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Revelstoke needs a new lift - Page 4

post #91 of 132
I would've thought kicking horse would be in there somewhere. Not sure if it's still the case but midweek supposedly the place is dead. Is the gondola slow or something?
post #92 of 132
Thread Starter 

A lot of skiers from Alberta seem to skip Kicking Horse and drive the extra 2 hours to Revelstoke for whatever reason... Kicking Horse does get busy on certain days for the same reason due to lack of lift infrastructure ... but the snow fall there is not as consistent, and it's not a mountain anyone wants to ski when it hasn't snowed for awhile so it would seem...

 

I've never skied Kicking Horse personally as our mountains don't do reciprocals.  I'll to the Okanagan or West Kootenays for a trip.

post #93 of 132
I was under the impression that the snow preserved better at kicking horse (up top at least) due to their lighter snow and slightly more favourable elevation.

Anecdotally, when I was at revelstoke during a thaw freeze cycle, kicking horse stayed nicer up top. I thought it was slightly less vulnerable to warm ups.
post #94 of 132

i can never understand why so many Alberta skiers by-pass Kicking Horse and  Lake Louise to get to Revy.

but we often bypass Revy to get to Kicking Horse when coming from Vancouver and I am sure some find that odd. . 

as to snow Kicking Horse gets way less but it is lighter and preserves much better when they do,

The amount of steeps with  no hike required is also far superior.

post #95 of 132

Kicking Horse is much less vulnerable to warm-ups.  But there's still a large pucker factor on those steep chutes if it hasn't snowed recently.  And there are often enough obstacles showing to consider much of it a no-fall zone. KH often reports all runs open under conditions 99+% of skiers wouldn't go near a quarter of them.

 

Nonetheless I overall agree with the above two posts.  Unless there's marginal coverage or it's been a fairly long dry spell I would tend to prefer Kicking Horse over Revelstoke for the better snow preservation. 

post #96 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulharin View Post
 

Don't expect a new lift anytime soon it would seem.  Tom Galargi spoke at an open house the other day and pretty much said the approved tree house will stall the resort; yet provided no time table or plan for development even if the tree house was declined... essentially he considers the mountain in it's infancy and that no further lift, or terrain expansion is required unless they can sell more real estates... good luck selling anymore real estate if you have no intention of expanding the mountain in the foreseeable..

They can't sell real estate because the condos in the Sutton Place Hotel are overpriced (they're cheaper on the secondary market than buying from the resort directly) and the Monashee Estates development has major infrastructure deficiencies that need to be addressed. My feeling is more moderately priced condos, in the $300/sq-ft range, would sell. Right now, the condos are listed for about $600 per sq-ft, which is way too high.

 

I wrote this in the Review, but I do feel Northlands is missing out by not developing any new real estate at the resort. There's all sorts of development plans happening in town. There's demand for housing in Revelstoke. There's an explosion of vacation rentals in town and new hotels being built or planned, but the resort isn't getting any of that because they won't build anything new and are instead resting with the pricey Sutton Place Hotel, hoping everyone will want to stay there.

post #97 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex C View Post
 

They can't sell real estate because the condos in the Sutton Place Hotel are overpriced (they're cheaper on the secondary market than buying from the resort directly) and the Monashee Estates development has major infrastructure deficiencies that need to be addressed. My feeling is more moderately priced condos, in the $300/sq-ft range, would sell. Right now, the condos are listed for about $600 per sq-ft, which is way too high.

 

I wrote this in the Review, but I do feel Northlands is missing out by not developing any new real estate at the resort. There's all sorts of development plans happening in town. There's demand for housing in Revelstoke. There's an explosion of vacation rentals in town and new hotels being built or planned, but the resort isn't getting any of that because they won't build anything new and are instead resting with the pricey Sutton Place Hotel, hoping everyone will want to stay there.

 

edit: I screwed up this post. The following is my response to Alex Cs above post:

Why does Northlands (company that owns RMR) have to do the developing? Can't they just sell serviced building lots to individual home builders or other developers who build and then sell condo apartments?

post #98 of 132
Thread Starter 

Revelstoke seemed to miss the boat on capitalizing on it's hype while it had a good opportunity; seems we will now be losing our status as most vertical in North America to a much higher elevation ski resort.  Certainly going to take away some of our international/national visits; despite Valemount being more challenging to get to.

post #99 of 132
That's years away though no?
post #100 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post

That's years away though no?

No, decades away if at all.

post #101 of 132
Thread Starter 

Valemount was just approved and the money and investment is already in place. Their goal is the 2017/2018 season to be up at running.  Unless all of a sudden investors start pulling out after the government just approved the master plan and gave them the go ahead to start construction. It will happen, if not that year then the following year unless we hit another global res session / depression before then.  This is not the same as the Jumbo failure.

post #102 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulharin View Post
 

Valemount was just approved and the money and investment is already in place. Their goal is the 2017/2018 season to be up at running.  Unless all of a sudden investors start pulling out after the government just approved the master plan and gave them the go ahead to start construction. It will happen, if not that year then the following year unless we hit another global res session / depression before then.  This is not the same as the Jumbo failure.

 

Who are the investors?

post #103 of 132

Hunter Milborn is one of the investors. He was involved with the development of Revelstoke Mountain Resort. I'm not sure if he's a money guy or simply a guy with experience selling condos. Greg Marchant is another Ontario real estate guy that's got a stake. The chairman of the company is Stephen Leahy, a Vancouver mining executive. The big question is whether or not any of them have access to the kind of big money you need to get the resort off the ground. You're looking at at least $100,000,000 to get started. Condo pre-sales will only go so far.

 

As for the vertical drop, I think it will take a while for Valemount to get to it's full vertical. Revelstoke will be able to say you can ski at all in one shot, which you won't be able to do at Valemount, from what I can tell by looking at the master plan.

post #104 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex C View Post
 

Hunter Milborn is one of the investors. He was involved with the development of Revelstoke Mountain Resort. I'm not sure if he's a money guy or simply a guy with experience selling condos. Greg Marchant is another Ontario real estate guy that's got a stake. The chairman of the company is Stephen Leahy, a Vancouver mining executive. The big question is whether or not any of them have access to the kind of big money you need to get the resort off the ground. You're looking at at least $100,000,000 to get started. Condo pre-sales will only go so far.

 

As for the vertical drop, I think it will take a while for Valemount to get to it's full vertical. Revelstoke will be able to say you can ski at all in one shot, which you won't be able to do at Valemount, from what I can tell by looking at the master plan.

 

The initial real estate developer owners (as well as the current hotel chain owner) of Revy were not people with ski industry experience and as a result mistakes were made. The same was true with Kicking Horse which was developed by the same architect who was behind the failed Jumbo Glacier resort and is now developing Valemount. It sounds like Valemount is going to be built by the some of the exact same people so hopefully they have learned from their mistakes at KH, Revy, and Jumbo.

post #105 of 132

Oh man.  Are they going to rely on Condo sales before they do anything with the resort like Revelstoke and Kicking Horse?  If so, hopefully there will be a decent amount of beginner terrain and hopefully they start of with more lift infrastructure than the aforementioned resorts.  7 hours from Calgary, 5 from Edmonton.  Doesn't sound like the best spot for condos.  I'm no expert though.  

post #106 of 132

It seems clear from the proposal draft that Valemount will be much more beginner/intermediate friendly than Revelstoke or Kicking Horse.  Whether that will overcome the even more remote location in terms of condo sales and/or skier visits remains to be seen.

post #107 of 132
Thread Starter 

It surprises me how far people will come to go to Revelstoke due to hype and marketing... Valemount will be a bit more challenging to get too, but still; people will go if the hype and snow is there...  only thing is it doesn't really factor in to a "multi resort" ski trip, as there is only Marmot near by.  Sun Peaks would be the next nearest.  You'll certainly get people from Edmonton, Prince George and Kamloops.   Driving up from the coast Valemount is actually not that much further from Revelstoke... bout an hour further.  It also makes sense to go to Sun Peaks and then carry on to Valemount, as you'd be back tracking from Sun Peaks to go Revelstoke.

 

I'd welcome it at this point as a benefit to Revy, as RMR has been stalled the last 8 years and have threatened to stall further because of the tree house development.  Having to line up an hour and a half before the mountain opens for first tracks is brutal. On really busy days you need to be there early, bang out a couple runs and then head for the ripper chair before the crowd spawns at the stoke chair.  Once all the avalanche control is down the crowd spreads out pretty well, but that's not usually until noon.

 

But I guess I can't really single Revy out, most mountains in the BC interior have been slow to build new lifts... Red and Whitewater were the most recent in the last 3-5 years..  But mountains in the Okanagan or Purcell / Rockies has been close to 10+ years since a new lift was built... but at least those mountains can disperse crowds and line ups with multiple options from the day start.

post #108 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulharin View Post
 

It surprises me how far people will come to go to Revelstoke due to hype and marketing... Valemount will be a bit more challenging to get too, but still; people will go if the hype and snow is there...  only thing is it doesn't really factor in to a "multi resort" ski trip, as there is only Marmot near by.  Sun Peaks would be the next nearest.  You'll certainly get people from Edmonton, Prince George and Kamloops.   Driving up from the coast Valemount is actually not that much further from Revelstoke... bout an hour further.  It also makes sense to go to Sun Peaks and then carry on to Valemount, as you'd be back tracking from Sun Peaks to go Revelstoke.

 

I'd welcome it at this point as a benefit to Revy, as RMR has been stalled the last 8 years and have threatened to stall further because of the tree house development.  Having to line up an hour and a half before the mountain opens for first tracks is brutal. On really busy days you need to be there early, bang out a couple runs and then head for the ripper chair before the crowd spawns at the stoke chair.  Once all the avalanche control is down the crowd spreads out pretty well, but that's not usually until noon.

 

But I guess I can't really single Revy out, most mountains in the BC interior have been slow to build new lifts... Red and Whitewater were the most recent in the last 3-5 years..  But mountains in the Okanagan or Purcell / Rockies has been close to 10+ years since a new lift was built... but at least those mountains can disperse crowds and line ups with multiple options from the day start.

 

One of the reasons for so few new lifts in B.C. is that currently the interior of B.C. is overbuilt for lifts, Revelstoke and Kicking Horse notwithstanding.

 

We often get skiers at Sun Peaks who spend a few days getting their ski legs prior to going heli-skiing at nearby Mike Weigele Heliskiing out of Blue River. Those skiers and heli-skiers on their way to CMH Valemount might go the Valemount Resort for a few days instead of Sun Peaks, but that is not enough traffic to really impact a ski resort in any sort of significant way.

post #109 of 132
Thread Starter 
Frustrates me to keep seeing new articles online and in magazines that RMR is a great place to escape lines and crowds. This has not been the case for at least 3 years unless you're there on a day where it hasn't snowed. Pow days are brutal weekends n peak season.
post #110 of 132
Thread Starter 

Opens on Saturday, prepare for lines that would make Whistler cry.  Most likely it will only be terrain on the two chairs that's open.  People are already camping in the line up.

post #111 of 132

The resort is recommending heading back onto the cut runs halfway down the stoke. Seems like the top is good, but it deteriorates really quick. 

I'm noticing similar conditions in the Rockies. Snow is pretty good above 2000m, but not much below. At least we have a fair bit of terrain above 2000 here.

 

Will you be making it to opening day? Post pics!

 

I usually try to hit up opening weekends, but it doesn't seem like Fernie or Revy are worth the drives...yet.

post #112 of 132
Thread Starter 

I was up Sat-Tues; weekend was busy but conditions were good above 1800m.  But the mountain is completely skied out now, including the side country; lots of icy and wind effected patches now with a lot of sticks and rocks poking out below 1800m; the lower 2/3rd's of the mountain is still closed and will remain that way for awhile... it looks like were in an arctic high ridge dry zone for 2+ weeks right now... not great when December is usually our heaviest snow month... Novemeber was wet but much too warm, now December looks to be very cold but dry while all the storms are tracking south.

post #113 of 132
Thread Starter 
For this winter season they expanded the terrain park to include some easier features... no other glading, terrain or facility improvements.
Edited by Kulharin - 12/17/16 at 8:53am
post #114 of 132
Thread Starter 

Today might have been the busiest day I've ever witnessed at Revelstoke (Dec 30th)... or at least on par with opening day.  Already a decent line started at 7:00 ... the line to get breakfast was 20+ minutes by 7:15.   By the time the Gondola opened at 8:30 I'm guessing that line from the back would have been well over 45 minutes.  Long lines waits at the stoke chair and mid-station gondola by 10.

 

When I left the mountain at 11:30 the parking lots were max capacity with dozens of vehicle overflowing onto the road with a lot more traffic on the way up...

 

Too much hype and marketing, not enough development or improvements.

post #115 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulharin View Post
 

Today might have been the busiest day I've ever witnessed at Revelstoke (Dec 30th)... or at least on par with opening day.  Already a decent line started at 7:00 ... the line to get breakfast was 20+ minutes by 7:15.   By the time the Gondola opened at 8:30 I'm guessing that line from the back would have been well over 45 minutes.  Long lines waits at the stoke chair and mid-station gondola by 10.

 

When I left the mountain at 11:30 the parking lots were max capacity with dozens of vehicle overflowing onto the road with a lot more traffic on the way up...

 

Too much hype and marketing, not enough development or improvements.

 

I'm planning to visit Revy/Kicking Horse at the end of February, how have the lines at Rev been since opening?  

 

After the hectic opening has it been similar to last year, or worse?

 

If I go it'll be mostly weekdays + 1 Sunday.

post #116 of 132
post #117 of 132
Thread Starter 

Depends on the day, if it snows add 1 point, if it snows after having not snowed in awhile add 2 points, if it's a weekend or holiday add a point, if they are forecasting a day or two of heavy snow in advance, add a point.

 

The Friday leading into New Years weekend was the busiest on record by a large margin. But this season has offered many long snow droughts, 2 - 2 week droughts so far and we could potentially be starting a 3rd looking at the forecast with almost no snow for January.

 

If it snows more than 20cm I get to the mountain shortly after 7am. On busy days the stoke line sucks and average wait time there is 15-20 minutes by 9:30 for a couple hours, quieting down around lunch, then picking up again in the afternoon... singles line actually takes long on busy days as no body regulates / directs the line... Ripper tends to get busier late morning but line up isn't as bad as stoke... If you show up at 8:30 on a really busy day parking sucks and expect to wait in line for 45 minutes at the Gondola, before waiting in line as the Stoke chair, unless you just ski down to the lower mountain.

 

Every year gets a bit busier than the last but timing and conditions are the biggest factor. If it doesn't snow the night/day before line ups are rarely an issue.

post #118 of 132

Kulharin, not sure if you caught it, but Graham Rennie, the president of RMR, was on the radio the other morning saying the plan is to increase capacity of the gondola and the Stoke, and to cut a run from the top of the gondola to the bottom of the Ripper. I've heard talk of this for years, but it's the first time I've heard it said it on the record.

post #119 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex C View Post
 

Kulharin, not sure if you caught it, but Graham Rennie, the president of RMR, was on the radio the other morning saying the plan is to increase capacity of the gondola and the Stoke, and to cut a run from the top of the gondola to the bottom of the Ripper. I've heard talk of this for years, but it's the first time I've heard it said it on the record.

 

I have long suspected that they had not maxed out the number of cabins and chairs on the gondola and Stoke chair so great news that they are finally doing it.

 

It is very puzzling that they did not connect the top of the gondola to the bottom of the Ripper chair with a run from day one of the Ripper installation. I had assumed it was just not possible but I guess now that it comes to light that it can be done it just underscores what I have always suspected: RMR has less than competent management.

post #120 of 132

Calling it a run might be optimistic.   Looks more like it would just be another heinous traverse.

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