid.

 

Bootfitting someone who will buy the wrong thing no matter what:

 

Customer: "I'm thinking about new boots, mine hurt my toes. My friend says this pair is really good. Do you have it in a 10 1/2?"

Employee: "did you happen to bring your old boot with you? It would be great to see what is going on, often toes hurt due to movement in a boot that is too big"

Custy: "Oh, they definitely aren't too big. The last time I skied I got blisters on my ankle and they really hurt when I buckle them down really tight when I want to make really hard turns."

Employee: "Kinda sounds like they are too big, blisters are a sign of excess movement as is having to buckle them down tight."

Custy: "They definitely aren't too tight, I think I just need a better boot. I bought those at a swap and got a really good deal, but I am skiing more now and need a boot that is better for what I do. My friend bought these boots and he says they are really comfortable, he skis in the woods all the time and so do I. I need a boot that will be good for freeride skiing, this boot is supposed to be really good for that. Do you have it in a 10 1/2 or not? Is it on sale?"

Employee: "Let's not worry about what your friend wears and find the right boot for you. Hop up onto the bench and take your shoes off. Let's see what is going on with your feet and see what boot might work best for you."

Custy: "What does '26' mean? What size is that? Is it European or something?"

Employee: "It's called Mondopoint, it's a metric based sizing system, best not to worry about what it 'means' and just buy boots that fit."

Custy: "but what size is it? I wear 10 1/2 shoes. Is that 10 1/2?"

____________________________________________________

Employee after shell check: "OK this looks pretty good, I'm going to put the liner back in and have you slip your foot in. Here is the 'thing', ski boot liners compress with use. They compress quite a bit after just a few days skiing, so let's fit these boots so that they fit great after that initial 'break-in'. When your foot first goes into the boot your toes are going to be hitting the end of the liner, that is normal and good. It will take a little bit to get your heel back into the heel pocket, which will change the way your toes feel. Bear with me for a few moments. Let me buckle the cuff buckles and we'll have you stand up and flex the boot, that will start to move your heel back into the heel pocket of the boot. They will really start to feel different after 5 minutes as the liner warms and softens with your foot in the boot, remember: they will change a lot after a few days skiing. Let's make sure they continue to feel good as you ski in them.'

Custy; "OK, yeah I really want to make sure they perform great."

____________________________________________________

Custy: "My toes are really right against the end of the boot!"

Employee: "yeah, that's OK right now, let me buckle them and..."

Custy " I don't think these will work"

Employee; "seriously, let me buckle them, it will start to pull your heel back..."

Custy; 'I can't wear these my toes are curled up. These won't work"

Custy: "I just looked at EVO Gear on my phone and it says a 26 mondopoint is a size 8!!! I can't wear a size 8!! Why are you trying to sell me the wrong size? If you didn't have a 10 1/2 you should have just told me... you sales people are all alike. They have my size and it's on sale"

Employee: "I am going to go stick my head in the microwave and turn it on."

:ROTF This is the best read I've had in weeks. Point taken, yep I don't tend to look at it from the retail POV, and happen to have a lot of big box stores staffed by college students around.

 

Mr Golf: Obviously, it's an artificial polarization. But look at it this way: I know a decent amount about boots, a lot about my foot anatomy, and have been wearing various models of various brands for over a half century. And I'm not stuck in my ways; hell, I owned the very first Lange, first year. (Hideous boot.) So I show up knowing roughly what I need, sure. For all that, brands change, and it's not a bad thing to try out the general model on someone good, the "is this still the boot for me, what's brand XXX been up to?" But more to the point,  I still need all the help I can get from a higher end fitter at a recognized shop to get the fit really dialed in. Keywords: "Higher end." People like Whiteroom who really know what the f*** they're doing. Any larger resort has several. Some non-resort shops may qualify too, depends. "Recognized shop" meaning not just any random slopeside store, where the staff are surely competent, but IMHO a place that also deals with better skiers and racers and gets regional or national recognition for solving problems. A place that Epic members will give a shout out to. "Dialed in." Meaning not just fits well, but actually improves my skiing sans discomfort, actually contributes to those ah hah! moments during our lesson or race or powder run. Now, are these places worth an extra 10-20%, say, and giving ourselves up to the fitter's skill sets rather than showing up armed with how it should be? Well, you spend how many K per year skiing and buying gear? And how much of our emotional energy and discretionary time is tied up in the sport, how much is a really good day worth to you? So is all that equivalent to an extra $100-200, spread over say 5 years, to have a boot and fit that's truly optimal, not just good, and that requires some help from an expert? That's one mediocre lunch for 1-2 at a typical resort, per year. Seriously. Costs and benefits, man. 

 

Or maybe that's what your saying too, and we agree. :dunno 

post #45 of 48
Thread Starter 

Well, I demoed skis tonight. They had a pretty limited selection. The first ones were K2 Konic 78Ti - 170cm. They just felt clunky to me. It was a combination of long, broad, and heavy. The second ones were Salomon Constellation Cira series - 161cm. They felt pretty good on the slower runs but just didn't have the stability at higher speeds. The last ones were K2 Luv Machine 74Ti - 153cm. Those were the best of the lot. The stability at high speeds was more like what I'm used to and overall, it didn't feel too drastically different. I think I could adapt to those or something like them.

post #46 of 48

My wife has demoed skis a good bit over the years.  Now obviously things do change, but she always thought K2s were kind of "dead" feeling.  She has always liked Fischers, which tend to be a bit higher in energy. Her latest ate Blizzard Sambs, which seem to cover all the bases for her.  As BTTOCS said, most skis are good these days, a lot of it comes down to how they feel to YOU, and if they are to YOUR taste.

As you found out, even skis within the same brand can feel different.  

Not surprised you found 170cm skis kind of clunky feeling....:o

post #47 of 48
Depends on what you like. I like k2's. "Forgiving", "damp", "reliable". It's all in what you like. I like the fact that they're bored by chickenheads and ignore them, rather than conveying all that chatter to my legs. But, some people like more "pop". To me it's undesirable. I like to ignore my skis.
post #48 of 48

Yeah, I can see when ignoring chickenheads can be a virtue :D

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