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Rossignol Blizzard Volkl Ski Defects? Which Manufacturers are Having Problems? - Page 2

post #31 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post
 


You can't compare hotbox and iron. With iron, -

I wasn't.

post #32 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSkiDad View Post
Heating and cooling the core glues just seems like a very bad idea to me.

True. That's why I wrote long heating, even if it's few degrees less then with iron, is worse then few fast passes with hot iron, where ski gets heated for relatively short period and heat doesn't come to core of the ski. And no, there's absolutely no need, except making damage to ski, to heat core of the ski :)


To each his own.  I've never had any skis fail, fall apart, loose shape or otherwise.

post #33 of 44


Skis that get run into gates, particularly slaloms have tip delam and twist problems frequently.

Free skis suffer from center and front half delams from bumps or static flexion.

A strong guy can hurt a ski by putting the tail on the ground and flexing it by hand to "check its flex".

It is pretty hard to hurt them by skiing.

Crashes, sure.

post #34 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha407 View Post

I just picked up a new pair of Nordica Fire Arrows today. Put them base-to-base, just for fun, and there's a good 2mm gap at one corner. Oh, well, I'm not going to worry about it.

Also checked my other skis: Nordica GSRs are perfect, and Nordica FIS SLs have maybe a 1mm gap, but it closes with nearly zero pressure. Never noticed anything odd while skiing it for the past season, so not going to worry about it either. smile.gif

 

I use a FIS blizz SL for one of my kids. A pair of '13 model yr for training, brand new for race day.  The brand new Blizz came twisted.  Not terribly, but enough to have lift of the tail and tip (opposing sides).

 

A couple of weeks ago we had a series of 4 SL races.  2 sat, 2 sun.  Friday training the kid looked good on the training set.  Saturday.  slightly twisted Blizz.  Terrible.  Turn shape -- terrible in both races.  I switched kid to the flat-not-twisted blizz training set for Sunday's race.  The training set was not in great condition.  Results -- Turn shape MUCH better.  2 seconds faster (in both races) against the same kids kid raced the day before.

 

There are lots of possible reasons for the improvement.  One has to be the twisted ski.  I don't use it anymore.

 

I test junior race stock skis -- lots of them.  Probably more than anyone. timed on courses. then switch to another ski same course.  then switch kid on ski, same day same process.  5 kids that get faster on one ski speaks volumes.  Based on my testing, I think a twisted ski is a BIG disadvantage in performance. 


Edited by SteveSkiDad - 3/9/16 at 7:33am
post #35 of 44
post #36 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 

Here are some links in reference to Hot Boxing.

 

http://granitechief.com/blog/hot-box-waxing-vs-iron-waxing-vs-belt-waxing/

 

 

  Personally I won't even store my skis outside in a garage during the summer due to heat / structure changes.  This seems a little scary to me so I have never done it.  I would agree that there might be an advantage as to how much wax soaks into the base.  The down side is that skis are made of many different materials, and glue.  Those materials have a life which can be shortened by heat.  This doesn't seem like a great idea long term but might have some short term advantages.

post #37 of 44

I'm also concerned about the impact of high heat on bindings, concern that the grease will melt and run out... Or if you remove the bindings over and over does it compromise the integrity of the screw holes... unless you use quiver killers?

post #38 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 

I'm also concerned about the impact of high heat on bindings, concern that the grease will melt and run out... Or if you remove the bindings over and over does it compromise the integrity of the screw holes... unless you use quiver killers?

 

 

Here is what I found just quickly;

Polyethylene distorts at 172F http://www.sdplastics.com/hdpesheet.html

Carbon fiber gets soft around 200 F <- we don't use carbon fiber but a carbon laminate.  I am sure that has a softer distortion temperature.  

 

Yep not going to use a hot box anytime soon.

post #39 of 44

If you read the threads Jacques posted, the hotbox temperature is around 50c (3 hours) to 53c (1 hour) - which is around 120f.  Not really very hot.

post #40 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by nflanagin View Post

If you read the threads Jacques posted, the hotbox temperature is around 50c (3 hours) to 53c (1 hour) - which is around 120f.  Not really very hot.

That might not be as bad. The video you shared he was taking 150 f for eight hours. He even mentioned delaminating a ski.
post #41 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 

I'm also concerned about the impact of high heat on bindings, concern that the grease will melt and run out... Or if you remove the bindings over and over does it compromise the integrity of the screw holes... unless you use quiver killers?


Dart, we are taking about 150 degrees F.  The grease does not drop!   I never remove bindings.  I do check the screws for torque as one should from time to to time anyway.

Again, I have had no issues. 

 

Heating the entire ski slowly and cooling slowly is less stress to the ski as it is not just heated on one side.  The skis never change camber as they do with an iron.

post #42 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by nflanagin View Post
 

If you read the threads Jacques posted, the hotbox temperature is around 50c (3 hours) to 53c (1 hour) - which is around 120f.  Not really very hot.


120 is fine for super soft base prep. waxes.  I do heat to 150 F on a regular basis.  No issues. 

post #43 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nflanagin View Post

If you read the threads Jacques posted, the hotbox temperature is around 50c (3 hours) to 53c (1 hour) - which is around 120f.  Not really very hot.

That might not be as bad. The video you shared he was taking 150 f for eight hours. He even mentioned delaminating a ski.


Oh yes, you listen good!  I like that!  I did produce a bubble in a base at the tip of one ski (junk ski) as I was testing my box.  It was because I had the tip very close to the heat source. 

The box is fine tuned now, and again, never had any issues.

post #44 of 44

Interesting that these defects were from three manufacturers, Volkl (same owner as K2), Rossi (also owns Dynastar), and Blizzard (owned by Tecnica/Nordica).  Could they be farming production of these skis out to the same contracting factory?

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