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edge planer on titanal question

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 

I have been slowly losing my fight with keeping my edges sharp on my rossi St Tis.  After about 70 days of skiing on them, 35 of which has been on man made and ice, I decided it was time to take it to the shop for a base grind and to reset the base.  After a brief discussion, the guy at the shop told me that I really need to plane that layer of titanal which abuts the metal edge of the Rosssi.  According to him, it will hinder the sharpening of the edges.  He said to take the edge planer and adjust it so you can take that down enough so it does not hinder the file.  Seems to make sense because I am beginning to feel like my files are beginning to "ride" on something.  Anyway, he is going to take care of this for me.  

 

So here is my question.  I have a SKS sidewall cutter.  Very simple tool with a simple blade.  Will that blade take down that layer of titanal?  I have the Rossi LT as well, so I would have to do it that ski sooner or later.    Thanks  Pete

post #2 of 10

Yes,  as long as you can adjust the blade to align with the titanal, but

 

You should look at using a 7 degree side bevel tool (www.Artechski.com makes one) and a short panzer file. 

 

Start at 7 degrees for a couple of passes and then use the panzer in a guide 1 degree over your fnal edge abgle, so if you use a 3 degree as a final angle make a couple of good solid passes with a 4 degree. 

 

Then get ride of the panzer and use a 3 degree with a 13 TPC short file . You can then go to a 2nd cut a dn then a progression of diamond stones. 

 

Cutting back the upper edge (and titanal) with the panzer is called backfiling!

post #3 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

Yes,  as long as you can adjust the blade to align with the titanal, but

 

You should look at using a 7 degree side bevel tool (www.Artechski.com makes one) and a short panzer file. 

 

Start at 7 degrees for a couple of passes and then use the panzer in a guide 1 degree over your fnal edge abgle, so if you use a 3 degree as a final angle make a couple of good solid passes with a 4 degree. 

 

Then get ride of the panzer and use a 3 degree with a 13 TPC short file . You can then go to a 2nd cut a dn then a progression of diamond stones. 

 

Cutting back the upper edge (and titanal) with the panzer is called backfiling!

AMan.........thank you.  That actually makes a lot of sense.  Do you do the 4 degree just so it is easier to refresh the 3 during the season?  How often are you hitting the edge again with the 7?  It sounds like you do not even bother using a traditional edge planer (for lack of a better term).

 

Is this what you are using?  http://www.tognar.com/beast-sidewall-planer-panzar/

 

 Pete

post #4 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterk123 View Post
 

I have been slowly losing my fight with keeping my edges sharp on my rossi St Tis.  After about 70 days of skiing on them, 35 of which has been on man made and ice, I decided it was time to take it to the shop for a base grind and to reset the base.  After a brief discussion, the guy at the shop told me that I really need to plane that layer of titanal which abuts the metal edge of the Rosssi.  According to him, it will hinder the sharpening of the edges.  He said to take the edge planer and adjust it so you can take that down enough so it does not hinder the file.  Seems to make sense because I am beginning to feel like my files are beginning to "ride" on something.  Anyway, he is going to take care of this for me.  

 

So here is my question.  I have a SKS sidewall cutter.  Very simple tool with a simple blade.  Will that blade take down that layer of titanal?  I have the Rossi LT as well, so I would have to do it that ski sooner or later.    Thanks  Pete


I pretty much second what Atomic said above.  I use the 7 degree BEAST.  I like it fine.  Often I tilt it a bit and make a stronger angle.  I don't tune the one over deal like Atomic, but it too is a fine method.

Takes some practice to use.  I plane until I just get into the top of the side edge a bit.

That said the SKS is also a fine tool.

post #5 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterk123 View Post
 

AMan.........thank you.  That actually makes a lot of sense.  Do you do the 4 degree just so it is easier to refresh the 3 during the season?  How often are you hitting the edge again with the 7?  It sounds like you do not even bother using a traditional edge planer (for lack of a better term).

 

Is this what you are using?  http://www.tognar.com/beast-sidewall-planer-panzar/

 

 Pete

I only use the 7 the first time after a grind when I do the side edges. All maintenance I do with diamond stones on the side edge (and then a ceramic or Surgical stone)  only unless I get some really bad damage. 


Edited by Atomicman - 2/20/16 at 7:28pm
post #6 of 10

Titanal is a high strength aluminum alloy.  Some think it has titanium, but, nope.

https://www.amag.at/fileadmin/user_upload/amag/Downloads/AluReport/EN/AR-2009-3-EN-AR_3_09_EN_Sports.pdf

post #7 of 10
Thread Starter 

Hey A-Man and J,

 

Thank you for the tips.  I never realized that the titanal could be easily taken down by my sidewall planer.  I also have one of the adjustable edge guides.  It goes to five degrees.  I added four layers of duct tape to the bottom edge to increase the angles and boom! it back filed beautifully.  Duct will remain since I don't let that thing go near my edges anymore.  Went to a fine file with the 3 degree guide and it sharpened the edge with barely any pressure from my hands.  Worked my way down to a 400 grit diamond and I'm done.  

 

That was a valuable lesson.  I never would have guessed that the little layer of metal could be so problematic.    Pete

post #8 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterk123 View Post
 

Hey A-Man and J,

 

Thank you for the tips.  I never realized that the titanal could be easily taken down by my sidewall planer.  I also have one of the adjustable edge guides.  It goes to five degrees.  I added four layers of duct tape to the bottom edge to increase the angles and boom! it back filed beautifully.  Duct will remain since I don't let that thing go near my edges anymore.  Went to a fine file with the 3 degree guide and it sharpened the edge with barely any pressure from my hands.  Worked my way down to a 400 grit diamond and I'm done.  

 

That was a valuable lesson.  I never would have guessed that the little layer of metal could be so problematic.    Pete


That's super good news!  We all learn little by little.  I like the way you took advantage of you adjustable tool.  I assume you wrapped the tape at the bottom only to produce the desired angle.  Nice.  Sidewall planing doesn't have to be perfect.  Just enough to get the tune done.  One can always use some sandpaper to smooth things out a bit above the edge.

Now, here is a super long video about shaping a sandwich ski.  Yes, it is about saving the top sheets from damage, but it's even more for performance of high edge angle carves.

Edit: This also shows a ski with the aluminum above the edge.  Again a long video, but will help many much to get the point.
 

post #9 of 10
Thread Starter 

Oh ya..........I went at the top sheet with the panzer file. Then sanded with 220 grit paper.  Nice and round and smooth.  I figured what the hell, I had put in the effort, might as well go all the way :)  

 

I think I need to buy more skis.  This process was actually a lot of fun.  

post #10 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterk123 View Post
 

Oh ya..........I went at the top sheet with the panzer file. Then sanded with 220 grit paper.  Nice and round and smooth.  I figured what the hell, I had put in the effort, might as well go all the way :)  

 

I think I need to buy more skis.  This process was actually a lot of fun.  


Right on.  It's fun to buy some $30.00 junk skis and work the crap out of them.  No need to ski them per se.  Just good learning tools.

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