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Telling students to lift their toes up - Page 7

post #181 of 193
It is actually more complex when we add zeppa and delta angles. Not to mention slope angles. Perspectives and frames of reference also add into the mix. As does forward momentum, virtual bumps and how the direction of the skier changes how we feel the slope angle.
In a perpendicular to the fall line aspect we have level skis but each is at a different elevation. As we turn towards the fall line the tips drop below the feet and the feet drop below the tails. So things like fore-aft balance and lateral balance facing down the hill is going to change. Then as we turn across the hill it changes back. Add the relative speed of the body and higher velocity of the skis (v=td) and it all gets even more complex. Drag must also be considered, both from the ski/snow interface and air resistance. Suddenly the simple task and how we articulate our joints during a turn becomes far more complex than the livingroom dorsi flex model. Or the often overused and randomly applied mantra based sound bytes.
There simply isn't a readers digest version that would apply. Broad based advice simply cannot be specific enough for it to be valid outside of a narrow range of circumstances. Nor do plug and play progressions allow for enough variability to be of much worth. It's why Tog's insisting I share that sort of universal model simply does't work. A workshop where we explore and experiment with a hundred variations gets us through only a hundred variation. More exist and that willingness to explore another hundred variations is a quality you see among the very best.
Go out and begin that journey, wirk with a ciach you trust, demand they do more than repeat dogma, make them expand on their opinions in depth.
Dig deeper and the detail will eventually merge into a comprehensive understanding of your skiing. No one elses will be quite the same though, so try not to speak in absolutes to others because something worked for you. In another week your skiing will change again and some of those discoveries will morph into a different thing. And that is the ultimate beauty of the sport, change is the only constant and even that rate of change varies on a daily, monthly, and yearly basis. Stay open to it and the sport will alway present you new challenges!
Edited by justanotherskipro - 2/19/16 at 5:30pm
post #182 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

So here's a good one that can help shoe how relying on this can take away the front of the ski. For those who play tennis, try lifting your toes to your shin while receiving serve.

On snow, for those who can do a reasonable version of the up and over, or Get Over It, drill, try lifting your toes and see how it makes you late on the drill.
Sweet. You serve, I return, you shank while running to the net, I slam one straight at your junk. I'll guarantee your toes lift.

Edit: I forgot the winky...just fun with a minor point
Edited by Tip Ripply - 2/19/16 at 6:24pm
post #183 of 193
I hate to call-out Bob, but it might be helpful for everyone to see how this whole foot/ankle thing may relate to the "Infinity" movements. ( with snow conditions considered for a bonus)
post #184 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tip Ripply View Post

Sweet. You serve, I return, you shank while running to the net, I slam one straight at your junk. I'll guarantee your toes lift.

Edit: I forgot the winky...just fun with a minor point

Getting nutted wasn't the first thing that the movement brought to my mind, but it does sort of bear out it not being an athletic movement pattern. Seriously though, receive serve a few times while trying it. See what happens to your return.
post #185 of 193
Haha. You need to be athletic to "protect". Be ready.

I hear you though, I'll be looking for the ball under a Beemer in the parking-lot.
post #186 of 193
Not sure why standing flatfooted to receive serve and only raising our toes would be analogus to foot usage in skiing. Nor is it how I would go about prepping for a return. A forward step prior to split-stepping as the server strikes the ball makes a lot more sense. Additionally giving me a crotch high volley is a pretty easy put away, you would probably have more luck trying a passing shot, in spite of changing the direction of the ball.

It does raise the same question about why we keep returning to thinking about isolated movements verses a combination of movements and how fine motor move contribute to the overall task. Fine motor moves compliment and refine what we did with gross motor moves not the other way around. I thought we established this as common ground a while back.
post #187 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Not sure why standing flatfooted to receive serve and only raising our toes would be analogus to foot usage in skiing. Nor is it how I would go about prepping for a return. A forward step prior to split-stepping as the server strikes the ball makes a lot more sense. Additionally giving me a crotch high volley is a pretty easy put away, you would probably have more luck trying a passing shot, in spite of changing the direction of the ball.

It does raise the same question about why we keep returning to thinking about isolated movements verses a combination of movements and how fine motor move contribute to the overall task. Fine motor moves compliment and refine what we did with gross motor moves not the other way around. I thought we established this as common ground a while back.

An overhead slam at your crotch is an easy volley? Damn, your middle name must be Borg. Ha.

I always play tennis either flat-footed or in elf shoes with my toes curled up, don't you? Can you imagine playing in ski boots? A YouTube classic waiting to happen. wink.gif
post #188 of 193
Serves are serves, overheads are overheads. Neither have a thing to do with skiing, or pulling up the toes while skiing.
post #189 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Serves are serves, overheads are overheads. Neither have a thing to do with skiing, or pulling up the toes while skiing.

 

Seeing the impact of pulling up the toes on the ability to transfer balance, and critically transfer balance across the inside ball of foot (which is skiing's sweet spot, not further back) can have a lot to do with understanding what pulling up the toes might do to skiing.

 

BTW, I wasn't mentioning serving or overheads, I was mentioning performing the movement in question while receiving serve, and that people then contemplate how it hinders movement.  It doesn't make tennis skiing, but it does provide a readily accessible example to anyone who plays of what that movement can do, with that example providing a discrete setup within which to try the movement.  It involves transfer of balance from one side of the foot to the other, and fore-aft balance transfer, and the hindering of each of those things.  With all the discussion of gait mechanics amongst ski instructors...well, a gait's a gait.

 

Certainly doing Up and Over while pulling the toes up is more on point, as it is done on snow and really zeros in on the body parts in question.  

post #190 of 193
I got that, receiving serve well doesn't include flatfooted ready stances though. To get on your balls of your feet in a split step you need a little momentum first. Thus allowing you to preload the legs to spring in whatever direction you must.
Beyond that the alway on the balls of the feet saying implies stance variations that take you off the forefoot would be errors. When in fact our stance will move around front to back and side to side as the body and feet move along their seperate paths.
post #191 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

I got that, receiving serve well doesn't include flatfooted ready stances though. ...

 

[Google Federer receiving serve for images of Fed, Nadal etc. in flatfooted ready stances]

 

 

Of course, Nadal's return of serve needs to be reworked, but not because of his ready stance.  Regarding lifting toes to shins, this was not however intended to be something that would help the return.


Edited by CTKook - 2/21/16 at 12:06pm
post #192 of 193

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Edited by CTKook - 2/21/16 at 12:06pm
post #193 of 193
I watched the link,Federer returning serve in super slow motion...
...each and every example he split steps as the server strikes the ball. Waiting for the server to toss the ball cannot be construed to be more than waiting between points. Once the server starts their service motion the returner needs to be moving.
Standing flatfooted, or rocking laterally prior to the toss is meaningless if you are static as the ball is struck.
In the end it still comes down to understanding the complimentary nature of foot and toe usage. In isolation fine motor moves cannot compensate for bad gross motor movement errors. But when combined with good gross motor moves the accuracy and touch from those fine motor moves raise the performance level from ordinary to outstanding.
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