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Sharpen Edges Without Waxing?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

I use a diamond stone with an edge tool.  Can I sharpen edges without waxing?  My wax is still good but the edges have a burr.

post #2 of 16
Sure. I'll touch up the edges with a diamond stone every day, but wax only every 4-6 days.
post #3 of 16

I do something similar too. The only rule I have regarding the order of things is to not sharpen after waxing without having skied on them. You would get a bunch of wax on your guide if you did that.

post #4 of 16

Actually, I do all the sharpening with wax on ;) You don't damage the base, and to avoid getting problems sliding guide over wax, you just put tape over the base.

Otherwise yes, you can easily do sharpening without waxing, but assuming edges are not good, while wax is still ok is wrong ;) Wax goes faster then edges, so if you edges are bad, your wax is gone too :)

post #5 of 16

I never tune with wax on.   If I'm doing a full tune (with files) I use base tape.  But how did your edges get toasted and still have wax intact?


Edited by Atomicman - 3/6/16 at 1:34pm
post #6 of 16
He says the edges have a burr. Maybe he hit a rock or maybe he didn't deburr well the last time he did the skis.
post #7 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

He says the edges have a burr. Maybe he hit a rock or maybe he didn't deburr well the last time he did the skis.

So I have 2 questions?

 

#1 If he hit a rock, he skied on the skis and probably not much wax left. 

 

#2, If he didn't deburr well last time, why did he wax his skis with poorly done edges?

 

 

Whatever the case brush 'em out. Get all the wax off you can (NO need for wax remover IMHO) and then do the edges!

post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 

No rock, only skied on hardpack/ice due to old snow.  I checked the base and the wax was still good, (yes, I know how to check). The burr was for entire edge that is contacting the snow.

post #9 of 16

If you think wax is still ok, then fine, but thing is, if you did more then one run, wax is not ok ;) In good conditions (hardpack/ice is not really great snow to keep wax on longer), wax is gone way earlier then you think. So I'm pretty sure you need wax job as well as edge sharpening.

Atomicman when I wrote I do tunning with wax on, I meant thin (and of course completely flat) layer transport/storage wax not race wax. So once edges are done, wax goes off and only then race wax goes on the ski.

post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post
 

Actually, I do all the sharpening with wax on ;) You don't damage the base, and to avoid getting problems sliding guide over wax, you just put tape over the base.

Otherwise yes, you can easily do sharpening without waxing, but assuming edges are not good, while wax is still ok is wrong ;) Wax goes faster then edges, so if you edges are bad, your wax is gone too :)


Are you saying you set your edges after you wax ? Because that's how it reads.

 

Or are you saying you don't use wax remover before you set the edges after skiing ?

 

I and I think most of us don't use wax remover either.

 

After skiing and before I'm going to wax, that's when I verify my bases are flat, then run a moonflex down the base edges in a 1* base guide to knock off any high spots, then set the side edges at 3*, then I wax.

post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post
 

If you think wax is still ok, then fine, but thing is, if you did more then one run, wax is not ok ;) In good conditions (hardpack/ice is not really great snow to keep wax on longer), wax is gone way earlier then you think. So I'm pretty sure you need wax job as well as edge sharpening.

Atomicman when I wrote I do tunning with wax on, I meant thin (and of course completely flat) layer transport/storage wax not race wax. So once edges are done, wax goes off and only then race wax goes on the ski.


I think your saying you leave some of the transport/storage wax on, before you set the edges.

 

Why don't you tune the edges before you put storage wax on ?

 

At the end of the season, I make sure the edges are sharp for opening day before I put on the summer wax.

 

In fact I don't use yellow wax for that, I put on the same wax I use for everyday skiing, Dominator Hyperzoom. That way, no matter what temperature the snow is next season the skis have the right wax on them. 

 

May be its just me, but IMO your going to have a thin layer of wax that is going to raise the angle of the edge guide and not give you a correct angle.

post #12 of 16
In the real, imperfect world, edge touch ups are more important than wax. Sure a full tune is best, but if you don't have the time, energy, or tools with you, touching up rock hits with a diamond stone is a reasonable thing to do.
post #13 of 16

Once I'm done with skiing, skis get waxed (now it's Swix BP88 or BP77 depending on skis, before when I was still in WC it was normally some of HF, depending if they were cold or warm skis)... I'm talking about daily use, not for end of winter stuff, but it's not different either even if it's end of winter. Then I remove wax from edges (regardless if edges need to be done or not) and that's it. With proper iron, right amount of wax, and well maintained ski, which soak up wax evenly, you create thin layer of wax evenly over ptex. Yes, it's above edge, but once your tune is done, you hardly every touch edge from bottom/ptex side (except with diamond and ceramic, but these are freehand with not guides anyway), and most if not all, of edge work is from side. For side it doesn't really matter if guide is on ptex or on layer of wax (still it's less then 1mm thin), as angle is same.

Why I do this way? Well nowadays it's useless, except I need to return skis in kinda right shape on the end of season, but before when I was still in racing business, it was to make skis faster. You simply don't want any dirt, and there's a lot of it when filing, to come in contact with clean ptex. Tape helps a bit, then no matter how good that tape is, it leaves some residue on ptex, and you don't want that either. So only real solution for this is to have wax layer on, then you put tape over (to allow guide to slide easier over wax) and you start filing.

post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post
 

Once I'm done with skiing, skis get waxed (now it's Swix BP88 or BP77 depending on skis, before when I was still in WC it was normally some of HF, depending if they were cold or warm skis)... I'm talking about daily use, not for end of winter stuff, but it's not different either even if it's end of winter. Then I remove wax from edges (regardless if edges need to be done or not) and that's it. With proper iron, right amount of wax, and well maintained ski, which soak up wax evenly, you create thin layer of wax evenly over ptex. Yes, it's above edge, but once your tune is done, you hardly every touch edge from bottom/ptex side (except with diamond and ceramic, but these are freehand with not guides anyway), and most if not all, of edge work is from side. For side it doesn't really matter if guide is on ptex or on layer of wax (still it's less then 1mm thin), as angle is same.

Why I do this way? Well nowadays it's useless, except I need to return skis in kinda right shape on the end of season, but before when I was still in racing business, it was to make skis faster. You simply don't want any dirt, and there's a lot of it when filing, to come in contact with clean ptex. Tape helps a bit, then no matter how good that tape is, it leaves some residue on ptex, and you don't want that either. So only real solution for this is to have wax layer on, then you put tape over (to allow guide to slide easier over wax) and you start filing.


Ok, I guess in theory the height the guide rides down the flat base doesn't matter, it should still be held at the correct angle.

post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmpotash View Post
 

I use a diamond stone with an edge tool.  Can I sharpen edges without waxing?  My wax is still good but the edges have a burr.


Absolutely.  Edges need to be free of wax anyway when you do that.  Wax clogs the stones.  Smooth the burrs first.  Then wax.

post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis256 View Post
 

I do something similar too. The only rule I have regarding the order of things is to not sharpen after waxing without having skied on them. You would get a bunch of wax on your guide if you did that.


You need to scrape and brush better!   If you do that then you can tune all you like. 

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