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Help to eliminate unwanted counter rotation

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

Hi,

 

I've been skiing for the past few years but have recently ramped up my time on the slopes and would like to try and correct some error in my technique.

 

Unfortunately, I can't currently afford to pay for lessons so hope that assistance on here / taking videos and pics etc may be able to help with some issues. I've never taken lessons (apart from very early beginner) so have picked up most of my technique from googling / watching other people. (Too many skiers from the 70's it seems..)

 

One annoying aspect of my skiing is unnecessary counter rotation. I believe I like the look and effectiveness of this technique for skiing steep terrain and bumps however I find that I can't shift it when carving on easy groomers when I think it looks inappropriate and I may not be using my skis effectively. I imagine this technique has become habitual, stemming from phrases such as ''shoulders down the fall line'' to which I thought should be in all skiing circumstances and now I know it definitely isn't.. I have tried to correct this on groomers by thinking 'follow my skis with shoulders'.. This kind of works mid through a turn but I still think Im too countered at turn initiation. In addition, I'm unsure if I need to think of following my hips square to skis as well as shoulders as they seem fairly countered as well.

 

The following link shows a video of my skiing on a steepish red groomer

 

https://youtu.be/5ejFVzHNjAg

 

My skis are Volk mantras (100mm under foot with 24m ish radius)... 

 

In addition I've posted some stills that I took on a 0.5 second time lapse..

 

Could anyone kindly offer any advice or insight into what I may need to work on with my skiing? Counter rotation or in general.

 

Any drills to help would be much appreciated!

 

My confidence and balance on skis is quite high so I'm hoping with some advice in the right direction I'll be able to iron out some issues. 

 

Any help / advice and drills would be hugely appreciated! Any positives seen to keep doing would also be great to hear!

 

Quick final thought: Does having a larger turn radius found on all mountain skis make it harder to carve steep terrain? It seems nigh on impossible to effectively carve a steeper groomer if one turn takes you 24m, unless you're at blistering pace.. Or can certain techniques shorten this radius without sliding...? Or ultimately when you buy all mountain skis do you have to accept loss of carving ability on piste?

 

Thanks!

 

Dean

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #2 of 16

Look at :18 in your video.  Why the dip before turning?  Don't.  I think your pole plant is at fault.  Don't reach forward, don't swing your arm or shoulder.  Hold your hands out at the natural balancing position, to the sides & front, inside higher & more forward than the outside.  Just a twitch of the wrist to touch your pole tip on the snow is just right.  The right place to tap your pole tip on the snow is about straight down the fall line from your outside heel.

 

Still #3.  Looks pretty good.  Bend the inside knee more to lighten that ski and put more load on the outside ski.  Carry the inside hand a bit higher; don't drag the pole unless the fog is so thick you need a feeler.

Still #4.  Hands at your sides are useful only when skiing between tight trees.  Keep them out for balance.

Still #6.  Note your lower legs in an A-frame here and elsewhere.  Check a good boot shop for alignment.  Canting your boot soles to get your legs aligned will help carving and all skiing.

 

Of course wide, big radius all mountain skis don't carve tight turns well.  That's not what they're made for.  To carve tight on hard stuff, you need a tighter radius and proper torsional stiffness and damping.  A narrower waist is a big help getting the skis up on edge.  The wide all mountain skis are the wrong tool for the job.

 

Don't square up to the skis.  Counter from the hips upward all through the turn and hold it until the last moment as the next turn starts.  Counter does two things--it uses up rotation in the hip sockets (you do not want rotary steering when carving, the skis' sidecut does it for you), and it makes angulation easier--we bend better partly-frontwards than bend sideways.  Hold the inside foot back, back hard, while you counter above it.

post #3 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy View Post

 

Still #4.  Hands at your sides are useful only when skiing between tight trees.  Keep them out for balance.

 

The hands at your sides technique is also useful if you had early checkout with a full day ticket and no rental car to put your suitcases in. 

post #4 of 16

Balance on the BTE side of the outside foot and tip the inside foot to LTE, hard. That will often take care of both the hip dump and the A-frame.

post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 


Thanks for your comments.. Much appreciated. I know i definitely need to silent my arms and keep them out more, so I'll continue to work on that.

 

As for the A-frame, its something I've been trying to shift for a while and think its more to do with a pelvic misalignment and not enough inside leg LTE tipping. My boots / knees are fairly well aligned I believe. Frustratingly, my right side pelvis is fused out of position making my right foot point towards 2 o'clock when standing neutral on the ground.. Im not 100% but I think this has some relation to me struggling to tip the left inside knee / ankle as maybe the right is already pointing that way so finds it easier (if that makes sense..)

 

Jamt, I think thats exactly what Ive been trying to work on to help the A frame and when i engage the LTE it definitely helps. Could you suggest how much pressure you put on the LTE? Or any drill that help tip the inside knee / LTE? For some reason, when turning left the left foot knee / LTE doesn't want to move over. Maybe a drill where I push it with my hand? Finally, could you kindly explain further what you mean by hip dump? What picture shows this and how can I stop this?

 

Cheers!

post #6 of 16

 

 

Not exactly sure how to embed that, but it's called the Schlopy Drill and you can find it on YouTube.  The second one is the hands on knees drill which encourages parallel shins and should help with eliminating A-framing.

 

Hip dump means you're dropping your outside hip back, (also called "Park and Ride") instead of driving your inside hip forward at transition.  Hip dumping can be corrected in part by using inside leg extension (ILE), by gently or aggressively (depending on how you want to ski) applying pressure to your inside leg to extend it when you want to transition.  As you begin to relax your outside leg, drive your new inside hip forward.  I'm sure someone can do a way better job of explaining that than me.   

post #7 of 16

I'm always scared of using the words "inside leg" and "push forward" in a sentence quite close to each other...

post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 

Awesome, thanks for those drills. I assume the schlopy drill helps with the hip dump? Sorry to ask again.. but could you clarify which image shows an example of the hip dump? Just so i can better understand what not to do (or what to do with driving new inside hip forward by the sounds of things). Ive been trying to initiate turns by rolling my old outside knee to new inside knee slightly first so the new outside ski follows. So should I also be moving the same side of the hip over and forward at the same time? Is that one way of looking at it? Also, is this the same advice that follows the same logic of (stick your D*ck out, and other such prompts?) or are we talking in a more lateral plane? Its frustratingly difficult to explain and understand techniques in work with the 3 dimensional aspect....

 

The parallel shins seem self explanatory though and something that the hands on knees drill will help with!

 

Thanks again!

post #9 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanJohnBennett View Post
 

 

 

 

Jamt, I think thats exactly what Ive been trying to work on to help the A frame and when i engage the LTE it definitely helps. Could you suggest how much pressure you put on the LTE? Or any drill that help tip the inside knee / LTE? For some reason, when turning left the left foot knee / LTE doesn't want to move over. Maybe a drill where I push it with my hand? Finally, could you kindly explain further what you mean by hip dump? What picture shows this and how can I stop this?

 

Cheers!

Sorry, I did not mean to put pressure on the LTE, just tipping the foot inside the boot. Keep the foot light and pulled back.

 

Hip dump is when you move your behind (butt) into the turn more than the upper body. It gives you counter without added edge angle, which is not functional. (biomechanically you are rotating around the foot joints instead of the hip joint)


Edited by Jamt - 3/1/16 at 12:59pm
post #10 of 16

You are making turns by throwing your weight from one side to the other. That is not the way to make turns, my friend. You hardly get your skis on edge and your are smearing your way through the turns. Unfortunately, I doubt whether you will be able so learn to properly go through transition, go on the edges, balance on the outside ski, etc on 100mm powder skis. You write that you do not have money for lessons. My suggestion is to put some money aside and take some anyhow. You need them because you haven't taught yourself the right technique and you need guidance to unlearn some of the things that have sneaked into your skiing. Lessons will save you time and thus money in the long run.

post #11 of 16
Hard to tell much from that video. In the stills though.....your weight is sometimes forward, sometimes back, your hands and arms and shoulders and head are all over the place. One basic drill to steady the upper body and get the feeling of your arms out there not moving around.......do a run holding your poles at arms length crossways (parallel to the ground). Another..........with arms extended forward, hold your poles vertically and in the middle, sight between them at something downhill and keep it centered while making turns.

Your turns.....you're sliding the tails around but not finishing them. Part of it's your weight being back. Keep your weight forward, not just shins but shoulders/chest also. At the end of the turn, transfering weight onto the uphill ski it becomes the new downhill ski. A drill that worked for me was to collapse that downhill knee, just let it flop over.......the hips will follow and so will the uphill ski.......at the same time roll that uphill ankle hard to get the uphill ski onto edge. The arc will start much sooner and the ski sidecut will take you around. A ski that wide will hold a nice edge if you can get it there. This stuff would be easier to learn on a narrower ski.

The Schlopy drill is a good one. But that and a few different knee pressing drills at this stage won't do much for you.
post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
Wow, fairly brutal realisation there.. I guess you set yourself up for it on these things though!

I think I'll focus on ILE transition and quieting the upper body etc and there are some good drills here to work on for those so I thank you.

Unfortunately, as stated, at this moment in time I have much skiing opportunity available to me but currently can't afford lessons.. To suggest 'just put some money aside' doesn't really help as I am just aiming to head in the right direction with some drills / techniques to work on rather than do nothing at all. To say I won't be able to learn these things such as 'balance on the outside ski' and 'go on edges' on my skis seems rather extreme. I can comfortably ski most piste terrain with the inside leg off the ground and can ski easy runs on one ski.. (Surely this goes in some positive light of balancing skills etc that have been learned) I've been recently trying to ski slightly more two footed on piste as to help with off piste which may be coming across in what I've posted. I was originally obsessed with dominating my outside ski which meant I bailed constantly off piste. Trying to ski more even weighted on piste has helped me learn and I think I'll easily transition back to more of a fully weighted outside ski during a turn. I have found that learning to ski more two footed has also helped with ice, moguls and much steeper terrain so I'm pleased I started thinking about the inside ski more.

In hindsight, I probably should not have posted the stills as at the time I was skiing far too out of control and aggressive and this clearly comes across.. The video on the other hand didn't feel out of crontrol so is a better example of issues and the crux seems to be to work on transition.

Anywho, I'll remain positive and attempt to finish the season working on turn initiation / quieting body etc with some of the informative advice posted.

Cheers
post #13 of 16
Are you being honest with yourself about skiing around on 1 ski? Because it looks like your in the backseat. The biggest hurdle in self improvement is the ego. It is a long process of drills and practice to become an advanced/expert skier. It doesn't come easy.
post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 
? This seems like a strange thing to say. Firstly, whilst in the pics I may be in the back seat that does not mean that I'm always in the back seat.... As I mentioned, I wasn't skiing well at all in my pics. Why did I post them? I probably shouldn't have..

I'm not sure what you mean by honest with yourself? I have not stated anything more than I can balance during a turn on just the outside ski with the inside off the ground and on a gentle easy slope I can ski with one ski (not incredibly well on the little toe edge but I'm getting better) I understand where you're coming from but I'm under no illusion that I'm a fantastic skier and something as black and white and visually evident as quite literally skiing on one ski or having one ski off the ground isn't something you can make up in your head you're doing? So in this regard yes, I'm being honest with myself.. If I was doing it with two feet on the ground claiming to be able to ski on one ski then no, this would be lying..

Sorry to be bitchy, I'm more than happy to receive critisism and I greatly appreciate the advice I've been given. I never once stated however that I thought I was good or portrayed an enlarged ego. Your comment however is incredibly unhelpful and I'm unsure as to what help you think this is providing..
post #15 of 16
I can comfortably ski most piste terrain with the inside leg off the ground and can ski easy runs on one ski. There it is. Your body angles are all wrong to be able to do this. Start with the basics to build a foundation.
post #16 of 16

"I can comfortably ski most piste terrain with the inside leg off the ground and can ski easy runs on one ski". I find this statement questionable based on your video. Do some drills and post videos of you executing them. Some suggestions:

 

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