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When, where, why do you flex the boot? - Page 2

post #31 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
 

I still wonder what's the big difference between a booster strap and the original one.

 

From my earlier post.

 

So on to why a booster strap may be beneficial and better than the original "power strap" included on almost all boots now..

 

Because the original strap in MOST cases is a "fixed" length once strapped in, and has no "give" as soon as we "hit" the power strap, all we are doing is trying to flex the boot. it's either All or nothing.. As the temps change, the boot may be softer or stiffer. If the boot is way too stiff, the shock of hitting the strap can do many things. Cause some pain. Push us back (hips and COM in the back seat) not allow us to articulate our ankles, give us bad feedback or inaccurate feedback.

 

Using a booster strap (either between the shell and liner or even over the shell) will allow a more progressive build up of pressure and more accurate feedback as we articulate our ankles.

post #32 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
 

 

Yeah. I ski them when we have really, really hard snow. It makes the skis very reactive, but the margin for error goes out the window. I'd rate them as fun to experience, but impractical. 


Yup!   that is exactly the issue Heluva.  While the 160/170 is an extreme example it highlights the problem.  When the boot is too stiff you lose the ability to get good fore/aft balance on the ski to absorb as necessary.  With a too stiff boot it acts like an on/off switch (or hitting a brick wall) and it becomes difficult to be more subtle with the pressure on the ski.

 

One of the biggest issues I come across with Masters racers is trying to use too stiff a boot.  I have seen significant improvements with several of our athletes when we have cut the boot down to a more manageable flex where they can actually get properly to the front of the ski, particularly critical with a modern GS ski.

 

I bumbled along for several years in a 150 Dobie plug, with booster strap, with pretty mediocre (and in hindsight, predictable) results till I ventured into a 130 Atomic RT TI.  At first i thought I was going to be picking my nose with the tip of the ski but i soon realized it was translating through to significantly improved performance in gates and consistent podiums.   I have since also cut the boot down slightly more which, contrary to popular thinking, actually helped my slalom skiing!   But, in my continuous quest to stay ahead of the pack I piked up some 150 redster plugs at the end of last season to try.  In late spring they were just about useable but at the start of this season I quickly found that they were too one dimensional - off/on - to work well for me so they have now been cut down to circa 130 equivalent as well.  And for reference I am 5'8', 165#

 

NOTE!  i am talking about forward flex stiffness here NOT soft in lateral stiffness. As all my boots are plugs the lateral stiffness is an essential given.  And yes, the (real)  booster strap (I use the WC version) is also an essential part of the set-up.  The elasticity supports the progressive flex I like to be able to properly pressure the cuff.  My last action before countdown in the gate is a final tug on the booster, with the top clip relatively loose.

 

I suspect that many people are using a too-stiff boot with a relatively short ski to basically "point and squirt" rather than drive the ski.....:popcorn   But, whatever floats your boat. 

 

and as to the previous poster who referred to increasing pressure after the fall line .... really????  all you are doing then is applying the brakes......  :eek 

post #33 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
 

 

From my earlier post.

 

So on to why a booster strap may be beneficial and better than the original "power strap" included on almost all boots now..

 

Because the original strap in MOST cases is a "fixed" length once strapped in, and has no "give" as soon as we "hit" the power strap, all we are doing is trying to flex the boot. it's either All or nothing.. As the temps change, the boot may be softer or stiffer. If the boot is way too stiff, the shock of hitting the strap can do many things. Cause some pain. Push us back (hips and COM in the back seat) not allow us to articulate our ankles, give us bad feedback or inaccurate feedback.

 

Using a booster strap (either between the shell and liner or even over the shell) will allow a more progressive build up of pressure and more accurate feedback as we articulate our ankles.


Spot on DC!   One of the areas where as PSIA and USSA we are in complete agreement! :)

post #34 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
 

 

Yeah. I ski them when we have really, really hard snow. It makes the skis very reactive, but the margin for error goes out the window. I'd rate them as fun to experience, but impractical. 


Yup!   that is exactly the issue Heluva.  While the 160/170 is an extreme example it highlights the problem.  When the boot is too stiff you lose the ability to get good fore/aft balance on the ski to absorb as necessary.  With a too stiff boot it acts like an on/off switch (or hitting a brick wall) and it becomes difficult to be more subtle with the pressure on the ski.

 

One of the biggest issues I come across with Masters racers is trying to use too stiff a boot.  I have seen significant improvements with several of our athletes when we have cut the boot down to a more manageable flex where they can actually get properly to the front of the ski, particularly critical with a modern GS ski.

 

I bumbled along for several years in a 150 Dobie plug, with booster strap, with pretty mediocre (and in hindsight, predictable) results till I ventured into a 130 Atomic RT TI.  At first i thought I was going to be picking my nose with the tip of the ski but i soon realized it was translating through to significantly improved performance in gates and consistent podiums.   I have since also cut the boot down slightly more which, contrary to popular thinking, actually helped my slalom skiing!   But, in my continuous quest to stay ahead of the pack I piked up some 150 redster plugs at the end of last season to try.  In late spring they were just about useable but at the start of this season I quickly found that they were too one dimensional - off/on - to work well for me so they have now been cut down to circa 130 equivalent as well.  And for reference I am 5'8', 165#

 

NOTE!  i am talking about forward flex stiffness here NOT soft in lateral stiffness. As all my boots are plugs the lateral stiffness is an essential given.  And yes, the (real)  booster strap (I use the WC version) is also an essential part of the set-up.  The elasticity supports the progressive flex I like to be able to properly pressure the cuff.  My last action before countdown in the gate is a final tug on the booster, with the top clip relatively loose.

 

I suspect that many people are using a too-stiff boot with a relatively short ski to basically "point and squirt" rather than drive the ski.....:popcorn   But, whatever floats your boat. 

 

and as to the previous poster who referred to increasing pressure after the fall line .... really????  all you are doing then is applying the brakes......  :eek 

Great info! Went to the RS 130 this season. (Thanks Heluvaskier for Pat at Mudd, Sweat and Gears)  Best progressive flex I have felt since my original Flexon Comps! Was constantly looking for flex in my other boots. Notched the RS on both sides, cut the plastic so the Booster worked correctly and added a few strips of duct tape for forward lean and this is the best I have skied in years. Steepest edge angles I have ever carved. Attended Billy Kids Race Camp many years ago, went 5 times, one thing that was always drilled into us is to have a good boot flex. 

post #35 of 59

I have to go out and find a booster strap to try it out. However, yesterday I tried to tie the original strap of my Dalbellos around the liner instead of around the plastic cuff of the shell. Worked quite well. I felt like the fit at the top of the boot was more snug and the flex more progressive. I guess the real advantage of the booster strap would be that its flexible and more comfortable at the same time you can tighten it up to the max for a more direct feel. So for the skiers that use only one pair of boots for all skiing like myself it would benefit greatly.

post #36 of 59
post #37 of 59

I wonder how to decide if a racing or world cup booster is better?

post #38 of 59
I like the racer model. The wc is burly.
post #39 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post
 

I wonder how to decide if a racing or world cup booster is better?

 

The WC adds fourth nylon strap making it a more robust strap—less elasticity. I find the boosters in general give great rebound off the front of the boot. The tradeoff between the Race and the WC is ease of stretching the strap versus the rebound that the strap provides. The more elastic Race is easier to stretch, but can be over powered to the point where it does not rebound at release. If you’re skiing a ~150 plug boot and are able to flex it, I’d say, go for the WC. For a softer boot [say 130 and down] the WC may be overkill to the point where you don’t feel much difference between it and your normal power strap. 

post #40 of 59
So levy1 (and myself) are skiing in RS 130 boots, which come with a power strap with a buckle, not velcro. How does this compare to the various booster straps? Not as elastic?

post #41 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by XLTL View Post

So levy1 (and myself) are skiing in RS 130 boots, which come with a power strap with a buckle, not velcro. How does this compare to the various booster straps? Not as elastic?

 

The cam buckle is the same as a Booster strap, but the material of the strap isn't elastic, so it acts the same as a regular velcro power strap. I have the new RX130 with that strap, which is in the process of replacing my RS130's with the Race Booster strap. I can feel the difference markedly. The RX has no give in the strap, the RS with the booster does. That means the cuff in the RS hugs my leg much better than the RX, and moves with me more. The one advantage to the cam buckle on the newer Lange boots is that it is easier to tighten than an old style velcro strap. As soon as the RS's go into official retirement, the Booster is getting swapped onto the RX's. They just work better. 

post #42 of 59
To me the Booster is a totally different set up. The stock strap does not allow the boot to flex progressively like a booster but more like an on off switch. also the booster allowed a tighter fit on the liner and makes everything a hook up if that makes sense
post #43 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post

To me the Booster is a totally different set up. The stock strap does not allow the boot to flex progressively like a booster but more like an on off switch. also the booster allowed a tighter fit on the liner and makes everything a hook up if that makes sense

I'll need to consider a booster strap for next season, but the power strap w/buckle feels like such an improvement over the velcro strap on my old RX100 boots from last year. I'm not as advanced or aggressive as you levy1 or the other posters, but have already appreciated the benefit of the stiffer flex with the RS 130. I admit I'm not aware of my boot flexing while skiing, but there have been several occasions this year where the RS saved me from a fall with a quick rebalance and recovery when I felt the boot was very flexed. At 6'6" and 225 lb, the RX 100 let me down last year several times thus my desire for new boots. At my size, the RX 130 LV was not available, but I hear it is softer than the RS anyway. I can flex either standing in the store, but in the cold the RS is a different animal.
post #44 of 59
Everyone loves that flex of the RX models and the 130 should be great for you at your weight. Contrary to what almost everything I read says I had no problem flexing the RS in the extreme cold. I was very surprised and thought I'd have a lot more problem with the flex. I did go ahead notch and put on my racing booster strap and absolutely love them.
post #45 of 59
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by XLTL View Post

So levy1 (and myself) are skiing in RS 130 boots, which come with a power strap with a buckle, not velcro. How does this compare to the various booster straps? Not as elastic?

 A booster strap being elastic does not function like a woven strap with velcro.  As I do not use a lot of forward pressure on the tongue the booster acts more like a shock absorber.  When we ski the forward pressure we require of the boot top, as we hold a turn, tends to be fairly even. What I like about the booster is that it when terrain kicks back at you there is less sudden change in pressure.  In my particular case, as a teen I experienced extreme tib/fib trauma and anything that creates a sudden force to that area sends a painful pulse through my whole body. Consequently I am forced to be very smooth and precise with a light touch in the upper area of my boots. The booster helps me create just enough leverage to be effective without brute force leverage (which IMO is largely un-needed with modern ski shapes). 

post #46 of 59
Pain has a way of teaching fluidity and progressive balance.
post #47 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

Pain has a way of teaching fluidity and progressive balance.

It absolutely does.   If I may share an anecdote...

 

Two weeks before my final L3 exam an out of control skier had skied into me and sprained my knee. For those two weeks before the exam I treated it with ultrasound, Flexal 454 and ice. It was calmed down enough to ski still quite tender.  Fortunately for me they saved bump skiing for the third day and my knee was already pretty tender from the first two days. So I did what I could. When I received the written evaluation (passing all three days, of course) the examiner's comment was "Very smooth in bumps. Could be a little more aggressive".  Duh. 

post #48 of 59

Took my boots apart today and did some cutting and grinding. Shaved the front of the top part of the boot to allow for the strap to more directly pass over the linear and cut and grinded the rear off the lower part of the boot. Quite a lot. Skied the boot, felt great. Now Im going to try to find a booster strap.

post #49 of 59
Same thing here vin. Skied with a sore back and this older guy came up to me and said you are one of the smoothest skiers I've seen.
post #50 of 59
Thread Starter 
Uffda.
post #51 of 59

I've got a "pair of pairs".  Two sets of the same boot.  One pair fitted with the HD Booster strap , and the second set fitted with the in-elastic standard strap.

 

The Booster strap gives a better feel due to added snugness at the liner shin interface,  Sort of like wearing one of those elastic knee supports.  It's mostly just a trigger for your own anatomy and musculature to sort things out.  That is GOOD!   but for actual response and support from the boot etc.  It's the buckles and plastic doing the work!  I do tend to pull the pair with the boosters most often (when they are dry ;-)

 

ps  I ski VERY soft boots (though considered stiff in AT terms)     so you 150 flex folks might have other observations.

 

I'll be in the Booster'ed pair tomorrow on fresh blown and double groomed "snow"?  ;-)

post #52 of 59
Fresh blown and double groomed. Thats something you don't hear out West.
post #53 of 59

 

Don't rub it in!

 

The Chic-Chocs on Sunday!

post #54 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

Fresh blown and double groomed. Thats something you don't hear out West.

 

This is the first season I've seen mountains blowing snow in March. Special season in the east this year. 

post #55 of 59
And I've been fussy because we haven't had any 2-3 ft dumps. A warm front is coming in,not good.
post #56 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

And I've been fussy because we haven't had any 2-3 ft dumps. A warm front is coming in,not good.

 

You'll get no sympathy from the right coast members of the forum. 

post #57 of 59
Ah the life of a skier. Subjected to the whim of mother nature. Sigh... I'm going skiing okbye
post #58 of 59

This entire season we've had one day with 8" of snow, nothing more than a couple of inches any other day.  All man made.

post #59 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
 

 

You'll get no sympathy from the right coast members of the forum. 

skier's left as it were...?

 

:rotflmao:

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