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Head Rebel ruined my Demo Day.

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

Me, 68, 180lbs, level 7 or 8 depending on the terrain, love high speed carving. Very aggressive.

 

I have been looking to demo racing cheater skis for a couple of years but never found any to try. Can you believe at our little 300 ft hill in Ohio most of the manufactures show up with cheater skis. I start of with trying skis under  the cheaters from Head (titan) , (I race) Rossignol, and Blizzard. They are all good, hold ice, carve well but not much difference compared to my skis. No Wow factor for me. 

 

Now it is time to try the 2 skis I have zeroed in on. Head Rebel World Cup SL and World Cup Rebel I speed. These are the cheaters just below the FIS skis. I wanted the Head I speed in the 180 to try and they had it. 

 

First run on the SL at 165 and I was in heaven. I haven't been on a racing SL for about 20 years and my thought was I would never be able to bend one correctly. On my 300 ft hill these things just carve it up. Make any size turn you want, very good rebound at my new weight of 180 and at 41 MPH (according to ski tracks app) absolutely rock solid. I will buy this ski in a 170 for the East. I have been told by several good skiers to buy a racing SL for the east and I see why.

 

Next up is the Rebel I speed. (Rebel Cheater GS) Its like a new world opened up for me. I am back to the feelings, fun and excitement of my Volkl P9 days. The energy feel is incredible. The rebound dynamic. The edge hold is glued to the snow and I mean glued. The ski as described by reviews is play full and exciting and it is all of that. It does not demand any turn shape but wants to stay in a carve just to make you smile and grin. I am in love!

 

World Cup Rebel SL 165 11.5 radius

World Cup Rebel GS I Speed 180 18 radius, both skis are full camber, no rockers here!

 

The skis have been totally redesigned for next year. I talked to a shop owner I know and he thought the new skis were to stiff compared to this years models. Has anyone skied both? I can get a deal on this years model.

 

So now my skis are not so much fun and I am bummed as I have to wait 9 months to get on these skis. There is no way I will not own these skis for next year!

post #2 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post
 

Me, 68, 180lbs, level 7 or 8 depending on the terrain, love high speed carving. Very aggressive.

 

I have been looking to demo racing cheater skis for a couple of years but never found any to try. Can you believe at our little 300 ft hill in Ohio most of the manufactures show up with cheater skis. I start of with trying skis under  the cheaters from Head (titan) , (I race) Rossignol, and Blizzard. They are all good, hold ice, carve well but not much difference compared to my skis. No Wow factor for me. 

 

Now it is time to try the 2 skis I have zeroed in on. Head Rebel World Cup SL and World Cup Rebel I speed. These are the cheaters just below the FIS skis. I wanted the Head I speed in the 180 to try and they had it. 

 

First run on the SL at 165 and I was in heaven. I haven't been on a racing SL for about 20 years and my thought was I would never be able to bend one correctly. On my 300 ft hill these things just carve it up. Make any size turn you want, very good rebound at my new weight of 180 and at 41 MPH (according to ski tracks app) absolutely rock solid. I will buy this ski in a 170 for the East. I have been told by several good skiers to buy a racing SL for the east and I see why.

 

Next up is the Rebel I speed. (Rebel Cheater GS) Its like a new world opened up for me. I am back to the feelings, fun and excitement of my Volkl P9 days. The energy feel is incredible. The rebound dynamic. The edge hold is glued to the snow and I mean glued. The ski as described by reviews is play full and exciting and it is all of that. It does not demand any turn shape but wants to stay in a carve just to make you smile and grin. I am in love!

 

World Cup Rebel SL 165 11.5 radius

World Cup Rebel GS I Speed 180 18 radius, both skis are full camber, no rockers here!

 

The skis have been totally redesigned for next year. I talked to a shop owner I know and he thought the new skis were to stiff compared to this years models. Has anyone skied both? I can get a deal on this years model.

 

So now my skis are not so much fun and I am bummed as I have to wait 9 months to get on these skis. There is no way I will not own these skis for next year!

 

Wow!  Your bromance with Volkl is over!

post #3 of 29
Thread Starter 
Tell me about it surprise surprise all these years
post #4 of 29
Anyone have details on the redesign of Head i.speed for next year? I saw the 2017 model on the hill a few days ago. Graphics a little cleaner and tip is broader (more square, less round) but wondering if fundamental construction and stiffness changed radically.

How do people like these versus Fischer rc4 cheater? I have the 2005 Fischer cheater in 180cm and love it. But looking for a new ski and, let's be honest the head looks bada$$. But is it too damp? I love the lively rebound of the Fischer rc4
post #5 of 29
Why buy next year's if this year's are available? The demos should be up for sale shortly. I'm puzzled.
Edited by markojp - 3/2/16 at 12:06pm
post #6 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonD999 View Post

Anyone have details on the redesign of Head i.speed for next year? I saw the 2017 model on the hill a few days ago. Graphics a little cleaner and tip is broader (more square, less round) but wondering if fundamental construction and stiffness changed radically.

How do people like these versus Fischer rc4 cheater? I have the 2005 Fischer cheater in 180cm and love it. But looking for a new ski and, let's be honest the head looks bada$$. But is it too damp? I love the lively rebound of the Fischer rc4


Are you asking about the Rebels i.Speed {the classic cheater} or the SuperShape i.Speed?  Head certainly makes things confusing enough with their model names! Very different skis. I have a call into two people who I think will know.....concerning the race cheater model. Will post when I find out. I've owned three generations of the ski. Big fan. 

 

And glad that Levy1 has been "ruined" by such a great experience! 

post #7 of 29
Interested in the Rebels

2017s look cool and the square tip I think gives more usable edge. But if radically different construction and stiffness then might, or not, think about the 2016, especially because cheaper
post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

A why buy next year's if this year's are available? The demos should be up for sale shortly. I'm puzzled.


Agree. This year's ski is a good one. At least the I.speed cheater, which is one of my go-to's. I also think this is, sadly for those in the business, going to be an incredible year to be buying. My daughter has just bought an entirely new AT set up. She lives in CO. All of this bought back East, at cost, from a couple of guys that we know who just want to move a lot of leftover inventory. No much of an AT year in New England. 

 

I am a big Head fan. I hope that the changes to the ski are pretty minor. I hate messing with success. I'll report back. 

post #9 of 29
I haven't skied the new Titan yet, but even with the changes it should still feel familiar to those who ski the current one according to a friend who has a pair of the 17's. Haven't heard about changes to the Rebels iSpeed, but will ask.
post #10 of 29
I'm confused too, did you ski the Rebel GS (cheater GS) at the demo or the I-Speed? Regarding the SL and GS Rebels, were both these skis the Non RD models?

I just got a Rally (177 cm) and love it. Skied it at Vail two weeks ago . Have a Magnum(170 cm) for skiing here in SW. Pa. It looks like the Head SL might be the way to go here in Pa. With typical icy conditions.

Head making IMHO super skis and offer a number of great choices for the typical firm conditions we have here in the east.

Thanks for sharing your demo experience.
post #11 of 29

He skied the Rebel i.Speed GS, in a 180cm.  That is their "cheater GS".  185cm is the longest length built. 18M radius. White ski, black lettering. 112/66/94 @ 180cm

 

Head makes his VERY confusing for some, by also having a  "i.SuperShape Speed" model. That model comes in two longer lengths, 174cm and 184cm. 184cm radius is 16M. Black with yellow lettering. 120/67/99. 

 

Pretty different skis, but still cousins. The Supershape is more of slim carver/cruiser. Big difference to me is that the Rebel has no rocker at all. I.Speed has some tip rocker. Not much, but some. 

 

In my experience, what most people refer to the "i.Speed", they're talking about the cheater.....

 

They do have a a VERY full lineup. Confuses a LOT of people, even shop employees. Pretty funny to hear the less experienced ones trying to describe the lineup.  

post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post
 

Me, 68, 180lbs, level 7 or 8 depending on the terrain, love high speed carving. Very aggressive.

 

I have been looking to demo racing cheater skis for a couple of years but never found any to try. Can you believe at our little 300 ft hill in Ohio most of the manufactures show up with cheater skis. I start of with trying skis under  the cheaters from Head (titan) , (I race) Rossignol, and Blizzard. They are all good, hold ice, carve well but not much difference compared to my skis. No Wow factor for me. 

 

Now it is time to try the 2 skis I have zeroed in on. Head Rebel World Cup SL and World Cup Rebel I speed. These are the cheaters just below the FIS skis. I wanted the Head I speed in the 180 to try and they had it. 

 

First run on the SL at 165 and I was in heaven. I haven't been on a racing SL for about 20 years and my thought was I would never be able to bend one correctly. On my 300 ft hill these things just carve it up. Make any size turn you want, very good rebound at my new weight of 180 and at 41 MPH (according to ski tracks app) absolutely rock solid. I will buy this ski in a 170 for the East. I have been told by several good skiers to buy a racing SL for the east and I see why.

 

Next up is the Rebel I speed. (Rebel Cheater GS) Its like a new world opened up for me. I am back to the feelings, fun and excitement of my Volkl P9 days. The energy feel is incredible. The rebound dynamic. The edge hold is glued to the snow and I mean glued. The ski as described by reviews is play full and exciting and it is all of that. It does not demand any turn shape but wants to stay in a carve just to make you smile and grin. I am in love!

 

World Cup Rebel SL 165 11.5 radius

World Cup Rebel GS I Speed 180 18 radius, both skis are full camber, no rockers here!

 

The skis have been totally redesigned for next year. I talked to a shop owner I know and he thought the new skis were to stiff compared to this years models. Has anyone skied both? I can get a deal on this years model.

 

So now my skis are not so much fun and I am bummed as I have to wait 9 months to get on these skis. There is no way I will not own these skis for next year!


Fred.  Dont out think yourself AGAIN and end up with another ski you dont like!.  Get the slalom in 165 NOT 170!   You liked it and it did everything AND 165 is the length it is designed for.   Why on earth would you get the 170??????

post #13 of 29
Thread Starter 
I was confused for quite a while myself. There is the regular ispeed then there is the rebel ispeed which is a GS cheater Ski.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post

 
Me, 68, 180lbs, level 7 or 8 depending on the terrain, love high speed carving. Very aggressive.

I have been looking to demo racing cheater skis for a couple of years but never found any to try. Can you believe at our little 300 ft hill in Ohio most of the manufactures show up with cheater skis. I start of with trying skis under  the cheaters from Head (titan) , (I race) Rossignol, and Blizzard. They are all good, hold ice, carve well but not much difference compared to my skis. No Wow factor for me. 

Now it is time to try the 2 skis I have zeroed in on. Head Rebel World Cup SL and World Cup Rebel I speed. These are the cheaters just below the FIS skis. I wanted the Head I speed in the 180 to try and they had it. 

First run on the SL at 165 and I was in heaven. I haven't been on a racing SL for about 20 years and my thought was I would never be able to bend one correctly. On my 300 ft hill these things just carve it up. Make any size turn you want, very good rebound at my new weight of 180 and at 41 MPH (according to ski tracks app) absolutely rock solid. I will buy this ski in a 170 for the East. I have been told by several good skiers to buy a racing SL for the east and I see why.

Next up is the Rebel I speed. (Rebel Cheater GS) Its like a new world opened up for me. I am back to the feelings, fun and excitement of my Volkl P9 days. The energy feel is incredible. The rebound dynamic. The edge hold is glued to the snow and I mean glued. The ski as described by reviews is play full and exciting and it is all of that. It does not demand any turn shape but wants to stay in a carve just to make you smile and grin. I am in love!

World Cup Rebel SL 165 11.5 radius
World Cup Rebel GS I Speed 180 18 radius, both skis are full camber, no rockers here!

The skis have been totally redesigned for next year. I talked to a shop owner I know and he thought the new skis were to stiff compared to this years models. Has anyone skied both? I can get a deal on this years model.

So now my skis are not so much fun and I am bummed as I have to wait 9 months to get on these skis. There is no way I will not own these skis for next year!


Fred.  Dont out think yourself AGAIN and end up with another ski you dont like!.  Get the slalom in 165 NOT 170!   You liked it and it did everything AND 165 is the length it is designed for.   Why on earth would you get the 170??????

Well Scott, that is the consumer SL race and it is pretty soft for a SL racing ski, (by my new standards) not twitchy or nervous in the least. What we have out here in NY, Pa and Ohio are crowed slopes with short openings to open it up a little and then back to a tight crowd. You look for the openings where you can open it up, let it fly and then quick shut it down. Since the ski was so easy ski I thought I would go for the 170 for free skiing. But I always digress to your experience and expertise.
post #14 of 29

OK, at the risk of being REALLY redundant, in terms of the "i.Speed':

 

There is an "Head World Cup Rebels i.Speed", which is the current iteration of the GS cheater that they have made for years. It's a white ski, and it the longer lengths are 175cm, 180cm, 185cm. I noted the dimensions a few posts ago. This is the GS-like cheater. Same layup as their consumer, store bought race stock GS skis. NO ROCKER. 

 

The other ski is branded as the "i.SuperShape Speed".  This one is the ski in the SuperShape frontside, hard snow, carver series with the thinnest waist. 67mm waist. Wider tip and tail than the cheater. Has a different layup, but still a pretty beefy one. It has some SLIGHT TIP ROCKER. The ski is black with white lettering, yellow accents. Come in a bunch of lengths. 177cm, 184cm are two. 

 

Hope that helps, again, in figuring out which is which. Quite different skis. I think Levy is dialed in on the 180cm Rebels i.Speed. 

 

As far as the SL. I think we're discussing the i.SL "non RD" model as opposed to the "i.SL RD".  {RD is Race Department}. The i.SL RD is built to FIS specs, and max length is a 165cm. The non RD model comes in a 170cm as well, and the ski has a slightly shorter turn radius. My impression is that the layup is pretty much the same. If anything the non-RD is a bit softer. It skis softer as it has a different plate as well. Still a lot of ski. There's a pretty good Ski Prophet video competing the two {2015 skis..unchanged for 2016} on line.  I would say that the non-RD is NOT a race ski, but more of a hard snow ice skate. 

 

My impression is that the 170cm and 165cm ski very similarly. I know a number of people who love this ski as a N.E. real hard snow carver for situations such as Levy describes....

 

I am huge fan of Head skis, but they sure do have a lot of very similar skis in their lineup. It gets confusing...at least for me.

post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post

I was confused for quite a while myself. There is the regular ispeed then there is the rebel ispeed which is a GS cheater Ski.
Well Scott, that is the consumer SL race and it is pretty soft for a SL racing ski, (by my new standards) not twitchy or nervous in the least. What we have out here in NY, Pa and Ohio are crowed slopes with short openings to open it up a little and then back to a tight crowd. You look for the openings where you can open it up, let it fly and then quick shut it down. Since the ski was so easy ski I thought I would go for the 170 for free skiing. But I always digress to your experience and expertise.

You really should defer... you skied the correct length in a ski you clearly connected with. Stop shopping.
post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muleski View Post

...

I am huge fan of Head skis, but they sure do have a lot of very similar skis in their lineup. It gets confusing...at least for me.


There's also a Rebels iSpeed 'pro' which is a rare beast n this side of the ocean... A bit beefier and ships with the regular WC race plate. smile.gif
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 

Get the slalom in 165 NOT 170!   You liked it and it did everything AND 165 is the length it is designed for. 

This. They don't get better as they get longer. 

post #18 of 29

Anybody got pictures of the 17' Rebel I Speed? Curious to see the tip profile you are talking about.
 

post #19 of 29
Throwing my 2 cents in the fray..... As an Atomic FIS SL driver for the last 4 Seasons, I had to test drive the Heads as well-

I bought a set of 165 FIS RD's and Find them truly outright faster and cleaner in moderate crud more predictable (in a good way) than the Atomics

My son and I have now done several side by side Drag races with the Identicle base .5/3 tune same wax and same structure and the Heads top end is about 10% better than the Atomics. ...This is free ski (not gates). Love the dang things and can't find a fault. Still the Atomics might be quicker edge to edge- not sure why- Maybe it's the damping that makes the Head feel slightly less quick -but more locked in

Oh, Just what I need- a ski that's even faster... Things are insane enough already!


Great Boards! Head World Cup Rebels FIS iSL RD. 165 CM 2014-2015.

PS. Beyond is right, They don't get better longer!

My son is 6'4" 240 in his ski junk... I'm 197 and 5'11". More lenght is just wrong - and contrary to the point of an SL
post #20 of 29

2017 - Cheater GS - 180cm, R=18.0m

tip profile as shown:

 

 

 

post #21 of 29
Thread Starter 
That's the one I was on.
post #22 of 29
Thread Starter 
post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 

These are three pictures of the ski the ones I demoed. The picture before is the correct picture of the tip which is extremely ugly but hey who looks at the tip when you are flying.
Head I speed rebel non rd
No can anyone tell us the difference between the construction on the 2017 which I skied vs the crop that's out now
post #24 of 29
Buy the one you skied. You liked it. Stop shopping before you devolve and rationalize yourself back into an older Volkl. smile.gif
post #25 of 29

Jumping on the Head bandwagon ...

 

So I'm a lifelong Volkl fan going back to the mid 80's, and have been on every WC GS & SL ski in one form or another since.  I was fortunate enough to work with Head starting two seasons ago, and at the time remember thinking whether I sold my soul for a 'deal'.  Nope - I absolutely LOVE the RD I.SL's.  Not that SL skis are very versatile anymore, but these definitely have a higher speed limit than any other WC SL ski I've been on in the last 10 years.  The GS skis are equally impressive.

 

I haven't been on the non-RD SL ski (very confusing names) , but the 170cm isn't just 5cm longer but also stiffer.  I have to agree that if you liked the 165cm get the 165cm.  It seems strange to me to have a longer SL ski that skis more like a GS (than a true SL) and a shorter GS ski that skis more like a SL (than a true GS ski) ... unless of course you're trying to get away with one pair of skis, but who the hell does that?!


Edited by Woodee - 3/3/16 at 9:28am
post #26 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Buy the one you skied. You liked it. Stop shopping before you devolve and rationalize yourself back into an older Volkl. smile.gif
I resemble that remark
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Buy the one you skied. You liked it. Stop shopping before you devolve and rationalize yourself back into an older Volkl. smile.gif

 

 

Seriously.

 

Get the ski you actually experienced and liked, not one you might not like.

 

The last thing you want to do is devolve - trust me, I know.

post #28 of 29
Just got back from a day on the 165 FIS iSL RD's ! - These things ARE a GS ski in disguise !!

Skied with friends on thier GS Atomics..... Fast crowd, -but not fast enough !

.... Light choppy granular ice under refrozen eastern crud ....on a cloudy day in the high 20s.

Hauling A at speed of stupid- The guys on the Atomics were letting up.

The Little Heads were rock solid and ripping long GS arcs at low edge angles with a competent locked in feel so much so that I never felt the need to let up....

Yes, they will run with GS skis at irresponsible speeds in crudy conditions with ridiculous stability.....

An FAA low level aerobatic checkride should be the first requirement. .....Without that they should be illegal

......I'm uprading my helmet. ...and re-packing my 'chute
Edited by Just Rip It - 3/3/16 at 7:59pm
post #29 of 29
Thread Starter 
Now you're talking my ispeed
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