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And the journey towards L3 continues!

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
L3 exams at Squaw, Tues and Wed. 2/23-2/24. Some areas were hero snow, some were sheets of ice. We had crusty snow, avy debris, great grooming, spring corn slush bumps.. We skied hard.. A strong group of 5 candidates.

I'll post more after I decompress,. The outcome for me. A strong pass. Waiting for reports from my fellow candidates but I am pretty sure there was one other pass. So thats 2 out of 5 in this round.

On to the teach..

DC
post #2 of 40

Congratulations and good luck for the teaching component

post #3 of 40

Great job dchan! Thumbs Up

post #4 of 40
Congratulations. I'm not surprised after seeing you ski at the Gathering.
post #5 of 40

Yeah! It's been a long road. It's great to hear of a strong pass. Well done.

post #6 of 40
Big icon14.gif, David.
post #7 of 40

Congratulations! That's very exciting. 

post #8 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post

L3 exams at Squaw, Tues and Wed. 2/23-2/24. Some areas were hero snow, some were sheets of ice. We had crusty snow, avy debris, great grooming, spring corn slush bumps.. We skied hard.. A strong group of 5 candidates.

I'll post more after I decompress,. The outcome for me. A strong pass. Waiting for reports from my fellow candidates but I am pretty sure there was one other pass. So thats 2 out of 5 in this round.

On to the teach..

DC


Whoo-Hoo!  Congrats.  Looking forward to reading more when you've got the time to tell all.

post #9 of 40

Congrats!!!!  It's got to be a big relief to be done with that. I'm sure you'll sleep well once the adrenaline gets drained from your system. 

post #10 of 40
Thread Starter 

one night decompression follow up. How the event went.

 

Reminder for those of you that have not kept up with all the changes in terminology.

Examiners are now using what is supposed to be the unified wording listed as the 5 "FUNdamentals"

 

1. Control the Relationship of the Center of Mass to the base of support to direct pressure along the length of the skis.  (fore aft)

2. Control pressure from ski to ski and direct pressure toward the outside ski. (foot to foot, dominant outside ski)

3. Control edge angles through a combination of inclination and angulation.

4. Control the skis rotation (turning, pivoting, steering) with leg rotation, separate from the upper body. (ski in and out of counter appropriate for the turn size and shape)

5. Regulate the magnitude of pressure created through ski/snow Interaction.

 

 

Day one. We arrive at Dave's Deli to meet our examiner and a shadow. We are informed that the "shadow" is there to observe and does not have any bearing on the exam outcome.

 

Quick introductions, get our tickets, quick probable outline of how the days will go. First day will be tasks/demos and free skiing components. We will get warm-up runs for each task and will get feedback on our runs with a chance to do them a second time with more feed back on how we need to improve.

 

The tasks for both days will be.

 

Pivot side slips

Hop turns

One Leg skiing

Retraction/extension turns

 

There is only one "demo"

 

Basic parallel turn. A VERY Precise demo is required for a L3.

 

Our mountain skiing will include,

 

Dynamic Medium Radius

Dynamic Short Radius

Bumps,

Steeps and off piste.

 

There is an option for Park/pipe, Race and steeps. listed as situational skiing.

 

 

Based on conditions presented during the event we will try to do all the tasks and skiing in appropriate locations.

 

So we head up the Funitel and then down to Gold coast to get a couple of warm up runs.

 

After two warm up runs (wow nice grooming)  we start to focus on the first task. We will go up Siberia and do pivots in the "fun chutes"

Practice on the runout towards Fun chutes. quick feedback (very individual. Thank You  Examiner) and we proceed to do a set in fun chutes.

That was tough.. Icy, firm, steep with a strange fall line. Little more feed back and do them again..

 

Back to Gold coast for some retraction turns.

Practice, feedback and then the same.

 

We stay on Gold coast for our one leg skiing (flatter section). Same process.

 

Then we start to head down the mountain. Lunch at 11:45.

 

After lunch, we take a few steeps/bump runs to get the blood flowing. KT22 to get up the mountain, and ski to head wall. Take a run there and then using mountain run, we start working on our "demo" which is the basic parallel. These need to be very precise. Lots of feedback during the rounds of these. The examiner is looking for very specific things.. Same process. practice, graded with feedback and done again.

we then meet up with El Furtney and take a few more runs on Headwall. Making laps in the chutes and on hogs back. Here we find some avy debris, wind buff, chalky punchy snow, sheets of ice, hard bumps, soft bumps and some hero winter pack pow!. Same type of process practice, make a run, feedback/direction and make another run. We end this part of the day in Sun bowl for a run of mushy bumps sun baked bumps.

 

After our first set, our examiner asks me and one of the others to do Medium Radius through the the bumps. Wheee. slushy face shots!

 

Then down to far east for hop turns, Dynamic Mediums and Dynamic Shorts.. Same process for practice/warmup, feed back, and 2 sets to show our stuff.

 

FYI the day got warmer and warmer. By end of day one of the guys was joking about going topless if it got any warmer.

 

Wrap up and what to expect for tomorrow.

post #11 of 40
Thread Starter 

Day 2.

 

We arrived expecting warmer weather. It turns out the still temps were warmer but we had a cold wind to contend with. BRRR on the top of Headwall.

 

The day went pretty much like the first without all the feedback. Lots of bad kid jokes to try to take the edge off. I spent every bit of "free skiing" looking for junk/crud/bumps to keep me from thinking about it being an exam. Taking one of my Mentor's bit of advice.. "Turn your f****en brain off and ski"

 

Couple of warm ups.. and right into tasks. This day we got quick reminders of what we did well and what our "focus" points were. These reminders were very "focused" on each candidate. The examiner did a great job of being specific on what needed work for each candidate. Some real good questions were asked and there was some "help" with understanding.

 

Day 2 order of items went..

 

Pivot side slips on hero groomed slope. Tomlinsons First on Shirley Lake.

Same thing as first day but with minimal feedback. 2 stretches of slips.

Then Hop turns. Same location. Same process

Next One legged skiing on I think it was Ramp Run? (the run right next to the "toilet bowl")

Open parallel turn Demos on the mountain run back towards lunch..

 

Afternoon a few runs on headwall. into various aspects and chutes. Hogs back etc.. This time we did some "situational" runs where we had blind rollovers into variable terrain. The examiner and shadow stood where the rollover was and we were instructed to ski to them, and continue past them as the terrain rolled over. NO STOP.. They wanted to see how we handled a the blind entry regarding speed and tactics.

 

Another run into Sun bowl off the back of headwall to have some more fun in the slush bumps.

 

Retraction turns on mountain run heading back to Far East. These were set up as very specific types of retraction turns (size of turn) The examiner looked at each persons skis and the task was set up as do them in a turn size that required skills other than riding the side cut. Most of the group were on short radius turning skis so they all had to do their retraction turns as medium/long.. I was on a 14.3m ski so I had to do mine as shorts. Then the second set the examiner asked me to do them as reaching shorts..

 

Then 3 runs on Far east. Dynamic Mediums, Dynamic Shorts, and then a combination of both.. 5 mediums, 5 shorts, 5 mediums, 5 shorts if we had room..

 

Off the mountain at 2:35. decompress, change and wait for results.

 

Some of my feedback next and impressions during the two days

post #12 of 40

Congratulations on a great performance in what sounds like some challenging conditions! 

post #13 of 40

Congratulations.  Thanks for the details.

post #14 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
 

one night decompression follow up. How the event went

.... using mountain run, we start working on our "demo" which is the basic parallel. These need to be very precise. Lots of feedback during the rounds of these. The examiner is looking for very specific things..

 

(mod note, cleaned up the long quote)

 

If you have time, would you mind describing the "very specific things" your examiner wanted to see in those basic parallel turns?

post #15 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

 

If you have time, would you mind describing the "very specific things" your examiner wanted to see in those basic parallel turns?

I was going to go into specifics on all my feed back but since you asked, and I have a few minutes right now.

 

First.. What is a basic parallel turn?

 

Generally, it's a steered, low energy round shaped parallel turn. Low edge angles, not too fast. Speed managed by turn shape, not braking. Real good controlled turn mechanics.

 

It's your "Money turn" as the many of the examiners like to refer to it as.

 

There should be a simultaneous edge change (flattening) at initiation, created by some extension of the ankles/legs causing a flattening of the skis. A slight amount of counter in the upper body, along with the skis moving into the fall line should be what start the turn. Then there will be a guiding of both skis into the turn. Again low edge angles but as you enter the shaping part of the turn, there will be controlled rotary from below the hips down (femurs turning in the hip sockets) steering the skis through the turn as well as onto a very slight edge. As the turn develops a small amount of edge (angulation if you will) will develop as the legs continue to turn under the stable upper body. Some flexion should happen as the turn exits the shaping part to manage pressure and into the finish of the turn creating gentle edging to control/manage pressure under both skis. This should also include skiing into a little bit of counter to set your self up for the beginning of the next turn. An effective pole swing and touch, along with the extension at the initiation of the next turn should move the COM over the skis, to the new inside, creating the simultaneous edge release and flattening,. AND REPEAT

 

All these elements needed to be precisely blended and controlled to create a seamless round shaped turn. The examiner was actually looking at some of the tracks to see if there were hints of different edge angles at various points in the turn.

 

 

So specific feedback for me,

On my first run (warmup practice),.

I was just a little too square at the finish of the turns causing me to have to provide a little bit of turning power from my hip/torso, instead of the counter and hill starting the turn process.

My second run (first "scored" run) no feedback. Had to ask was that better? Response "yes"

Third run. again no feed back.

Second day,

Warm up. Reminder to ski into counter.

First "scored" those were good but you did those a bit "tall" show me more flexion, Especially since the pitch is steeper but don't let it get into the dynamic range. (Huh?)

Second "scored" run, no feedback.

 

I can only presume I "Nailed it"

 

For some of the others,

 

Too much edge.

Not enough counter or too much "artificial created' counter instead of skiing in and out of counter.

too much dependence on the ski design/shape. not enough steering.

Too much "pop" up or not progressive enough.

Extension in the up down plane instead of the down the hill plane.

Not enough extension or extension in the down the hill direction so that the COM moving across the skis was not flattening the skis or creating a sequential movement instead of a simultaneous edge change.

Too much rotary causing a tail wash instead of a tip to tail path of the ski.

 

I didn't (or tried not to) listen or really pay attention to other's feed back other than if that's what I was seeing as well. Unless they asked me for hints I was not going to say anything.. I'm sure they were all stressed enough already.

 

We did them in several types of snow. Mostly flat green areas but in nice groomed snow, little bit mushy snow. different pitches. One round had several mounds of soft mushy snow in the path.

 

DC

post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
I was going to go into specifics on all my feed back but since you asked, and I have a few minutes right now.

 

First.. What is a basic parallel turn?

 

Generally, it's a steered, low energy round shaped parallel turn. Low edge angles, not too fast. Speed managed by turn shape, not braking. Real good controlled turn mechanics.

 

It's your "Money turn" as the many of the examiners like to refer to it as.

 

There should be a simultaneous edge change (flattening) at initiation, created by some extension of the ankles/legs causing a flattening of the skis. A slight amount of counter in the upper body, along with the skis moving into the fall line should be what start the turn. Then there will be a guiding of both skis into the turn. Again low edge angles but as you enter the shaping part of the turn, there will be controlled rotary from below the hips down (femurs turning in the hip sockets) steering the skis through the turn as well as onto a very slight edge. As the turn develops a small amount of edge (angulation if you will) will develop as the legs continue to turn under the stable upper body. Some flexion should happen as the turn exits the shaping part to manage pressure and into the finish of the turn creating gentle edging to control/manage pressure under both skis. This should also include skiing into a little bit of counter to set your self up for the beginning of the next turn. An effective pole swing and touch, along with the extension at the initiation of the next turn should move the COM over the skis, to the new inside, creating the simultaneous edge release and flattening,. AND REPEAT

 

All these elements needed to be precisely blended and controlled to create a seamless round shaped turn. The examiner was actually looking at some of the tracks to see if there were hints of different edge angles at various points in the turn.

 

 

So specific feedback for me,

On my first run (warmup practice),.

I was just a little too square at the finish of the turns causing me to have to provide a little bit of turning power from my hip/torso, instead of the counter and hill starting the turn process.

My second run (first "scored" run) no feedback. Had to ask was that better? Response "yes"

Third run. again no feed back.

Second day,

Warm up. Reminder to ski into counter.

First "scored" those were good but you did those a bit "tall" show me more flexion, Especially since the pitch is steeper but don't let it get into the dynamic range. (Huh?)

Second "scored" run, no feedback.

 

I can only presume I "Nailed it"

 

For some of the others,

 

Too much edge.

Not enough counter or too much "artificial created' counter instead of skiing in and out of counter.

too much dependence on the ski design/shape. not enough steering.

Too much "pop" up or not progressive enough.

Extension in the up down plane instead of the down the hill plane.

Not enough extension or extension in the down the hill direction so that the COM moving across the skis was not flattening the skis or creating a sequential movement instead of a simultaneous edge change.

Too much rotary causing a tail wash instead of a tip to tail path of the ski.

 

I didn't (or tried not to) listen or really pay attention to other's feed back other than if that's what I was seeing as well. Unless they asked me for hints I was not going to say anything.. I'm sure they were all stressed enough already.

 

We did them in several types of snow. Mostly flat green areas but in nice groomed snow, little bit mushy snow. different pitches. One round had several mounds of soft mushy snow in the path.

 

DC


Sounds like you had a very thorough and helpful examiner.

Did your examiner care how "complete" your basic parallel turns were?  Was there a "proper" amount of turn completion, with some over-completing their turns and some under-completing them?

Did your examiner point out when to start releasing (as in, right after fall line, or a bit later)?

post #17 of 40
Congratulations, that's quite an achievement!

Your basic parallel sounds a lot like CSIA's intermediate parallel (we don't have basic I think), anyone with CSIA cert can confirm?
post #18 of 40
Thread Starter 
How complete or incomplete I'm sure would have come up (and it may have but I missed it) if the candidates were way out of line. I seem to remember we all took the same path of the examiner or the shadow's path.

So hard to tell say.

I do know in many of the other "tasks" some of us were asked to show more shape, take the COM across the hill more, or stay in the fall line more. I think we all got the start or stop of the basic parallel about right.
post #19 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post

Congratulations, that's quite an achievement!

Your basic parallel sounds a lot like CSIA's intermediate parallel (we don't have basic I think), anyone with CSIA cert can confirm?

 

Sounds like. Here are some examples of individuals attempting (and some of them failing) the intermediate parallel on a level 3 exam (a bare minimum pass is a 6, and if you fail this turn, you cannot get the level 3, whereas in short rad and advanced parallel, you can get below 6 as long as your overall average is above 6): 

 

post #20 of 40
Thread Starter 

Nope. those would be somewhat dynamic parallel turns. The speed hides a lot of precision in the movement pattern.

 

Take those down to a speed that a new parallel skier (think novice just changing from an advanced wedge christie to parallel) and do the movement pattern with enough precision so that the turn looks flawless.

 

For those of you the remember when advanced wedge Christies were just about the hardest demo to master. Take that demo, slow it down so every flaw will show up. Then do it at that speed in an open parallel turn (steered almost flat ski). Then try doing them in different turn sizes, at the same speed on different pitches.

 

Something like this..

 

 

However they made us do them on flatter greens and slower which is actually even harder because all the flaws show up.

 

 

DC

post #21 of 40

Oh my; I see the difference in performance. So basic parallel really is basic parallel. 

 

The PSIA-3 skiing (non-teaching) exam is a 2 day affair? 

post #22 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

The PSIA-3 skiing (non-teaching) exam is a 2 day affair? 

Yes. It is in the Western division. You also have the choice in many cases to take a Prep day also making it a 3 day event.

 

The teaching module is a 3 day event.

post #23 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

Oh my; I see the difference in performance. So basic parallel really is basic parallel. 

 

And yes it's really a very precise demo. All your flaws will be revealed at this speed so it better be extremely accurate.

post #24 of 40
Thread Starter 

We do have to do as part the exam, dynamic mediums and dynamic shorts as well. The examiner will often have you do 2 different runs. One of moderated speeds to see if the movement patterns are accurate (much like the video shown of CSIA L3) and then one of high energy dynamic turns.

 

In our case this time, the examiner had us do the two combined. 5 Medium, 5 shorts, 5 mediums, 5 shorts. I'm sure this was to get us going faster and having to deal with the forces created when we switched back to the shorts. It also showed how we were able to maintain control and speed at a constant rate even though the size of the turns changed. Something hard to do accurately.

 

I never really got any feedback on these other than after I did my first round of mediums, I was asked to do the next set (shorts) as extension/flexion turns. I really hadn't thought about it but I guess I did my Mediums as Retraction turns. The second day, before we even did them, I was asked to shape the turns more and bring the mediums across the hill a bit more. and in my "retraction turns" task I was asked to make them short radius. After which I was asked to make my retraction turns "reaching shorts" 

post #25 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

Oh my; I see the difference in performance. So basic parallel really is basic parallel. 

 

And yes it's really a very precise demo. All your flaws will be revealed at this speed so it better be extremely accurate.


I think I got from your earlier comments that your group of 8 had two pass.  But I also read between the lines that your group did fine with those precise basic parallel turns.

Do you know what parts of the exam derailed most of those candidates?  Hop turns, bumps, dynamic short radius turns?  Or free-skiing?

post #26 of 40
Thread Starter 
It was a group of five not eight so pretty high pass rate and strong candidates.

I hav not yet seen any of the final feedback sheets so I don't know if the others "nailed" the basic parallel demo. I just know the only comment on my score sheet is "good job!" on the demos and tasks.

It's possibe they all were able to make the adjustments requested and show a passing demo, but I suspect some of them did not.

In our recent scoring system, while you are supposed to pass all elements, it is more about the overall performance of skiing at or above the standard 90% of the time. So a slight problem with the demo may Not be what causes you to fail. However If the same movement pattern that causes you to have trouble doing the demo task is prevalent in all your skiing and affects every task, then most likely it is a movement pattern that keeps you from passing the whole exam.
post #27 of 40

Congrats Dave!

post #28 of 40
Good job! Congratulations!
post #29 of 40
Congrats!
post #30 of 40

Way to do, David! Congratulations, and thank you for sharing the details of your experience. Thumbs Up   

 

 :beercheer: 

 

:ski

 

Best,

Bob

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