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Another video for MA

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I think I could do a little better than in this video when I'm "in the zone", but this will have to do. Here's my attempt at some short turns, and surviving bumps with bullet proof back and trough (felt like my newly sharpened edge had no grip).



Looking at the video I'm still suffering from the same problems as last year, namely hands are too wild and need to be brought under control in short turns, not enough back peddling motion in bumps, and need to absorb more with legs instead of hip.

Feel free to pick apart my skiing, I have no delusions of grandeur. biggrin.gif

Thanks in advance.
post #2 of 20

Just a quick question and clarification on the bumps..

 

What was the intention of the bump run? Zipper line as fast as you can? or smoother rounder turns? you do mention absorbing.

 

RE your short turns, What skis are you on? (radius and model)

 

Lots of good stuff going on and a few hiccups as well. Intensity and max edge angles seems to be happening close to the fall line but then being hung onto well into the lower /exit of the turn. Reasonable separation of the upper and lower body. shoulders are relatively level and reasonable counter/anticipation at the end of your turns. Interesting that you are in Canada and yet you don't have quite as much of that "compact Canadian CSIA" look to your short turns.

 

I think the hands are more a symptom of other things going on under your feet. Almost like you are trying the make the hands fix some timing/edge release issues. I'd like to see more focus on tipping the inside ski and steering (not just pushing) both skis to an earlier edge. I'd also like to see you take those same size turns and really slow them down. Steered just a touch more throughout the whole turn without a push. A little more patience at the top of the turn allowing your COM to come over the skis and down the hill to affect a better more precise simultaneous edge release/change, and better edge engagement as you balance on the new outside ski.

post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
Intention of bump run is probably closer to the former than latter, but at a decent speed, not as fast as I can. Skis are Head TT80 in 176, 14.4m sidecut. I don't have any formal experience with CSIA so that's probably why. This season I'm actually working on something similar to what you mentioned, trying to get the feeling of pop at end of turn and COM passing over ski during transition. I could do better when I'm carving, but here it's hit and miss (miss this time).

Oh and I know I could use shorter poles in bumps, but they are about as short as I'm willing to go on flats without unable to pole skate with them.
Edited by jzmtl - 2/29/16 at 12:34pm
post #4 of 20

Functionally and mechanically you have  a lot of good stuff here. MY opinion is largely in your visualization of your TURN SHAPES. 

 

I think you are trying to force the dyamics of your turns rather than allow them to develop. The completion of your turns need more shape. That will direct your skis more across the slope and allow them to enter the turn in more of a arc. The arc loads the spring which provides the pop as the ski unloads (and requiring mild  absorption/retraction) rather than a pushing, which is happening a bit artificially. It might be too much to ask on a slope that shallow, so perhaps longer radius turns are more suited to that terrain? 

 

I agree with dchan that your hands are a symptom of something going on underneath, which I will refer back to my comment about turn shape.  All are interconnected.  And no, you don't need shorter poles. 

post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thanks, I've also come to realize that my COM is traveling down the slope in too straight of a line, and that it should have more deflection to left and right (sorta like corridor run).

Good to hear the poles are right, so I can finally settle on the length. biggrin.gif
post #6 of 20
Those skis are carving machines. For what it's worth,relax and go for the ride don't force it. Work on more vertical separation to change the turn shape.
post #7 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post

Thanks, I've also come to realize that my COM is traveling down the slope in too straight of a line, and that it should have more deflection to left and right (sorta like corridor run).

Good to hear the poles are right, so I can finally settle on the length. biggrin.gif

I don't think that's the issue.  As I pointed to turn shape, your skis and legs aren't extending quite enough and shaping the turn.Wider/longer turn shape will of course take your body more laterally across the slope.  I wouldn't focus on the upper body so much in that context. I would focus on where the skis are going and let the CoM do what it has to. Sure, a little trial, error and experience are necessary, but you have the skills to adapt quickly if not immediately. 

post #8 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post

I think I could do a little better than in this video when I'm "in the zone", but this will have to do. Here's my attempt at some short turns, and surviving bumps with bullet proof back and trough (felt like my newly sharpened edge had no grip).



Looking at the video I'm still suffering from the same problems as last year, namely hands are too wild and need to be brought under control in short turns, not enough back peddling motion in bumps, and need to absorb more with legs instead of hip.

Feel free to pick apart my skiing, I have no delusions of grandeur. biggrin.gif

Thanks in advance.

For what its worth, I think the issues in both are the same. 

I would say that you need to create a better platform against your outside ski sooner and through a different move than how you are currently. The move in the short turns is a slight press or push and comes fall line to completion, so pressure builds fast, the turn shape is Z shaped and skidded. In bumps the move is lateral from the tip of the ski pushing the tail sideways to control speed, and then you have to use hip to try and keep it turning. 

Feel free to PM for more details. 

post #9 of 20

Sounds like we are all pretty much in agreement, just different ways of expressing it.

 

Need to be more patient at the top of the turn, Guide the skis onto an earlier edge, balance (not press) on that outside ski, let it build a platform and continue to shape the turn.. Then manage the pressure as you get the energy back from the ski.

 

Sounds like we all also agree that the hands are more a symptom of what's going on under the feet. Not the cause.

post #10 of 20

It is strong athletic skiing. now you just need to refine it.

post #11 of 20
Honestly, if I was on that carving pitch daily, I'm not sure if I would ski it differently. You gotta make the most on 209 vertical. Haha. Thankfully, I have more to work with. If you were not worried about maximising the amount of turns vs. shape and quality, I think you would catch-on quickly. Lots of good stuff to work with.

For now, most everything said above is helpful. To put things in simpler terms, perhaps - seperate your pelvis from your femur whether on edge or while pivoting. The rotation will feel different, maybe, passive while on edge and active while pivoting. Either way, the femur rotates under a stable PELVIS. Your hands will adapt nicely.
post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

Those skis are carving machines. For what it's worth,relax and go for the ride don't force it. Work on more vertical separation to change the turn shape.

That they are, I keep meaning to get a video of my carving runs to see if I can figure out why my inside skis are smearing instead of RR at apex, but never got a chance to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rollo87 View Post

For what its worth, I think the issues in both are the same. 


I would say that you need to create a better platform against your outside ski sooner and through a different move than how you are currently. The move in the short turns is a slight press or push and comes fall line to completion, so pressure builds fast, the turn shape is Z shaped and skidded. In bumps the move is lateral from the tip of the ski pushing the tail sideways to control speed, and then you have to use hip to try and keep it turning. 


Feel free to PM for more details. 

Will do, thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by vindibona1 View Post

I don't think that's the issue. As I pointed to turn shape, your skis and legs aren't extending quite enough and shaping the turn.Wider/longer turn shape will of course take your body more laterally across the slope. I wouldn't focus on the upper body so much in that context. I would focus on where the skis are going and let the CoM do what it has to. Sure, a little trial, error and experience are necessary, but you have the skills to adapt quickly if not immediately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post

Sounds like we are all pretty much in agreement, just different ways of expressing it.

Need to be more patient at the top of the turn, Guide the skis onto an earlier edge, balance (not press) on that outside ski, let it build a platform and continue to shape the turn.. Then manage the pressure as you get the energy back from the ski.

Sounds like we all also agree that the hands are more a symptom of what's going on under the feet. Not the cause.

Yes that's what I meant. I realized that I was in too much of a hurry to get the skis to turn around. So more patience, let the skis do their thing and naturally they will carry COM more across the hill. Yesterday we had some new snow and I think I'm getting better at it, the better condition sure helped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tip Ripply View Post

Honestly, if I was on that carving pitch daily, I'm not sure if I would ski it differently. You gotta make the most on 209 vertical. Haha. Thankfully, I have more to work with. If you were not worried about maximising the amount of turns vs. shape and quality, I think you would catch-on quickly. Lots of good stuff to work with.

For now, most everything said above is helpful. To put things in simpler terms, perhaps - seperate your pelvis from your femur whether on edge or while pivoting. The rotation will feel different, maybe, passive while on edge and active while pivoting. Either way, the femur rotates under a stable PELVIS. Your hands will adapt nicely.

Hehe, unfortunately that's the only place close enough for weekday evening runs, and during weekend people are more interested in skiing than taking videos, a good/willing videographer is so hard to find.
post #13 of 20
Well, then rail five turns down that sumbitch. Ten-too-many. wink.gif
post #14 of 20

Now that you have got thorough upper/lower body separation nailed down in regards to fashion and color coordination, next on the list is rotary, angular and vertical. :)

post #15 of 20
Its not that I think seperation happens only the rotary relm, but if i put it in an any other realm i fail in an exam. What I'm saying is seperation is rotary.
post #16 of 20
@jzmtl the reason your not carving your inside ski is because your not balanced over it. Keep moving forward. Once you start carving on that inside edge you will feel that clean slicing sensation. Its a beautiful thing.
post #17 of 20

Yes, Tip, I agree that rotary is what the lone word "separation" primarily refers to and that when referencing vertical separation, you have to spell both words out. It is even much less popular to include angulation in that realm, yet for me and the way I like to think, including all three possibly perceived types represents the "full package of separation" and promoting the idea that we are working with a multi-axis, multi-orbital swivel capable pelvis. You know, more simply put, same thing as any barstool after 2:00 am. Anyway, I like to allow myself to stray off the reservation a bit conceptually as I flex my penchant for adaptitude. :)

post #18 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post

Now that you have got thorough upper/lower body separation nailed down in regards to fashion and color coordination, next on the list is rotary, angular and vertical. smile.gif

My color coordination has one rule, whichever is 50% off. biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

@jzmtl the reason your not carving your inside ski is because your not balanced over it. Keep moving forward. Once you start carving on that inside edge you will feel that clean slicing sensation. Its a beautiful thing.

Yeah I have a few theories, it only happens sometimes and more often on my left turn than right. Hopefully I can get a video this Sunday and nail it down.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post

Now that you have got thorough upper/lower body separation nailed down in regards to fashion and color coordination, next on the list is rotary, angular and vertical. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post

Yes, Tip, I agree that rotary is what the lone word "separation" primarily refers to and that when referencing vertical separation, you have to spell both words out. It is even much less popular to include angulation in that realm, yet for me and the way I like to think, including all three possibly perceived types represents the "full package of separation" and promoting the idea that we are working with a multi-axis, multi-orbital swivel capable pelvis. You know, more simply put, same thing as any barstool after 2:00 am. Anyway, I like to allow myself to stray off the reservation a bit conceptually as I flex my penchant for adaptitude. smile.gif
Don't flex your penchant in the aptitude too 'agressively". But, ya man, good post.

Edit: multiple planes blow my mind, man wink.gif
post #20 of 20
Thread Starter 
Some updates. I've tried some of the things i this thread, and let my COM bounce across the hill. On good snow I can actually get quite a bit of rebound, which was previously only possible during carved turns, not on steered turns, so I'm happy with that. But I still haven't figured out more icy conditions/patches, when my tails tend to wash out a little. I think my current practice of puling ski back/close ankle joint at transition works great while steering on good snow and carving, it puts me too far forward for icy surface. Will have to spend more time to figure out where to load the ski, but it'll have to wait till next winter since I'm suffering from a high fever right now and will miss end of season.
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