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Recomendations for a wide twin tip all mountain ski

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

My son, who is 17, outgrew his twin tips. He has race skis, but non-race skiing is always on the twin tips. He is 5'10" and about 175 lbs.  Here is my short list for him:

 

Nordica Enforcer  100,  177 Soul Rider 97, 177  
       
Line Supernatural 100, 179 Sickday 95, 179 Supernatural 92, 179
       
Liberty Origin 96, 182    
       
Moment PB&J 101, 182 Bibby Pro 116, 184  
       
Blizzard Bonafide 98, 180    

 

 

We ski East Coast, all over NE, everywhere on the mtn, glades, bumps, groomers, steeps. He is close to an expert skier, doesn't really like the bumps, but can do them.  He is a good skier and doesn't spend any real time in the park. I warn him how long it will take him to resharpen his edges if he hits a rail, and he stays off them. He does like small jumps, not the big aerial stuff. He is a teenager, period.

 

I think the main criteria in a ski is it has to be easy and he can fart around on it, but it has to ski NE icy conditions (when not on race skis) and give him some float in powder.

 

These type of skis are not in my wheel house, so does this sound like a good list to evaluate and did I miss any?

 

So far, all the shops I called are out of the Enforcer already and my second choice is the Supernatural 100 which I am having a hard time finding a demo ski to try out. I would like him to demo the Nordica/Line/Blizzard skis and realize we can't demo the Liberty and Moment very easily.

 

Also not sure if he is too big for a 177-179 cm length or should jump up to the 185 cm length.

post #2 of 20

Wouldn't say any of the Line skis, the Enforcer or Bonafide are twin tip, they are directional all mountain skis, and the Bibby would be miserable in the conditions you mentioned, it's a versatile ski if you ski in a place like Alta/Bird, but not quite if you don't get a ton of snow in the season.

 

Some to consider, Line SFB or Supernatural 108 in the 186 something range (line are short). ON3P Kartel 98 or 108, 181cm, Blizzard Regulator/Peacemaker 181cm (guess that's the size).

 

Probably Kartel 98 or Regulator would be at the top of my list!

post #3 of 20

After demoing the Soul Rider at least three times and always liking it I finally bought a pair.  I spent last Friday on them at Bridger Bowl and I love these skis.  They are a true twin tip and I mounted them for all-mountain skiing since I don't ski in the park at all.  What I like about them is that they are not terribly stiff so they are quite good in powder, easy to ski in the trees and in the bumps.  They're OK on groomers but I would never want to spend a whole day skiing them on groomers, I have much better skis for that.  I'm 5'7", 150 pounds and ski the 177.  At your son's size I think he should be on the 185, they do ski short.  I've also skied the ON3P Kartel 98 and it's a great ski, I think it has better edge grip than the Soul Rider but it is heavier, IIRC.  I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

post #4 of 20

Most of these IMO are not really what he'd want for the east coast as a daily driver. Either because they're too wide (you may have noticed we don't always have soft snow) or because they're too soft for the speeds a racer might want. I'd suggest thinking about something in the 85-95 range. And if you could convince him to accept tip and tail early rise, rather than a true twin tip, you'd have a lot more choices and a lot better handling on ice. But if he holds out for true twins, maybe Armada is a place to look?  

post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 

They have to look like twin tips and have "cool" graphics. Turned up tails (as opposed to flat tails) is all that is really needed. You are probably getting the drift (and I hope my son never logs onto this site) but his tastes are based on appearance and I still haven't let go of the coat strings so I make sure he buys something that will work for the Ice Coast conditions. He is currently skiing on a pair of Stockli Rotor 84's, in 161 cm and not complaining, but he agrees he needs a longer ski. He wanted to buy a pair of Line Blends and I steered him to the "demo" Stockli purchase which was very reasonable.

 

He does have race skis and I picked up an old pair of Head Monster 78 skis for icy conditions. He will use the new skis as his daily driver (when not racing) but he does have other skis for really icy days. So they need to float him on soft days and be something he can skis all day on an average NE day. If really icy, he will be on another ski.

 

He did not get my ski fanatic gene and really doesn't get into figuring any of this stuff out. This will probably be the last ski purchase I will fund for him (spoken like a truely nieve parent) so want get him something versatile.

 

We are going to Jay in 3 weeks, so I am optimistically thinking we will ski some soft snow glades. I actually here they are just starting to open them up.

post #6 of 20
My son is a little taller and loves his Armada AR7 (85 mm full camber twin-tip) in 177 cm. Spent most of our trip last year to Killington skiing the glades (we are going again in March this year and I've warned him about the bad conditions!) . I wouldn't say they are very stiff though, if your son is looking for that, and they would need a new tune to be worth of double black diamond hard pack. My son used to go in the park and kind of beat them up, but now just does natural jumps on the side of trails and goofs around with doing 360s and skiing switch on the less steep parts and run-outs. Seems like a pretty fun ski that can be found for cheap. Yes, they have cool graphics! I got his at level9sports. I think Armada does make a stiffer, wider version, but I forget its name.
post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 

Ok, I have been reading, and What is a Jib??

 

here is some interesting info below, seems there are park skis Armada AR7, Jib freestyle skis Peacemaker/Regulator, and Directional skis (Nordica Enforcer). I am not quite sure what separates them, but I can understand flex, rocker, mount position, edges, width, weight.  anyway:

 

Quote:

I agree, for the most part. A directional all-mountain ski of a similar width and more effective edge like the Moment Belafonte, or even the Line Supernatural 108 (which is considerably more playful and dynamic feeling relative to the Belafonte) will absolutely feel more stable and predictable, and can much more easily be skied hard in firm, rough conditions. But the Belafonte and Supernatural 108 are both designed for firmer, rough conditions. The Peacemaker and the PB&J are intended to be playful, freestyle-oriented skis that have been beefed up a bit to be more capable in challenging, variable conditions.

So while the Peacemaker is definitely not a “directional all-mountain charger,” as Jason has said, it “can be pushed much harder than mostother playful all-mountain twin tips.” For example, the Peacemaker is more stable and can be skied more aggressively in variable, tricky conditions than the Nordica Soul Rider, the Line Sir Francis Bacon (according to Jason), and the K2 Shreditor 102. And in this respect, the Peacemaker and PB&J are again very similar.

post #8 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by bttocs View Post
 

Ok, I have been reading, and What is a Jib??

 

here is some interesting info below, seems there are park skis Armada AR7, Jib freestyle skis Peacemaker/Regulator, and Directional skis (Nordica Enforcer). I am not quite sure what separates them, but I can understand flex, rocker, mount position, edges, width, weight.  anyway:

 

park are usually more symmetric, narrow skis. jib skis are kinda of something in between a park and directional skis, wider not really center mounted or symmetric, but still rocker tip/tail twin. directional are definitely what the name says they work better going forward while park and jib skis are happy both forward and switch skiing! directional usually have flat tail, or a modest tail rocker.

 

on3p website is a good reference. take a look at the dimensions and rocker profile and compare park "prester", jib kartel/jeffrey and freeride billy goat/wrenegate. I think that will give you some visual reference

post #9 of 20

Forget the Bonafide, he's too light I think... I've heard really nice things about the Soul Rider and the Shreditor 92...

I also have a shreditor 102 for sale right now http://www.epicski.com/t/145761/fs-k2-shreditor-102  They are dead easy to ski in bumps and trees, can carve on soft groomed but are not really nice on icy conditions... albeit they would be better for your son as I weight 215 pounds and these skis are more for someone under 200...

The Enforcer are nice but they are not twin tips and are not dead easy to ski...

I own the Blizzard Peacemaker and really like them but I think they are for me what a less stiff ski like the shreditor could be for your son...

Another ski that I will try next week and heard nice things about is the Dynastar Slicer...

post #10 of 20

The Enforcer in 185.  He's too tall/big for shorter unless he wants a tight places or more turny ski, probably.  This ski is great on groomers, bumps, soft snow and powder.

 

@lakespapa skis back East and loves the Enforcer, even for icy slopes.   

 

The Shreditor 102 is a twin tip and a great ski (especially the 14/15 and unchanged 15/16 versions (different graphics), that got better).  The earlier version to me was different.   I own the 15/16.  Not sure it is as good back East - just don't know.   

 

The Soulrider is a neat ski too, but, again, not sure about it back East.   

post #11 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski otter View Post
 

The Enforcer in 185.  He's too tall/big for shorter unless he wants a tight places or more turny ski, probably.  This ski is great on groomers, bumps, soft snow and powder.

 

@lakespapa skis back East and loves the Enforcer, even for icy slopes.   

 

The Shreditor 102 is a twin tip and a great ski (especially the 14/15 and unchanged 15/16 versions (different graphics), that got better).  The earlier version to me was different.   I own the 15/16.  Not sure it is as good back East - just don't know.   

 

The Soulrider is a neat ski too, but, again, not sure about it back East.   


Let's just modify that: for hard snow. Ice is real.

post #12 of 20

To me the question with the K2 102 ski would be how it would do back East: would it have enough edge grip?  My guess is it would be comparable to the Enforcer.  

 

The right length for your son with the 102 would probably be the 184 (because back East) and maybe even the 191 (the size I got; for reference,150 lbs and 5'10", near expert).  Either is a fun, easy ski - playful or charging.  

 

I was clued into this ski in 191 by friends who work in the business, some of whom have skied with the K2 pros and talked with them about these skis, among others.  

 

Sean Pettit (~146 lbs.) and Seth Morrison (~168 lbs), the pro freestylers/big mountain skiers, ski K2s - in particular for mostly Sean the Pettitor/Shreditor 120 (most of the time) and the Shreditor 102 (early season and sometimes at resorts).   My friends have been on the lift with, skied along side of, or skied with both these guys here at Loveland Basin, including on these skis, since Seth at least lives in Summit County part of the year.  

 

My friends also told me they learned from the K2 pros that there is a semi-secret to these two skis: you can get them slightly longer and mount them forward (+2 to +4 1/2) - transforming the ski even for a more modest advanced skier. 

 

If you still want a shorter ski for tricks/switch or casual time with the kids, then that ski could have a closer to zero mount.  

 

Since I didn't have the pro option of having multiple pairs of the same ski with different mounting points, I got Marker demo and Schizo bindings; so I can change the mounting point forward and back, depending on the skier, conditions and ski plan for that day.  I'm happy with this option, and find different mount points fun for different conditions and skiing strategies. If I had to choose just one mount point with my 191s, I'd pick +3 1/2.  

 

(I'd have to demo to figure out a point for the 184 - maybe +2? Not sure. I know people who have gone 0 all the way to +4 with the 184.)

 

 A less hands-on person (like perhaps your son) might prefer picking one mount point.  

 

The 102 and 120 have similar flex and turn feel on non-powder days, despite their different widths. Sean is short, and a more freestyle skier - switch, spins, jumps, flips constantly.  So he usually skis these shorter, not sure how far forward.  Seth, a bit taller, more directional skier (though playful also), skis these almost like his old 116 Obsetheds, one size longer (191) and mounted forward, usually ~ +4 1/2 for at least the Obsethed, I'm told. 

 

 Me, I dial to ~+3 to +3 1/2 for regular driving the tips skiing, up to almost +4 1/2 for more turning in rougher, or more technical conditions.   

post #13 of 20
Thread Starter 

Thanks for all the replies. Mfa you know your jibs. Now I know a little more, thx.  Ski Otter good info. Mogsie, thanks but I am going in another direction. So I put my son on the scale today, and he weighs 200 lbs. Oh......   He does need to cut back a bit on the snacks, but I asked him what he wanted in a ski and the Liberty 96 seems to hit the mark the closest. Plus I found one in 182 cm at a Bethel shop and they will hold it for me. I think the Blister review of the ski perked my interest and my son likes the graphics (told you he is a visual person).  

 

Freestyle skis are an interesting side of sking that I know nothing about. I watched a Utube video and was pretty impressed. If only I was 20 or 30 years younger. I will report back after he (and me) try the skis and to see if Blister hit the nail on the head.

 

Beyond, I agree with your advice, teenagers are on their own wavelength and there is no changing it.

post #14 of 20

hum... you should have put him on the scale first; 25 pounds can make a big difference in ski suggestions...

post #15 of 20
Thread Starter 

I weighed him this summer and he was 175-180. He has been growing like a weed up, and now it is starting in the other direction. (I sure hope he never reads this site). I was pretty shocked to see he gained 20 lbs. Too many quick stops at McD's on the ride home from school. I thought the weight gain held off till college when they can get a hold of beer and wine. I have to get him out exercising with me, I could stand to loose 20 lbs myself.  (but I won't go out and buy new skis if I do........):beercheer:

post #16 of 20

Have you considered the Rossignol Slat?  It's a bit stiffer than the Soul Rider and I think would make a great ski for him at his weight.

 

Pretty good price right now with the Attack 13 too.  He'd want the 181cm:

 

http://www.skiessentials.com/2016-rossignol-slat-skis-w-tyrolia-attck-13-bindings.html

post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by bttocs View Post
 

I weighed him this summer and he was 175-180. He has been growing like a weed up, and now it is starting in the other direction. (I sure hope he never reads this site). I was pretty shocked to see he gained 20 lbs. Too many quick stops at McD's on the ride home from school. I thought the weight gain held off till college when they can get a hold of beer and wine. I have to get him out exercising with me, I could stand to loose 20 lbs myself.  (but I won't go out and buy new skis if I do........):beercheer:

:)

post #18 of 20

Man at 17y/o and 175lbs, IMO he should be in the 177cm area. Even if he has strong skills. Lots of good twin tips out there. skiessentials has great pricing. They are by far my favorite ski site. I've bought a lot from them in the past couple years.

 

20% off currently, off there already low prices.

post #19 of 20

I think the recs for the Soul Rider, the Rossi Slat and/or the very similar Dynastar Slicer in 181 cm make alotta sense.   I rode a 185 cm soul rider and the Slicer, and both were quite fun and I think are fairly characterized as all mountain twin tips.

post #20 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bttocs View Post

I asked him what he wanted in a ski and the Liberty Origin 96 seems to hit the mark the closest. Plus I found one in 182 cm at a Bethel shop and they will hold it for me. I think the Blister review of the ski perked my interest and my son likes the graphics (told you he is a visual person).  

 

Freestyle skis are an interesting side of sking that I know nothing about. I watched a Utube video and was pretty impressed. If only I was 20 or 30 years younger. I will report back after he (and me) try the skis and to see if Blister hit the nail on the head.

 

Spent the weekend at Sunday River and skied the Liberty skis. My son got on a Origin 96 in 182 cm and I was on a Liberty Helix (105mm) in 186 cm. Luke at Sport Thoma in Bethel ME did me a solid in getting demo skis. Of course the best laid plans go awry. My demo Liberty Origin 96 in 186cm had AT bindings on them (heel lifts/locks) and they weren't big enough to fit my 29.5 boots. They told me they come in small and large size and I needed the large. Took out the Helix model ski instead, also reviewed by Blister.  To jump ahead, my son now owns a brand new Origin 96 in 182 cm. He has 25 likes on snapchat (or facebook, I don't know) already. He captioned the photo of his new skis "Give me Liberty or give me death"   I thought it was funny.  I got to ski them, and just like Blister said, Holy Shit. Definitely in the running for best ski ever. They really do grip like a race ski underfoot and have med. to soft rockered tips and a really good tail. I couldn't keep up with him. He was flying and loving it. His synopsis of them was,  I can go as fast as I want and actually avoid hitting people with them. (tongue in cheek). I traded skis with him and I only made two runs on them and I was very impressed. I need the longer length, but these skis are like nothing I have ever been on before. extreme rocker with race ski grip, a very unique combo. Not necessarily for everyone, but we liked them.  BTW, we skied them on some really hard packed boiler plate and they gripped like a pair of crampons.  They didn't feel wide at all, and they were very light and felt that way. One hell of a ski. I can see why Blister said you have to have them setup just right. Blister nailed the review.

 

Oh yeah, I also skied the Helix and my synopsis is they are just OK, nothing bad, nothing exceptionally good. I wanted to get off of them by noon. Kind of wasted my demo fee, especially when I saw a pair of Kastle MX 98 in the demo rack when I brought them back at the end of the day.(wished I was on the MX98's) Oh well, not all skis are for all people. I think the Blister review on them was a bit optimistic, but I was on hard pack snow, they were not.


Edited by bttocs - 2/28/16 at 7:49pm
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