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Ski Team Cutting Line - Page 7

post #181 of 200

If the ski team is somehow affiliated with the mountain I have no problem with team members with their coach using the lesson line. 

 

As to the rest..... I was an evening supervisor at at a large midwestern area back in the mid 80s when management decided to allow snowboarders for the first time. The second year they were allowed the former race director and now my SSD, who was a fantastic racer and (I think rightly) felt that racing was the ultimate test of technical and physical ability, was complaining about how awful the snowboarders were and how much he wished they could again be banned. I was unable to keep my mouth shut and suggested that I would happily trade each racer on the hill for two snowboarders and in the long run it would be less trouble. Cue all the defense of racers found on this thread. 3 weeks later he came and said After watching the the whole scope of things he felt I was mostly right but suggested a 2 racers for 3 snowboards was a closer ratio.

 

Thing is, to the initial point of the thread, the racers would cut (or try to cut) lines even on lifts where there was no lesson lines. A particularly galling variation was on race days they would argue "I have to cut the line because my bib number is coming up" making me wonder why in the land of the 5 minute round trip did they not just wait? They would leave their skis scattered from one side of the lodge entrance to the other making a tripping hazard. They would bomb through restricted areas (including the primitive terrain park). Of particular annoyance to me were the ones who would bring there skis inside and tune them on the cafeteria tables. I would just like to point out none of these things are something to be jealous of. I will admit that I am at some level jealous of the total monomania that it takes to reach the top, but that same disregard is what makes for aggressive passing and inappropriate speed for conditions. As someone pointed out about a particular driver he wasn't a bad driver because he had accidents, it was all the people behind him that had them. I will also add that it was a tiny fraction of the racers doing this (except the congenital inability to use ski racks by racers or most coaches). Thing is if you are visible as a member of any group your behavior gets assigned to all members of that group. Once that stereotype exists it's hard to break, What I felt at the time was most of the complaints about snowboarders were really directed at the fact that here was a predominently adolescent male group that were unfamiliar with the ski area environment, who over time mellowed into the same ratio of good and bad behavior as the rest of the similarly aged general population. Race groups on the other hand have a higher level of driven, talented individuals and as such seem to have both a slightly higher percentage of well behaved and adjusted people and a much higher level of ego driven jackassery then their similar aged population at large.


Edited by Dave W - 2/5/16 at 2:48pm
post #182 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by UllrIsLord View Post


What rubs me the wrong way is when people observe bad behavior on the part of some individuals, and then generalize that to say that all people who are associated with them share the same bad qualities. I know from personal experience that there are so.e extremely polite, hard working and humble ski racing kids out there. Does that mean there are no race kids anywhere that misbehave? Of course not. But it's not fair to punish all the kids for the actions of some.

And you're not generalising in this very post about "people" who observe that some (whatever) could behave better in order to avoid creating a bad reputation for a greater group of (whatever).

We're human beings, we've evolved to take heuristic shortcuts. One fire burns us, we tend to expect that the next fire will do. Accordingly if an asshat in a BMW cuts us up on the highway we tend not to notice that lots of BMW drivers have been just fine if another BMW cuts us up again in short order. It might be unfair but we're all flawed that way.

Who's suggesting punishing good kids? At worst people are suggesting that kids who are part of a collective shouldn't get special privileges over the general public and if privileges exist maybe they should be subject to sanction if the collective can't meet a certain reasonable standard. It's hardly pushing for juvy for all.
post #183 of 200
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to generalize to all people. I know not all people call kids mean names just because they are involved in ski racing. I know some nice people who drive BMW too. It's just that bad behavior sticks out more than good behavior. All I'm saying is that when we catch ourselves using one of these heuristics we would do well to examine the case a bit more closely to determine if there really is something inherent in the class that leads to the individual phenomenon that we observe. In the case of the fire, there's a clear link to the burning, due to an exothermic oxidation or whatever so it follows that touching a fire will necessarily lead to getting burned and avoiding it makes sense. However assuming someone who drives a BMW is a jerk, is self-limiting and may deprive you of the company of a perfectly nice person who happens to appreciate German engineering.
post #184 of 200

:ahijack:

 

 

@fatbob Interesting.....

I too have  noticed more BMW drivers (not all BMW drivers) playing the I need to get ahead game at speed in traffic and am willing to be rude and take stupid chances to do so, than other car drivers.  I've noticed Volkswagen drivers tended to drive a bit faster than most other car drivers, but not to the point of being impolite, and not as much as the BMWs.   For a while drivers of cheap Korean cars seemed to be over-represented statistically in plain bad driving, and these cars were alerts for me to keep extra distance.

 

Ah generalizations and stereotypes, they are not random.

post #185 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

:ahijack:

 

 

@fatbob Interesting.....

I too have  noticed more BMW drivers (not all BMW drivers) playing the I need to get ahead game at speed in traffic and am willing to be rude and take stupid chances to do so, than other car drivers.  I've noticed Volkswagen drivers tended to drive a bit faster than most other car drivers, but not to the point of being impolite, and not as much as the BMWs.   For a while drivers of cheap Korean cars seemed to be over-represented statistically in plain bad driving, and these cars were alerts for me to keep extra distance.

 

Ah generalizations and stereotypes, they are not random.

Generalizations can be stereotypes or they can have facts and statistics behind them.  You maybe the safest driver in the world, but say you buy a Yellow Ford Mustang GT Convertable, then when you check out insurance, you curse that you are lumped in with the rest of the teen drivers who got this for sweet 16 and that keeps crashing and driving up the insurance rate.

post #186 of 200
Semi ski related anecdote. A buddy & I are about to cross the street late at night in Martigny, a city near Verbier where we've been skiing. A bunch of body kitted Evos and Scoobys burble rapidly round the corner. We step back from the kerb naturally, to a man the cars stop and allow us to cross even though it was probably a jaywalking spot. Their Swissness trumped their boy-racerness.
post #187 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbob View Post

Semi ski related anecdote. A buddy & I are about to cross the street late at night in Martigny, a city near Verbier where we've been skiing. A bunch of body kitted Evos and Scoobys burble rapidly round the corner. We step back from the kerb naturally, to a man the cars stop and allow us to cross even though it was probably a jaywalking spot. Their Swissness trumped their boy-racerness.

On the opposite side of the coin--try crossing a busy road in Rome. I was walking along a busy 8 lane street when the gates of the Quirinal opened and a group of carabinieri on motorcyles came out, followed by a marching band, followed by more carabinieri on foot, followed by a limousine, followed by more carabinieri on foot and then on motorcyles. The little parade crossed the road, stopping traffic, and went into the gate of another walled compound immediately across the road, after which traffic resumed. I was puzzled for a moment or two until I realized that that was the only safe way to cross the streer in Rome. BTW--if you find yourself in Italy--motorcyles have right of way over pedestrians and actually don't have to follow any traffic laws. I guess the theory is that motorcyles are dangerous enough that riders will ride safely without having to be told.

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled pissing match.

post #188 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbob View Post

Semi ski related anecdote. A buddy & I are about to cross the street late at night in Martigny, a city near Verbier where we've been skiing. A bunch of body kitted Evos and Scoobys burble rapidly round the corner. We step back from the kerb naturally, to a man the cars stop and allow us to cross even though it was probably a jaywalking spot. Their Swissness trumped their boy-racerness.


so you expected just to be able to cut the (traffic) line and keep the Scoobys waiting.....  seems like a sense of spoilt entitlement to me.......:D  :popcorn

post #189 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by tch View Post
 

I'm sorry to say that I also agree: no cutting.  The responses have developed a number of reasonable rationales.  I will also say that I find the response is not only logical (see raytseng's last post) but also fueled by a general antipathy towards race kids that many (agreed not ALL) have fostered among the public.  I believe raytseng has also said this best in his first response: 

 

"But the drama around this is because the ski teams are often one of the worst at ettiquette despite their skills. Besides cutting in on lift lines, they zip around and cut all the folks in the prep area near the lines weaving all the way through the corral then throwing the brakes on last second; and on the slopes cut off people on the slopes at speeds that those folks don't expect.  They also just leave the skis out in front of the lodges on the snow lined up as they can't be bothered to rack them like anybody else as that's what they do at the top of the course. 

They should be taught to be ambassadors for their team, but in reality they are still just children that are still in their peak narcissism phase."

 

I might add they are often disrespectful, loud, self-involved, and disruptive.  If so many race kids didn't behave like overly-entitled sh*ts, they might get a little bit more sympathy.  

 

 

 

I really hate to agree with this, but I must. Even - especially - outside of official training and race scenarios, ski team kids as a whole (you can identify them everywhere), scare me more than any other group on the mountain. I can avoid tourists. Kids that ski at a high level, feed of of one anothers' energy, are super competitive in groups, and like to show off? They really scare me. 

 

On the topic of cutting, I'm only OK with this when there's an actual race going on, and schedules need to be met. Otherwise, back of the line.

post #190 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post
 

Kids that ski at a high level, feed of of one anothers' energy, are super competitive in groups, and like to show off? They really scare me. 

 

You must not have kids.

post #191 of 200

And must never have been a kid.

post #192 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post

I really hate to agree with this, but I must. Even - especially - outside of official training and race scenarios, ski team kids as a whole (you can identify them everywhere), scare me more than any other group on the mountain. I can avoid tourists. Kids that ski at a high level, feed of of one anothers' energy, are super competitive in groups, and like to show off? They really scare me. 
Seriously, ??? A bunch of Internet skiers scares me way more... I suggest you take your observations to TGR, they will be much more sympathetic to your point of view.
post #193 of 200
Didn't realize it was an EpicSki felony to express concern about about groups of ski team kids darting around me like bats out of hell. Apologies. I see the the thread had moved on anyway.
post #194 of 200
Bummer ski.com, or pissandmoanski.com?
post #195 of 200

TGR is starting to look like a sane and welcoming place by comparison.

post #196 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Bummer ski.com, or pissandmoanski.com?

:rotflmao:

post #197 of 200

It's not the young racers that you need to worry about.. it's the old freedoggers...

 

post #198 of 200

Hard to believe no one was hurt filming that.

post #199 of 200
The most cringe-worthy "chinese downhill" moment for my money is when Jim McMullen skied into the underpass wall in "Downhill Racer".

After watching that I was OK hanging in the back on "race to the bottom" runs.
post #200 of 200
We have a Chinese downhill every year. The Pole Paddle Pedal. I ran the Alpine leg once. Was in my daughters age group. You run uphill to your skis. Click in and go. Those kids 35 yrs old kick my ass even the women.:-( I was literally the last skier to click in. But I was the first to cross the finish line. That race training came in handy.
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