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Does anyone have experience with Dalbello Panterra 120 or Full Tilt Descendant boots? Or FT "Booter" boot?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

Looking for anyone who has skied for a while in any of these boots. Tried the Panterra, super good fit, the shop is getting a pair of Descendants in for me to try (it's a multi-store business and the local store had sold out).  Just want to get any impressions you may be able to share. Any issues or quality problems?

They also have a pair of 2013 FT Booters that fit well but I'm concerned it's not enough of an "all mountain" boot for me.  Thoughts?

 

Thanks!!

post #2 of 20

Please define "all-mountain" boot as opposed to some other kind of non-race boot.  No, I am not being facetious.

post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 

The Booter is targeted as a "park" boot.  I noticed the flex was a bit softer than the Dalbello, although actually very close to a Lange RX130 I tried on (which surprised me by how soft the flex felt on it).

I know nothing about park specific products, if you have some words of wisdom on that, please share.  No, I'm not being facetious either.

post #4 of 20

For what its worth (with the variable surrounding a well-fitting boot, not much), I'm very happy with my Full Tilt Drop Kicks a couple of years ago. I admit that choices in my size (24/24.5 male) were limited in Toronto, but these fit well - at least in part due to the intuition liner, which I really like.  These are sold as a park boot, but the only tangible difference with their 'all mountain' boots is the flex. I tried the stock 6-flex tongue for a bit, found it too soft, and bought an 8-flex tongue (from FT website).  Now, they perform as I wanted.

 

Still - everyone has a different foot and likes a different feel.

post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikingfiend13 View Post
 

For what its worth (with the variable surrounding a well-fitting boot, not much), I'm very happy with my Full Tilt Drop Kicks a couple of years ago. I admit that choices in my size (24/24.5 male) were limited in Toronto, but these fit well - at least in part due to the intuition liner, which I really like.  These are sold as a park boot, but the only tangible difference with their 'all mountain' boots is the flex. I tried the stock 6-flex tongue for a bit, found it too soft, and bought an 8-flex tongue (from FT website).  Now, they perform as I wanted.

 

Still - everyone has a different foot and likes a different feel.

Thanks for the input.  That is one thing I like about the FTs, that you can change tongues to change the flex.  I have intuition liners in my current (old) boots, the power wraps, so that may be why I like the feel of the FTs and the Dalbellos.  I'll be going back Friday night when they have the Descendants in for me to try.  My only concern with those is I have read where people are having problem with the tongue separating from the rivet that holds it to the shell

post #6 of 20
Park boots typically have a hard rubber zeppa rather than hard plastic and that's it. I saw the new design FTs at Copper Mountain last season after the SIA show, but didn't pay much attention to them since I was satisfied with my FT Classics. One thing to keep in mind about the Full Tilts is that the Intuition liner they use does not play well with a custom footbed because the sole is 9mm thick instead of the standard 2mm. Intuition liners made for Dalbello use a 2mm sole. If there's a Head dealer near you, contact them and see if they have the new Head Hammer or Thrasher. Both are cabrio boots. I have a Hammer 110 that I've been working on to make it fit, almost there, and it's a pretty stiff boot. They also make a 130 flex. It doesn't have an Intuition liner but the shell is heat moldable. But, since you like the booter you must ahve wide feet and the Hammer is a 98mm last.

I asked what you meant by all-mountain because just last week someone came into the shop looking for new boots and insisted they wanted "all-mountain" boots but had no idea what they meant. I suspect they saw an ad for some ski boot that used that term. The person bought boots that fit and that they could flex and that's what counts.
post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 

LOL...I was hoping the question was something like that.  I've learned not to have pre-conceived notions about anything these days.  The Dalbello wasn't on my radar but the fit was amazing... super snug all around with no hotspots, and this was without doing a heat molding of the liners.  I also tried on the K2 Spyne, one of the Salomon boots, an Atomic Hawk and the Lange RX130.... all the traditional boots felt loose and sloppy by comparison.  As I mentioned, I have the overlap intuition liners in my old Tecnicas, so maybe thats a factor.

I have to go back and compare the flex to my current boots, I'm concerned the Dalbellos may be a bit stiff by comparison.  Was dropping my skis off for a base ad edge grind and since the shop was a little slow, I figured it wouldn't hurt to start the process (my current shells are 15 years old).

I'll keep the sole thickness difference in mind, thanks for the heads-up on that.  I found the standard FT boots have too low of an instep to be comfortable, and I find the cable buckles a PIA.  The Booter was a 2013 with the weird looking clear shell and yellow liner with all the printing on it...don;t care about that, I'm not looking at them while I'm skiing LOL.  Sounds like that boot could be an option, but I'll reserve judgement on all of this until tomorrow night when I get to compare with my boots and the Decendant.

And yes, I have wide feet so it sounds like the Hammer wouldn't be a very good fit for me.

 

Say hi to Philpug if you see him...I met him when he was still here in PA.  I'm the guy who brought him pastrami, he may remember that :D 

post #8 of 20
Did you find the Lange too narrow? That's only a 100mm last and the Booter is 102.

Not likely to see Phil this year, or at least this season. I had to miss SIA, Copper Mountain demos and the Gathering due to a busted collarbone, broken rib and a bruised sternum. Plan to get out for my first day since December 12 next Friday.
post #9 of 20
Thread Starter 

No, not too narrow.  But IIRC the booter did feel a bit wider across the ball of the foot.

 

Ouch...that sounds really painful!  And the pics from the gathering are giving me a serious case of powder envy...east coast conditions suck this year

post #10 of 20
Since the Lange didn't feel too narrow, I would say the Booter is probably too wide for your feet. If your heal was loose in the Lange, try to find a Head dealer and try the Vector EVO 120 or 130. It's a 100mm boot. We''ve been selling quite a few recreational Head boots partly because they seem to have terrific heal retention. The Hammer has the best heal retention of any boot I've ever owned
post #11 of 20
Thread Starter 

Then I will cross the booter off my list.  I'm really liking the Panterra, I will see how the Decendant compares.  Biggest problem with me tracking down a head dealer is I have a large store credit from selling off used stuff at the fall tent sale.  

post #12 of 20
Well, I was going to mention that the Vector EVO 130 comes with an actual Booster strap that is freaking awesome. Puts all powerstraps to shame and even a lot of the regular Booster straps. I took the powerstraps off my Hammer boots and replaced them with the Vector EVO 130 Booster strap and its like a whole new boot. But, you have other contraints.
post #13 of 20
I have alpine Dalbellos just to provoke confusion with all mountain. For me, an all mountain boot is one without or without tech binding inserts but with a walk mode. Essentially it's an alpine boot with a walk mode for side country excursions.

I'm a big fan of Dalbellos cabrio design. Makes getting in and out a breeze. Also, most Dabellos come with an adjustable ramp angle. I found this invaluable for my skiing stance. This feature alone is a reason to buy.

The Pantera comes in a range of flexes. But only the 120 comes with the optional Intuition liner. The Pantera also comes with a walk mode and I believe rubber/lugged inserts for side country ventures.
post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 

That's another thing I have on my current boots, booster straps.  The velcro wore out on the originals 7 or 8 years ago LOL.  I love the booster starps because you can get things nice and snug, but when you bang into uneven terrain, it allows better absorbtion.

post #15 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe strummer View Post

I have alpine Dalbellos just to provoke confusion with all mountain. For me, an all mountain boot is one without or without tech binding inserts but with a walk mode. Essentially it's an alpine boot with a walk mode for side country excursions.

I'm a big fan of Dalbellos cabrio design. Makes getting in and out a breeze. Also, most Dabellos come with an adjustable ramp angle. I found this invaluable for my skiing stance. This feature alone is a reason to buy.

The Pantera comes in a range of flexes. But only the 120 comes with the optional Intuition liner. The Pantera also comes with a walk mode and I believe rubber/lugged inserts for side country ventures.

The Panterra is actually a little more difficult than the full tilts, or even regular boots.  They seem to have a bit more "stuff" than the other Dalbellos with the cabrio deign.  I was reading about the ramp angle adjustment, looks like something I will have to play with a bit.  I also like the "walk" feature...I used to have Salomn 91E boots and loved being ableto release the upper cuff when I was in the lodge...allows your legs to relax a bit.

I have also seen that some of the features add a bit of weight...that's probably the only negative I have found with the boots.  Considering I'm planning to wear these until I'm in my 70's, that is a factor, albeit a minor one.  

post #16 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post

Park boots typically have a hard rubber zeppa rather than hard plastic and that's it. I saw the new design FTs at Copper Mountain last season after the SIA show, but didn't pay much attention to them since I was satisfied with my FT Classics. One thing to keep in mind about the Full Tilts is that the Intuition liner they use does not play well with a custom footbed because the sole is 9mm thick instead of the standard 2mm. Intuition liners made for Dalbello use a 2mm sole. If there's a Head dealer near you, contact them and see if they have the new Head Hammer or Thrasher. Both are cabrio boots. I have a Hammer 110 that I've been working on to make it fit, almost there, and it's a pretty stiff boot. They also make a 130 flex. It doesn't have an Intuition liner but the shell is heat moldable. But, since you like the booter you must ahve wide feet and the Hammer is a 98mm last.

I asked what you meant by all-mountain because just last week someone came into the shop looking for new boots and insisted they wanted "all-mountain" boots but had no idea what they meant. I suspect they saw an ad for some ski boot that used that term. The person bought boots that fit and that they could flex and that's what counts.

OK, I tried the Decendant and liked it better than the Dalbello.  But I did see what you meant about the thicker sole on the FT liner.  Now the question becomes, how to deal with that?  Putting my footbeds in gave way too tight of a fit. How much do you think the bottom of the liner will squeeze down when it is heat molded?  My footbeds are actually cobbled together from street shoe orthotics, hard plastic 3/4 length, with a top and bottom dense foam layers sandwiching them.  I could remove some of the material to thin them down, maybe take close to 1/4 inch off of them. 

I tried on the "6", do you have any knowledge if the "8" liner is different on the bottom? (I know its supposed to be a different liner, denser or stiffer foam but since I wasn't able to look at one I don't know about the bottom.)

My other option is a 2014 Lange 120XT, which fit nice. I can get them cheap enough to buy a new set of Intuition liners, or even remold my existing ones.  But I like the flex pattern of the FT, and the fact I can change the tongue out for a different flex and there are other options that can be swapped out.

 

Would much appreciate your thoughts on this.

post #17 of 20

The entire Descendant series is built on a 102mm last.  You said the Lange fit just fine and it's a 100mm last.  Have you considered going to see a good boot fitter?  I'm betting your foot is narrower than you think it is.  As for the bad design 9mm sole compressing during heat molding, forget it, it doesn't happen.

post #18 of 20
Thread Starter 

Hard to tell the competence of a bootfitter when you first meet them. Both people who measured my foot at this shop steered me to a wider boot.  My wife had her boot fitting done by Bill Haight (?) at Green Mountain Orthotic Labs, so that may be an option I should consider.  

Sounds like I have to forget about the Decendant..why in the world did they make the liner like that???

post #19 of 20
Intuition claims you don't need a footbed because the sole molds to your feet, but it doesn't provide any stability.
post #20 of 20
I bought Panterras with ID liners a week ago and spent last week skiing them at Lake Louise. Absolutely loved them. Stiffness is adjustable from about 110 up to 120, last is adjustable from 100mm to 102mm, and footbed angle can be adjusted as well (although my high instep limited that). If you have a weird foot like mine they are great!
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Does anyone have experience with Dalbello Panterra 120 or Full Tilt Descendant boots? Or FT "Booter" boot?