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skate binding heel lock

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

on a skate binding, how does the heel stay in place?

post #2 of 18
Same as on any x-country binding: there are ridges on the binding plate that mesh with grooves in the boot sole.

Solomon bindings (and maybe others?) also have a second retention arm that attaches to the boot under the ball of the foot for a bit more stability.
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha407 View Post

Same as on any x-country binding: there are ridges on the binding plate that mesh with grooves in the boot sole.

Solomon bindings (and maybe others?) also have a second retention arm that attaches to the boot under the ball of the foot for a bit more stability.

If you pull up fairly solidly they can just come out?

post #4 of 18
Oh yeah. It's only attached at the front - heels are totally free to move up and down.
post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha407 View Post

Oh yeah. It's only attached at the front - heels are totally free to move up and down.

 

how does a stiff rear bumper keep the heel attached? What holds it down?

post #6 of 18
Are you familiar with classic x-country bindings? Skate bindings are basically the same, but with a stiffer toe bumper so the heel doesn't flop around quite as much.

But the heel is still completely free to move up and down - the only attachment is at the toe.

Not sure how else to explain it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question?
post #7 of 18

Heels are not locked in place.  They stay close to the ski both as a function of the stiffer toe bumper in the binding and b/c of technique.  You push off the edged ski from your whole foot, including the heel, so you don't have to think about heel retention.  

post #8 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tch View Post
 

Heels are not locked in place.  They stay close to the ski both as a function of the stiffer toe bumper in the binding and b/c of technique.  You push off the edged ski from your whole foot, including the heel, so you don't have to think about heel retention.  

I've only used the classic :). I was thinking more about when you pull the ski back to the middle, doesn the ski automatically fall off the heel?

post #9 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonFreeman View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tch View Post
 

Heels are not locked in place.  They stay close to the ski both as a function of the stiffer toe bumper in the binding and b/c of technique.  You push off the edged ski from your whole foot, including the heel, so you don't have to think about heel retention.  

I've only used the classic :). I was thinking more about when you pull the ski back to the middle, doesn the ski automatically fall off the heel?

 

You mean when you're gliding on the opposite leg,  and you pick up the previous leg, then set it back down again?     Sure, it falls off.     But so what?   As soon as you set that ski down and transfer weight to it the heel will be back where it belongs.  

Locking the heel down onto the ski would kill a major source of your motive power when skating - the ability to fire the calf muscle by plantar flexing.    It would also limit your top speed at any given cadence by shortening your kick. 

post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

 

You mean when you're gliding on the opposite leg,  and you pick up the previous leg, then set it back down again?     Sure, it falls off.     But so what?   As soon as you set that ski down and transfer weight to it the heel will be back where it belongs.  

Locking the heel down onto the ski would kill a major source of your motive power when skating - the ability to fire the calf muscle by plantar flexing.    It would also limit your top speed at any given cadence by shortening your kick. 

Reason I ask is I also saw some nordic skates the other where you can use XC boots in them but it seemed odd that the heel might be loose.

On the other hand whenever I see ski skaters, the ski never detaches from their boot...

post #11 of 18

If it seems that way, it's b/c the stiff bumpers on the skate ski bindings keep the boot pretty tight to the ski.  The toe piece doesn't allow the ski to hinge or hang absolutely freely; the bumper allows forceful toe-off, but keeps the unweighted boot pretty tight to the ski.  Does this make sense?  

post #12 of 18
I think it probably depends on skill level and technique. Watch some good skiers and you will see the heel come up off the ski.

Nordic-Ski-World-Championship.jpg
post #13 of 18

Not all of us are *quite* that strong ;):eek

post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha407 View Post

I think it probably depends on skill level and technique. Watch some good skiers and you will see the heel come up off the ski.

Nordic-Ski-World-Championship.jpg

so then you have to lift the ski back to centre or you risk dragging it and maybe catching an edge?

post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonFreeman View Post
 
 

so then you have to lift the ski back to centre or you risk dragging it and maybe catching an edge?

 

Lift - re-center - setdown is all part of the glide phase.  

You definitely don't want the back ski on the snow until you're ready to put weight on it again - it would be a rather effective brake.

post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonFreeman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha407 View Post

I think it probably depends on skill level and technique. Watch some good skiers and you will see the heel come up off the ski.

Nordic-Ski-World-Championship.jpg
so then you have to lift the ski back to centre or you risk dragging it and maybe catching an edge?

Try it and you'll understand. smile.gif Fun stuff.
post #17 of 18

Skis goes off the heel, just like speed skates go (at least for last 15+ years). When you push from side, you basically push from toes not from heel, and you lift heel (there was better explanation from someone who doesn't have as much problems with English as I do :)). With heel looked down, your push would be much less powerfull and much less explosive, and your speed would be much slower. Just try to skate with alpine skis, and you will see how much harder it is (not just because of super heavy equipment, but basically because of locked down heel). But thing is, with current top of line xc ski boots, with carbon soles, boots don't bend all that much, so heel lift is smaller, but it's still there. But it's hard to see in real time, as it all happens relatively fast.

PS: As far as bindings goes, Salomon skating binding does have another "anchor" to lock boot down some 3-4cm behind front pivot, but it's suppose to be for better power transmission not for stability. But this will be gone in very short time, as even Salomon is now switching to Rottefella system, which doesn't have this, and in pretty much notime, Rottefella will be only xc ski binding system existing.

post #18 of 18

Some advice point the toe down. That has the effect of keeping the tail of ski high so it doesn't drag. 

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