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Thinking of getting Kendo 163cm...

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

Hello,

 

I am thinking of getting Kendo 163 cm. I am mostly on groomed area 70% of the time. Probably ski mostly on west coast (live in AZ, skiing in AZ and visit to Colorado and Utah for skiing).

I am old school skier.

 

I am 164 cm in height and 160 lbs. Is this good choice for blue and some black skier? 

If Kendo is not for me, please recommend me one with binding mounting point.

 

I probably not going to buy another ski for long time (5 years?).

post #2 of 29
I am the exact same size. I spent 3 days on the 170. I decided that for the north east the 163 would be more versatile. While the 163 is more maneuverable, I always thought it lacked too much of the big turn top end stability. With that said, I concluded that I would definitely prefer the 170 if out west.

I'm also an old school style skier and the 170 Kendo was receptive to that technique while still being a thrill. It definitely liked speed, the more speed the more fun.

Both skis were fun. To cook this down I'd say if you like speed get the 170. Either ski will help you get better and practice cleaner techniques.
post #3 of 29

If your old school...may be think about taking a lesson on the new Kendo's, you may be surprised how good they are.

post #4 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post

If your old school...may be think about taking a lesson on the new Kendo's, you may be surprised how good they are.
Yes, definitely. I should have added that it's essentially a wide carving ski, and rewards accordingly.

Just to be clear, what version Kendo are you considering?
post #5 of 29
Thread Starter 

Thanks for sharing your experience on Kendo who has same size as me, vwr1vwf.

I guess you are able to bend the ski and have fun with it. (store sales person told me that it would be hard to bend the ski with my size).

 

I read one post mount it at +2.5 for all mountain.

 

What is your mounting point? 

 

 

Considering the 2016 model. If 2015 model is still good then I will consider getting the 2015.

 

The ski that I have is one that I bought 25 year ago which probably not good for carving technique.

Now that I am thinking of getting one with new style of skiing (carving enabled), I should learn how to carve in order to get my moneys worth of enjoyment.

 

I saw the youtube for carving lessen.

I probably try them on next visit to slope with rental ski before making decision to take lessen with new ski.

post #6 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloppyDisk View Post
 

Thanks for sharing your experience on Kendo who has same size as me, vwr1vwf.

I guess you are able to bend the ski and have fun with it. (store sales person told me that it would be hard to bend the ski with my size).

 

I read one post mount it at +2.5 for all mountain.

 

What is your mounting point? 

 

 

Considering the 2016 model. If 2015 model is still good then I will consider getting the 2015.

 

The ski that I have is one that I bought 25 year ago which probably not good for carving technique.

Now that I am thinking of getting one with new style of skiing (carving enabled), I should learn how to carve in order to get my moneys worth of enjoyment.

 

I saw the youtube for carving lessen.

I probably try them on next visit to slope with rental ski before making decision to take lessen with new ski.


How old are your boots ?

 

To get the most out of new skis, the boots need to be fairly new.

post #7 of 29

I'm mounted on the line on my 2014 Kendos. (camber version).  Given I like to rail turns, don't see any reason to go +.

As a FYI, I also take these to the park and hit all the kickers, not as forgiving on landings as park skis, but still very capable. Even with the on the line mount (which is more rearward for sure), I'm able to spin on jumps just fine (a slight change to balance in the air compared to true center mount) but no problems with 3s, 540s, etc.  

 

However the real reason one would buy the Kendo is for it's ability to rail high speed turns and crush through crud.  I'd think a more centered mount would diminish this.

post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloppyDisk View Post

Thanks for sharing your experience on Kendo who has same size as me, vwr1vwf.
I guess you are able to bend the ski and have fun with it. (store sales person told me that it would be hard to bend the ski with my size).

I read one post mount it at +2.5 for all mountain.

What is your mounting point? 



Considering the 2016 model. If 2015 model is still good then I will consider getting the 2015.

The ski that I have is one that I bought 25 year ago which probably not good for carving technique.
Now that I am thinking of getting one with new style of skiing (carving enabled), I should learn how to carve in order to get my moneys worth of enjoyment.

I saw the youtube for carving lessen.
I probably try them on next visit to slope with rental ski before making decision to take lessen with new ski.
I now realize that when you said " old school skier", you really mean it, and that's awesome. It's all about you having a good time.

I would then only recommend the new 2016 Kendo. It is much more receptive to skidding and slarving, which I think is fun by the way, but it makes me lazy. That is why out of all three versions of the Kendo I find the second a good balance for me.

As far as the mount, in regard to the second gen (2013,14 and 15) I have experimented with the boot center. I concluded that "0" is pretty dialed in already and is where the sweet spot is. I imagine that is where the reps mounted the 2016 too, and that felt fine also. I did not get an accurate feel for the 2016 because all they had was the the 177. I did think it was very loose feeling until really laid over. With that I think it will be perfect for you in 170cm, and a good ski to experiment on and not get punished for mistakes or lazyness.

I wanted to really spend more time on that ski, and would think 170cm to be perfect for me. On paper it should provide maneuverability and the top end I want.

I'm back to the drawing board for a daily driver all mountain ski. I unexpectedly got some 2016 Volkl Mantras for Christmas. Having a 90mm and a 100mm waisted ski just seems foolish. Although they are so different it is almost justifying.
Edited by vwr1vwf - 1/29/16 at 2:01pm
post #9 of 29
Thread Starter 

It is 25 years old...Bought it at same time as ski..

It got cracked about 3 weeks ago. I order the boots since the local shop doesn't have the size that I need.

post #10 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloppyDisk View Post
 

It is 25 years old...Bought it at same time as ski..

It got cracked about 3 weeks ago. I order the boots since the local shop doesn't have the size that I need.


Are you telling us your 25 year old boots cracked  and you just ordered new boots without trying them on ?

 

 

 

Have you been talking to a boot fitter about which boots you should be in ? Different boots fit different feet better then others. Boots are the most important part.  

post #11 of 29
Thread Starter 

I ordered the size and brand that local boot fitter recommended. They didn't had the correct size.

The store had a boot one size larger then my size which I tried and liked it.

I have the navicular bone issue that needs to be customized. I order the Salomon X-Pro.

I will have to bring the boots to them for customer fitting. 

I just hope everything works out okay..:-)

post #12 of 29
I am 5'10 and 160lbs and just bought the 170 Kendo and absolutely love them. Unless you've never skied before or unless you are professional skier on the World Cup circuit, it's really hard to find any fault with this ski. Definitely a top 3 ski when it comes to all mountain / all around ski.
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloppyDisk View Post
 

I ordered the size and brand that local boot fitter recommended. They didn't had the correct size.

The store had a boot one size larger then my size which I tried and liked it.

I have the navicular bone issue that needs to be customized. I order the Salomon X-Pro.

I will have to bring the boots to them for customer fitting. 

I just hope everything works out okay..:-)


Would you mind giving us the name of the shop that will be doing the boot fitting ? Its very important that you get a great boot fitter.

 

Just saying, most of us high level skiers are in a boot one size smaller then are feet. The boot fitter works magic. My Lange's are hard to get on, sometimes cut the top of my foot. But they feel so wonderful when I'm in them.  I've learned to keep my boots in the heated boot bag on colder days now before I put them on, keeps them softer when I open them and slide my foot in. No more biting.

post #14 of 29
Thread Starter 

I went to skipro in camelback. But I found one near my place in Mesa. I will go to Mesa for customization.

post #15 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by naja View Post

I am 5'10 and 160lbs and just bought the 170 Kendo and absolutely love them. Unless you've never skied before or unless you are professional skier on the World Cup circuit, it's really hard to find any fault with this ski. Definitely a top 3 ski when it comes to all mountain / all around ski.

Thank you naja for sharing your experience. I am 5'4" and 160lbs (15cm shorter) I am leaning toward 163. 

 

Do you mind telling where do you usually ski? (I do comfortably ski on blue and some easy one black diamond).

 

My next concern is whether one can bend the 163 same as on 170. (in process of finding this information on google)

The shorter the plate will be more stiffer than longer plate considering same brand/model. <-- May be I am overthinking.

If manufacture proportionally adjust the stiffness from 170 to 163, then I think I should be okay with 163. (demo is not possible)

post #16 of 29

I think at 5'4" the 163 is the way to go. I am a solid intermediate skier and the 170s are bit much for me at times in terms of being able to bend them, but 90% of the time they are perfect. I bought mine from Pinnacle Ski & Sports in Stowe, VT. They often have some really great deals. Check out their online store www.skiessentials.com

post #17 of 29
Have you actually skied the Kendo? It has tip and tail rocker so it will ski short, very short. And the 163 is probably stiffer than the 170. I know the Volkl addicts can't recommend anything else, but I ski a lot of different skis and I sell skis and I think there are better skis for your purpose. If you've tried them and like them, disregard all of this
Edited by mtcyclist - 2/2/16 at 10:49am
post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post

Have you actually skied the Kendo? It has tip and tail rocker so it will ski short, very short. And the 163 is probably stiffer than the 170. I know the Volkl addicts can't recommend anything else, but I ski a lot of different skis and I sell skisl and I think there are better skis for your purpose. If you've tried them and like them, disregard all of this


Hey, Floppy, you may want to pick this guy's brain. He's been around here for a while.

post #19 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post

Have you actually skied the Kendo? It has tip and tail rocker so it will ski short, very short. And the 163 is probably stiffer than the 170. I know the Volkl addicts can't recommend anything else, but I ski a lot of different skis and I sell skisl and I think there are better skis for your purpose. If you've tried them and like them, disregard all of this

 

 

163 is probably stiffer than the 170 --- This is what I was worried about. I guess manufacturer doesn't proportionally adjust the stiffness when making longer or shorter ski.

No. I have never skied the Kendo since there is no demo in my area and local ski shop doesn't have one as demo. 

Can you recommend other options at my skill level and weight?

 

I ski the old school way. I am willing to learn carving. So, I would like to get one that does both.

post #20 of 29
By "old school way" do you mean boots touching and/or reverse shoulder?
post #21 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
 


Hey, Floppy, you may want to pick this guy's brain. He's been around here for a while.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post

By "old school way" do you mean boots touching and/or reverse shoulder?

I mean I lean forward to make turn.. not carving. (if what I think is the carving...)

I have never heard of carving when I took lessen to ski in 1984 and 1985 in southern part of West Germany (Garmisch ski resort), 2 weeks each year. 

Never took a lessen after that.

Maybe carving technique was there but was not at that level to heard/learn them. :-)

Maybe ski technology is so advanced that make carving more easier. 

 

I am more comfortable turning by putting weight on the front of the ski.

Back then, they recommend the ski to be about 15~20cm higher than my height.

As I am getting older and muscle is not cooperating with my brain, longer ski is hard to control at high speed. I often take a break while coming down the slope.

Now that I am in the market and excited to learn the carving, I would like to get a ski that can cover front side ski/carving as well as fun to ride.

 

I am more cautious skier(blue) but still wants to have fun with some level of speed (black if I feel it is manageable).

post #22 of 29

Do you ski with your boots basically touching one another or not?  That is what I need to know.

post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 

Yes. my boots are basically touching when I am skiing. 

post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloppyDisk View Post
 

Yes. my boots are basically touching when I am skiing. 

This presents a problem with many modern skis.  If you ski that way, the tips and often tails are going to be banging together, not only causing damage to the skis but also making it somewhat more likely you'll fall.  The majority of modern skis under say 95-100mm waist have relatively short turn radii, often around 14-15m.  What you need is a longer radius maybe around 17-18m.  Buy you also want a short ski which only compounds the issue because the shorter the ski the smaller the radius.  If you wanted a powder ski it's easy to find a long radius, even for shorter skis but you want a one ski quiver, something around 90-100mm underfoot.  The only skis I know of with a longer radius in that width range are the Armada Invictus 89Ti and 95Ti and the Armada ARVTi.  

 

ARVTi,           168cm, 97mm waist, 18.5m radius

Invictus 89Ti, 171cm, 87mm waist, 17m radius

Invictus 95Ti, 167cm, 93mm waist, 18.5m radius

 

All three of these skis, as well as almost every other current ski, has at least some tip rocker and some, like these also have some tail rocker.  Rocker makes the ski feel shorter because there is less base in contact with the snow.  As an example, I'm 5'7", 150 pounds and my powder/soft snow ski is an ON3P Billy Goat, 186cm which is pretty long, but the ski has tip and tail rocker and the effective edge is only 140cm.  I can turn this ski on a dime when I need to.  Except for an older pair of SL race skis, my shortest ski is 168cm and has a tiny amount of early rise in the tip.  The other skis I use are 170cm and 177cm.  Short skis or skis that ski very short will be squirrelly on hardpack.  They will be easy to turn, but they will also be pretty unstable if you ski very fast.  But there are also other factors that influence stability at speed beside length, stiffness being very important.  For skis with rocker, I think you really need to go longer, like mid 170s.  What I really recommend you do is demo something with tip and tail rocker in a mid to high 160cm length and also demo the same ski in a mid 170 length.  You can't appreciate how rocker effects stability and turning until you experience it first hand.

 

And almost any ski can carve.  I own and ski six pairs of skis with waists ranging from 68mm to 116mm and I can carve on every one.  Narrower skis are better because they're easier to get on edge and keep them there.

 

Edit to add one more ski, the ON3P Prester, 171cm, 86mm waist, 18.8m radius, twin tip with no rocker 


Edited by mtcyclist - 2/3/16 at 5:37am
post #25 of 29

FloppyDisk, You've come to the right place, You can watch video's on line, or read the articles by Mike Rogan in Ski Magazine, they will help. But the best advise is take a lesson when you get the new skis and boots. Let the person at the ski school desk know what you want to do, hopefully they will guide you to a great instructor.

 

There are a few stance changes you need to buy into. If you want to change your skiing and learn it will happen. It's mostly in your head. You need to want it. I've been in multi day lessons where at the end those who didn't have an open mind hadn't changed there stance.

 

Once you get to the higher level, skiing is very easy. I kind of liken it to riding a bike down hill. All the steering is made by small adjustments. Its that easy. Getting to that point takes commitment and practice. Watch what the kids on the race team are doing with there feet and lower body.

 

There's a teaching forum for those discussions. Though that topic pops up in a lot threads. 

post #26 of 29
Max is correct about lessons and mindset. I started skiing in 1962 and never had a lesson until about 10 years ago. I had every bad habit imaginable. Over the course of four seasons I unlearned the bad habits under the direction of two instructors. I became a certified instructor and now at the age of 71, I ski harder, faster and better than I ever did. Prior to 10 years ago there were only two single black runs at Red Lodge Mountain that I would ski, now I ski it all and spend most of my time off-piste on the blacks and double blacks. Anyone can do it if they have the commitment.
Edited by mtcyclist - 2/3/16 at 6:05am
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post

Max is correct about lessons and mindset. I started skiing in 1962 and never had a lesson until about 10 years ago. I had every bad habit imaginable. Over the course of four seasons I unlearned the bad habits until the direction of two instructors. I became a certified instructor and now at the age of 71, I ski harder, faster and better than I ever did. Prior to 10 years ago there were only two single black runs at Red Lodge Mountain that I would ski, now I ski it all and spend most of my time off-piste on the blacks and double blacks. Anyone can do it if they have the commitment.


Thanks for the back up.  I cant say enough how much fun I have skiing now, I'm 61 and like you now ski harder, faster then I have in the past. Its feels so great to be cranked over in a high speed carve, feel the downhill ski loose edge hold, be able to instantly transfer a little more weight to the inside ski finish the turn before you realize what your body just did. It happens without you even thinking about. Because your traveling so fast your mind can't think that fast, the muscles know what to do.

 

Trust me take a lesson or a few day clinic and practice. Its such a great feeling to ski non-stop top to bottom at high speed and get back on the lift and do it again. The bones carry the weight so the muscles don't get as tired.

post #28 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
 


Thanks for the back up.  I cant say enough how much fun I have skiing now, I'm 61 and like you now ski harder, faster then I have in the past. Its feels so great to be cranked over in a high speed carve, feel the downhill ski loose edge hold, be able to instantly transfer a little more weight to the inside ski finish the turn before you realize what your body just did. It happens without you even thinking about. Because your traveling so fast your mind can't think that fast, the muscles know what to do.

 

Trust me take a lesson or a few day clinic and practice. Its such a great feeling to ski non-stop top to bottom at high speed and get back on the lift and do it again. The bones carry the weight so the muscles don't get as tired.

Thanks to all of you, especially Max and mtcyclist for all the knowledge/suggestions and tips. I will consider the recommendation on the ski selection and try to demo if possible/available.

 

Yes. I agreed on taking a lesson, as I take a golf lesson once in a while to get adjusted and practice.

I will look for a lesson session soon.

Thanks again for all the help.

post #29 of 29

Your welcome.

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